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Opera Browser Usage and Support Forum

This 83 message thread spans 3 pages: < < 83 ( 1 [2] 3 > >     
Opera, Netscape, and MS Internet Explorer
Which is your favorite?
circuitjump




msg:1585800
 3:33 pm on Jul 24, 2001 (gmt 0)

Between Opera, MS Inernet Explorer and Netscape
Just wanted to know which one everyone prefers.
My favorite is Opera.

 

toadhall




msg:1585830
 6:18 pm on Jul 27, 2001 (gmt 0)

Travoli, knighty -
If the banner ads on the adware version of Opera get in your face just hit F11 (full-screen mode).
Once you've used Opera for a while you'll be able to do virtually everything via key commands, and faster (2 will rotate around windows, ctl-w closes a window,...)
Recommendation: F1 / Index / K / Keyboard Shortcuts --- print it and tour.
typophile -
Opera is currently available for Win, Mac (beta), BeOS, Linux, EPOC, OS/2, Solaris, and the mother ship on Independence Day. Win version offers about 16 languages. As a developer I test for all brands and versions, but as a surfer I use IE only if I have to and Netscape just sits in the garage.

Travoli




msg:1585831
 6:24 pm on Jul 27, 2001 (gmt 0)

Full screen is a good idea, thanks toadhall. I will tell you what I love the most... those "mouse gestures" are the greatest!!!

ggrot




msg:1585832
 7:47 pm on Jul 27, 2001 (gmt 0)

Lynx all the way baby!

j/k

littleman




msg:1585833
 8:01 pm on Jul 27, 2001 (gmt 0)

wget + vi
j/k+

theperlyking




msg:1585834
 8:17 pm on Jul 27, 2001 (gmt 0)

You cant beat telnet.

evinrude




msg:1585835
 8:22 pm on Jul 27, 2001 (gmt 0)

> You cant beat telnet.

Did someone say gopher? ;)

littleman




msg:1585836
 8:43 pm on Jul 27, 2001 (gmt 0)

perl -MLWP::Simple -e '$get = get "http://www.webmasterworld.com/"; $get =~s/<(.*?)>//gs; print $get'

Macguru




msg:1585837
 9:38 pm on Jul 27, 2001 (gmt 0)

Let us all go back to arpanet for real performances.

msgraph




msg:1585838
 9:52 pm on Jul 27, 2001 (gmt 0)

NeoPlanet! Woohoo! :)

caine




msg:1585839
 12:05 pm on Jul 28, 2001 (gmt 0)

I use a combination of NN4.76 and IE5.5.

I test everything in NN and mostly surf with it, however due to its deficiencies for code, i revert to IE for site built by idiots.

I am slowly moving towards Mozilla and Opera, but i am so used to NN, that it will take time

grnidone




msg:1585840
 1:58 am on Jul 29, 2001 (gmt 0)

>Let us all go back to arpanet for real performances.

*LOL* I realize that by laughing, I am aging myself.

What about Mosiac? You can still download it... [archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu]

-G

Brett_Tabke




msg:1585841
 7:01 am on Jul 29, 2001 (gmt 0)

>>Opera accels at CSS.
>Apart from CSS 2 - even Netscape 4.7 has better CSS 2 support

We must not be talking about different netscapes, as it's css2 support is all but nonexistent - while Opera's is pretty close to css standard (closer than ie5). (eg: opera lists the things it doesn't support, while microsoft lists the things ie does support).

knighty




msg:1585842
 8:11 am on Jul 30, 2001 (gmt 0)

Opera 5 supports all of CSS2 with the exception of:
*Opera 5 is a visual browser and does not support Aural CSS
*these properties: caption-side , clip, cursor, direction, font-size-adjust, font-stretch, marker-offset, marks, text-shadow, unicode-bidi, and all outline properties
*the system values on the font property
*the values added to list-style-type in CSS2
*these property/value combination: 'display: marker', 'text-align: <string>', 'visibility: collapse', 'content: <url>', 'overflow: scroll', 'overflow:auto'
*named pages (as described in section 13.3.2)
*the '@font-face' construct

I have a built a few sites using CSS 1 + 2 and Opera is the only browser that doesnt display the page properly..and yes I am sticking to standards.

