| 6:24 pm on Sep 20, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Google paying per user. Excellent. Another hit for I.E. Another site putting google default search up. Potentially set up for Google to buy Opera.
In fact, Opera has a hidden ace in the hole. Put yourself in the shoes of Management of MS, Google and Yahoo right now. Not to mention any cash rich wannabes.
There are 3 browsers in play. FF...but it's free forever. Opera. Internet Explorer. Google is most likely building another one. They have a lock on the FF developers. What move do you make in each player's shoes?
If I'm Google, buy Opera now. Even to make sure Yahoo doesn't. Nor a third party. The technology and developers to build a kick ass replacement for MS.
If I'm Yahoo! But Opera NOW. Gives me an in overnight into the market.
If I'm MS, buy Opera NOW. Just so Google and Yahoo! don't.
If I'm a big money wannabe. Buy Opera.
The market price for Opera should be sky high right now. They should be able to sell for much greater than their value may appear to be worth on the market.
Opera going Open Source? Not likely. And not a smart move.
This is going to be fun.
| 6:26 pm on Sep 20, 2005 (gmt 0)|
yea, just installed it, i like the aesthetics of it.
is there any way for example just increase the zoom on text not the graphics?
| 12:33 am on Sep 21, 2005 (gmt 0)|
So now it's Google spyware!
| 1:21 am on Sep 21, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Post your Opera questions over here:
| 1:23 am on Sep 21, 2005 (gmt 0)|
> Google is most likely building another one.
I'm going to continue to walk out on the limb and say Google is *not* working on a browser, but rather building GoogleBot 4.0.
| 2:44 am on Sep 21, 2005 (gmt 0)|
thegreatpretender, if you don't feel comfortable editing the search.ini file by hand, search for a program called OpSed.
| 5:33 am on Sep 21, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Thanks RammsteinNicCage! I tried to edit it manually but didn't work, the search engines didn't change. Try Opsed now.
Sorry Brett for posting questions here.
| 6:02 am on Sep 21, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|I'm going to continue to walk out on the limb and say Google is *not* working on a browser, but rather building GoogleBot 4.0. |
Brett - You took the words right out of my mouth. I've been guessing that, because of css, etc, Google wants to get a sense of what a page looks like when it spiders. I've been wondering whether they'd go so far as to add OCR for graphics.
| 11:44 am on Sep 21, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Aren't we a fickle bunch to jump ship again so quick? Now, I have had lots of fun with Opera, from using the browser to buying their ads, and don't get me wrong - it is a good browser - but sooner or later, webmasters are going to have to stop jumping from flavour of the month to flavour of the week and buckle down with a set of tools they feel comfortable with.
I think this tendency to jump ship is quite am American one (it's certainly not Scandinavian) - a bi-product of the disposable age. New credit card with the low introductory rate - new search engine - new car... but the disposable approach is certainly not a phenomenon originating from Europe - and especially not central Europe. There, things are built - in the main - to last. The cars, the houses... and the relationships.
Is Opera fatser than IE or FF? sure. Is it BETTER? I think people should consider what they are giving up before they jump ship again. Do you really want Google to know everything about everyone? maybe... but at what point do you move the focus of outrage from Microsoft to Google in the Big Brother stakes?
Do you really want to stop the only serious challenger to IE6 in its tracks, by splitting an already meagre market share onto two?
Do you really want to spend your days looking at your sites in a different browser than your customers are using?
I am not saying don't use Opera. I am saying don't be so fickle when you change your allegiences - do it with a better reason than because it is Brett's favourite. He knows how to wield it - most of us mortals will never use it properly.
My alternate perspective :)
| 11:59 am on Sep 21, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|My alternate perspective :) |
A very correct perspective!
| 1:00 pm on Sep 21, 2005 (gmt 0)|
chadhasoftware, since when is Opera adware?
| 2:00 pm on Sep 21, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|Do you really want to spend your days looking at your sites in a different browser than your customers are using? |
No, I want to spend my days using a browser that doesn't get in my way and let's me customize it to the way I work.
I do, however, use Firefox to check pages while I develop them, and then after the initial coding I'll double-check them in Opera and IE (and Mac versions as well). Firefox's Web Developer tools are very useful and don't really have an equivalent in Opera.
But for everyday browsing? Opera wins hands down.
| 3:36 pm on Sep 21, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Opera is nice. I enjoy the tabs, I like the style & window dressing, I love how I can switch CSS on and off easily to see structure and styling glitches.
now I hope they fix all the JS bugs.
free or not, Opera is and shall continue to be my 3rd choice after IE and FF.
| 3:44 pm on Sep 21, 2005 (gmt 0)|
> I can switch CSS on and off easily to see structure and styling glitches.
and it points out search engine "fun" like nothing else out there. Just a g and/or control-g and you can reveal the entire visible page of text :-) It is the best spider simulator out there...
| 5:22 pm on Sep 21, 2005 (gmt 0)|
In 8.5 it's shift-g. Somewhere recently they changed some of the keyboard shortcuts.
| 5:59 pm on Sep 21, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Based on the bugs I encountered, I still think it's overpriced ;)
| 6:55 pm on Sep 21, 2005 (gmt 0)|
somehow FF feels comparitively solid. There are CSS issues in Opera.