So as I said before even NN4.7 supports CSS2 better than Opera 5, well at least in this particular instance ;)

Brett_Tabke




msg:1585843
 8:51 am on Jul 30, 2001 (gmt 0)

Ok, we have different ideas of css then. That is the first time I've ever heard Opera knocked for their level of css support over the mistake known as netscape 4.7. It's 4.7 that stands in the way of universal css implementations.

Netscape 4, supports only a fraction of CSS2. What it does support is a horror show of errors and bugs:
[webreview.com...]

Netscape has over 100 errors in css support including simple core properties such as Padding, Margin, and Border. It makes writing CSS for Netscape 4 an experience in "gosh, what _does_ it support properly". I think it is a stretch to even call Netscape 4.7 a css browser because you can't even begin to write css with being forced to work around all of it's bugs.

knighty




msg:1585844
 9:45 am on Jul 30, 2001 (gmt 0)

Yeah I completely agree.

I hate adjusting sites to look OK in Netscape which is why I was so suprised when something worked in NN4.7 and not Opera 5 on PC or MAC!

Its actually the overflow attribute for layers that opera trips up on. I hope Opera are going to fix this soon.

kapow




msg:1585845
 10:51 am on Jul 30, 2001 (gmt 0)

I totally agree with PageOneResults.
I am a Website Designer creating sites for average companies. I don't personally like MS (system hogging software) but the marjority of the known universe use IE - so I do. I must create sites that work for my customers and their customers. Opera sounds great if I didn't have to be compatible with the world I would use it.

theperlyking




msg:1585846
 11:27 am on Jul 30, 2001 (gmt 0)

>if I didn't have to be compatible with the world I would use it.

You can be compatible with more than one browser at once you know, it just takes a little more effort.

Eric_Jarvis




msg:1585847
 1:12 pm on Jul 30, 2001 (gmt 0)

it doesn't even take more effort...it simply means that you have to avoid making loads of effort to do things that can be seen on only one browser

it's really just a matter of doing the basic conceptual design first before doodling around with an editor

theperlyking




msg:1585848
 4:56 pm on Jul 30, 2001 (gmt 0)

Are you trying to tell me that Java hover buttons with built in midi arent worth the time?
:)

Larvef The Wanderer




msg:1585849
 6:16 pm on Jul 30, 2001 (gmt 0)

The only thing that is left to add about Opera is that this browser has problems with language alphabets other than English :( (Russian ie.) Which is a pity.

toadhall




msg:1585850
 8:03 pm on Jul 30, 2001 (gmt 0)

The biggest problem I had with the cyrillic language file was reading my preferences when I went to switch back to english!

backus




msg:1585851
 10:01 am on Jul 31, 2001 (gmt 0)

Netscape never works properly. All the 4.* versions crash often on all my PCs. Netscape 6 is too memory intensive, can't build the pages properly, and has trouble defining PHP and JavaScript. Opera is poorly laid out, and can't handle Javascript. Mozilla just doesn't work, fullstop, no matter how they try to improve it. The only browser which works is Internet Explorer. I really hate this hatred for Microsoft stuff. SQL Server is the best database system at the moment (Officially), it was the first with OLAP services and can handle datawarehousing better than Oracle. Nothing even cuts a scratch on Office. All their stuff has a purpose, and is good for that purpose. Linux (officially) has the highest number of security holes. Bill Gates rules!

knighty




msg:1585852
 10:37 am on Jul 31, 2001 (gmt 0)

*gasp* - *shock*

Knighty imagines 90% of webmaster world running round shouting "blasphemer! Repent your wicked ways!"

backus




msg:1585853
 10:43 am on Jul 31, 2001 (gmt 0)

Knighty, I don't care. I'm tired of hearing how bad MS is, when it isn't. Linux will die, and I'm going to jump on its grave when it does!

knighty




msg:1585854
 10:58 am on Jul 31, 2001 (gmt 0)

Backus,

I sympathise with you. I too get fed up of people constantly ripping into the Microsoft Empire. They do make some very good products (apart from frontpage) and as for their marketing strategy what company would'nt do the same in thier shoes?