I also find it's handling of things like Find, Tabs, etc. a bit immature.
Ok to have some fun, but not for everyday heavy use.
| 11:06 pm on Sep 21, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|Do you really want Google to know everything about everyone? maybe... but at what point do you move the focus of outrage from Microsoft to Google in the Big Brother stakes? |
If this is a target for opera versus firefox. The only issue I see here is that opera places
to your search query if you use the built in search function. Firefox does much the same in its built search function. You can easily edit the search.ini file for opera to fix this. And there are ways to remove the client string for firefox as well.
| 12:14 am on Sep 22, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|Firefox's Web Developer tools are very useful and don't really have an equivalent in Opera. |
Opera is its own flavor of browser - the GUI is so customizable it's almost scary, and the usability enhancements can make it seem a little odd at first glance. But even though I have a rather heavily "loaded" version of FireFox, I still gravitate to Opera all the time. Just the native RSS integration keeps me smiling.
|find it's handling of things like Find, Tabs, etc. a bit immature. |
Funny, because I find exactly the opposite to b e true. Opera was one the very first, if not THE first, browser to use tabs ... and I would much rather have this implementation than any other I've seen. Even with extra Greasemonkey help, I still can't get Firefox to be as comfortable for me.
One small example - close a tab in Opera and the last USED tab is visible. Close a tab in Firefox and it goes down the line in order of when the tabs were opened, not when you last used them. A small usability touch that tends to save time.
| 6:17 am on Sep 22, 2005 (gmt 0)|
This may just be because this is the wrong day for me to be trying new software, (tired, burnt out, ornery, curmudgeonly, seriously not looking forward to finishing eight more days in a 14 day straight work schedule...) - but Opera just didn't give me that first glance "Wow" that made me want to switch from FF.
For one, I've heavily customized FF to the way I browse. Sure, Opera may have the ability to be customized to the same level, but do I really want to put the effort into it? After putting 2 solid years into using FF and modding it to my needs?
I need a good reason to switch, and nothing is jumping up and grabbing me.
Will I use Opera? Yes, in the same way I've been using opera for a while. To test out pages for compatibility. The ad-supported version used to work just fine for that. But nothing about the ad-supported version made me want to rush out and drop a dime to pay for it. Now that it doesn't have ads, it is merely less annoying to compatibility test pages with.
Will I recommend it to others?
Probably. I've turned a lot of people onto FF over the past year, and it's had a ripple effect. Many, if not most, of the people who I've switched over to FF, have gone on to get others to change. I'll now add Opera to my list of recommendations for people who are sick to death of IE security issues. "Try FF or Opera - they're both free and really great browsers. Just take the one you like best."
Do I think Opera will gain market share in the same way FF did? Not likely. Opera will be a distant third to IE and FF for months, if not years, to come. IE will continue to dominate, FF will be the perpetual underdog contender, and Opera will be the whispered about dark horse in the corner. IMHO, of course ;)
A note on security through obscurity:
If it works, work it. IE is the big flaming target in a neon skirt, and will remain so as long as it remains the dominant browser. Malware writers will go for market share every time.
If, eventually, we were to see an even split between 3 browsers, we would see an overall increase in web security. Any given malware would only be able to take 1/3 of the market, and thus have a greatly reduced impact. The only difference would be in malware that was browser independant, and would attack something all the browsers have in common. J2RE comes to mind, as MS phases out its "special" version of Java and everyone moves towards Sun's version.
On the whole, glad to see Opera make this very bold move. It won't change my choice of browser, but it's nice to see 2 decently funded alternatives to the market dominator. A three way horse race is much more fun than a 2 horse race. Now if Konqueror can get its act in gear, we might see a chance at a standards compliant web.
| 3:39 pm on Sep 22, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Opera is the best Internet suite around. I've been using Opera since version 7.5, I just love it :)
| 6:06 pm on Sep 22, 2005 (gmt 0)|
I always liked Opera and even if I'm an Firefox addict and loyal user I will start giving more time to Opera now.
I don't think more browsers would be a problem for us web developers, if they implement web standards correctly that should be a good thing, in fact that's why standards exist in the first place, right?
| 6:13 pm on Sep 22, 2005 (gmt 0)|
WOW - checkout the new Opera homepage...
| 6:44 pm on Sep 22, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Saw it earlier.
Brett got me onto Opera and I customized it and got used to it. Took awhile for me to switch to FF but the Adblock and everyone talking about it finally got me there. Plus I knew that I needed to know FF as a developer. Slowly stopped using Opera. Sigh. Now I have yet more work.
I am happy for Opera though. Chatted with one of their developers a couple times and they are very sharp guys.
Thought I'd see more people commenting on the value of Opera and speculating on whether Google Microsoft Yahoo or a wildcard might be interested to buy. Even if Google is not planning to build a browser (which I still maintain will happen)....
Anyone else care to comment on Opera's market value?
| 6:50 am on Sep 23, 2005 (gmt 0)|
It's not just that Opera is a kick-ass browser. It's mail client is brilliant. It's more than a browser. Almost the only thing I miss is an organizer built in.
It's a mail client, rss reader, contact handler, bittorrent client and irc client.
Close a page in Opera? open it again from the trashcan.
Different views, small screen rendering, zoom pages, use on any OS.
I don't use the google search box. I just type "g whatever" in the adress bar.
If I want to folow a link thats not clickable; just doubleclick-rightclick-gotourl.
| 7:53 am on Sep 23, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Aggghhh :( Canvas width is still a function of page height due to the switching in and out of the vertical scroll bar. YUK!
| 8:21 am on Sep 23, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|More than one million people have downloaded the Opera browser in the two days since Opera announced it was dropping the ad banner and going completely free. |
The download rate doubles the previous record reached in April when the company released Opera 8. According to server logs, a majority of downloads came from Internet Explorer users.
| 5:13 am on Oct 3, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Inasmuch as I have started liking Opera to the point of being crazy for it, there are a couple gray areas that are more than a simple annoyance:
1. Wand thing to remember passwords is not truly gr8 .. it doesn't pop up a *do it* kind of button when the time comes to re-fill passwords.
2. Password keeper softwares like RoboForm and Gator e-Wallet aren't yet compatible with it. Though it should be an issue with the 3rd party software makers, yet it does create legacy issues.
3. Task management softwares like Act! etc. do not default to Opera. That's a problem too.
| 1:50 pm on Oct 3, 2005 (gmt 0)|
1) When you are on a page that requires a password that you've already put in, the username and password form sections should have a yellow border around them. Hold down ctrl and press the enter button. It will automatically put the info in and load the page (in most instances, I have a couple of bank pages that won't load automatically).
| 3:03 am on Oct 4, 2005 (gmt 0)|
This is a great news!
| 3:54 pm on Oct 4, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|sooner or later, webmasters are going to have to stop jumping from flavour of the month to flavour of the week and buckle down with a set of tools they feel comfortable with. |
Very, very sound advice. I can't tell the number of hours I've spent playing around with browsers. I'm a better webmaster for it, to a certain extent, but the time comes when you just have to get down to work. I love Opera's look, but its features can't compare with the developer tools for Firefox. So I use Firefox with the Opera theme! ;)
|Is Opera fatser than IE or FF? sure. |
Not always true. Opera's speed seems largely dependent on caching, which, by default, it does quite poorly (you never can tell if you're seeing the most recent version of the page, even after a refresh). For first requests, Firefox is just as fast with pipelining enabled and nglayout.initialpaint.delay set to a low value.
<joke> Firefox will always be better than Opera, just as Chevy will always be better than Ford and Pentium better than AMD. ;) </joke>
|I think people should consider what they are giving up before they jump ship again. Do you really want Google to know everything about everyone? maybe... but at what point do you move the focus of outrage from Microsoft to Google in the Big Brother stakes? |
To be brutally honest, Google and Firefox are playing around together these days anyway - it's not just Google and Opera. The fact is, if you're going to use a mainstream browser, its time to kiss privacy good-bye.
|Do you really want to stop the only serious challenger to IE6 in its tracks, by splitting an already meagre market share onto two? |
That is a very good point. Firefox has a solid, committed marketshare. Personally I don't think a free Opera will make much of a dent in it, but it will certainly slow Firefox's growth. The issue here is, do you want many challengers to IE, no challengers, or only one challenger? Some see diversity (many browsers with equally large marketshares) as the best thing. I'm sure others would prefer that Firefox be the only challenter to IE. Personally, I'm on the fence on this issue. Another point is, how large can the total non-MS browser marketshare ever get? If the current 20% is all, then there's really very little harm in breaking it up between several browsers.
In the end, Opera without the ads is still Opera. It's got a slimmer interface, but I still just find it clunky. My idea of a browser is about the same as a good mountain bike - it should be as quiet and intuitive as possible, and should be the last thing on your mind while you're using it. For me, Firefox meets that criteria better than anything else. No doubt Opera will do it for others. The advantage of Firefox is that its far more customizable. The advantage of Opera is that it does more out of the box. That's a big advantage to people who have other things to do than just play with their browser! ;)
One thing is sure - we're now seeing Opera and Firefox compete on more or less equal terms. Firefox has the upper hand at the moment, but now that Opera is free, I predict we'll see the sparks start to fly any time now. I'm rooting for "The Fox," but the battle should be interesting to watch.
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