There are loads of other comapnies with far suspect going ons such as Nestle.

And if one person mentions MS ripping off Macs or Xerox I swear I'll dfjhfg dfjddf dfdifg udgb

theperlyking




msg:1585855
 11:04 am on Jul 31, 2001 (gmt 0)

>>Opera is poorly laid out,
I agree by default it has some strange interface quirks, but it is the most user customisable[1] browser out there.

>>Mozilla just doesn't work, fullstop

Just doesnt work? Doesn't load? Sets fire to your PC? Doesnt render pages? Works fine for me, or are you talking about an old build or the branded releases?

I agree that its not fair to automatically bash MS products, but equally I can't understand why people will automatically defend them either. Ranting about SQL server (where did databases come into browser discussions) and ranting that Bill Gates rules doesnt make you any better than the people you are complaining about.

[1] - dunno how to spell that :)

backus




msg:1585856
 11:50 am on Jul 31, 2001 (gmt 0)

I was joking about the Bill Gates thing. Mozilla: I've downloaded the latest version, and installed it on numerous PCs. To make sure I'm not making a mistake, I've asked my Admin to help and I have tried on different versions of win, and different PC setups. On all, Mozilla's buttons on the top don't work properly. Page layout messes up. It has problems with Javascript in PHP pages. It hangs after 8.3522222 seconds of use on all machines due to an error in the program. Should I go on?

theperlyking




msg:1585857
 12:23 pm on Jul 31, 2001 (gmt 0)

Sounds like you got unlucky, I assume by "latest version" you mean latest nightly build?[1] If so just as this might get better it may have some bugs introduced that day.

I'm running the nightly build (about 3 days old) on two windows 2000 pc's - works absolutely fine, (actually better than IE but thats a different story) and ran it on a Linux PC where it also works fine. I've had less crashes with mozilla in the last few days than I have with IE (even though out of habit have used IE more:))

Sometimes problems with mozilla are caused by installing it on the same PC you've previously installed a older version on. They are fixed by looking for and removing any stuff that was left behind previously(e.g folders, registry settings).

[1]There are the "Netscape" branded versions, the M(milestone) versions (e.g M19) and the nightly builds, built from that days code writing.

backus




msg:1585858
 12:27 pm on Jul 31, 2001 (gmt 0)

What's the point though? IE never crashes for me. Never. Why should I worry if it is today's build of Mozilla or yesterday's or whatever. I install IE, it does everything I need and more, and it does it well, which no other browser can do.

theperlyking




msg:1585859
 1:01 pm on Jul 31, 2001 (gmt 0)

I don't understand, first your argument was that it doesnt work - now i've pointed out that it does actually work you don't want to even try it?

Strange way to make product decisions, almost er, as if you have a hatred for non ms software.

I never liked opera, but I spent a while getting used to it and find its better than IE. If I hadnt bothered I would be poorer for it.

Mozilla is getting more interesting though, i'm using it at the moment. Like Opera its pretty good at dealing with the sites that best-viewed-with-IE monkeys tend to generate. Even the strange (XUL) interface is no longer slower than a tranquilised slug and is very responsive.

backus




msg:1585860
 1:17 pm on Jul 31, 2001 (gmt 0)

No, you mis-understand. I have tried it, I told you. But I've tried it so many times, so many different builds that I'm bored of downloading it and reinstalling.

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