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Opera Browser Usage and Support Forum

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Mozilla vs Opera
the others don't count
lorax




msg:1586513
 3:04 pm on Oct 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

I'm use Opera mostly but am considering Mozilla. They seem pretty much identical when it comes to the features I need (including XML parsing and rendering).

Which do you use and why?

 

dingman




msg:1586543
 5:36 am on Oct 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

it can't launch notepad.exe on a Mac for example.

Indeed. However, I will grant Opera points over Moz on this issue. The first time I tried 'view source' in Opera on my Linux desktop, I was plasantly astonished to discover that Opera launched Xemacs to do it! I don't know which setting it looked in to decide that was the right editor to pick, but my best guess is that it looked in my Gnome preferences and picked out the default editor for text/html. I like that. (I wonder if it's also smart enough that the Windows copy of Opera I use at work will do the same thing - Xemacs is a little more of an oddball choice on Win2k :))

bobriggs




msg:1586544
 5:46 am on Oct 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

Yes, the windows copy of opera will open either wordpad or notepad.exe It doesn't seem to be a priority for Mozilla to detect the correct .txt editor. I don't like the view source myself, but I can get to it in other ways. Remember, we all have the other browsers around if we need that stuff. How many regular users view source?

Josk




msg:1586545
 10:06 am on Oct 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

The current Mozilla default is to open the source in a new tab which strikes me as a good idea. Why do I need another text editor open?

And skins...? These are slowly filtering through. A while back the Mozilla internals were completely rewritten which broke the existing skins.

starway




msg:1586546
 11:09 am on Oct 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

About Opera from bobriggs's post:

1) It crashed a lot for no apparent reason. (WIN2K, 6.0)
From my experience, Opera crashes very very rarely. Win2k is stable system and I have no problems with browsers on it.
Maybe you should upgrade to the latest 6.05 as there are many small bugs fixed there.
Also, even if it crashed, you should see how it recovers all previously opened windows. Excellent idea that doesn't exist in any other browser!

4) I've never figured out where the cookies are. (I'm sure someone will tell me)
Preferences (Alt+P) > Privacy
Excellent cookies management!

6) DHTML and advanced CSS is not supported. They'll tell you that on their website.
You're mixing completely different things. DOM issues are known (wait for the new Opera7!), but CSS support is the best among all browsers, Mozilla and Opera both are holding the 1st place in this competition and are [almost] equal, with few differences.

about Mozilla:
3) Tabbed browsing, even though the buttons in Opera allow the same thing, seems a lot easier.
I think exactly the opposite. Opera's window/"tabs" management is more flexible, easy and fast. Why flexible? There are many different ways to switch between (and manipulate with) opened windows: several ones using keyboard and several ones using mouse, so everybody can find it's favourite one.

Just a thought: many of those new features that are treated as a Mozilla's strong sides: tabs, mouse gestures, popup blocking, etc... were first implemented in Opera. They were just copied by Mozilla community. All browser enhancements that fisrt appeared in Opera are copied by Mozilla.

Right now Mozilla 1.1 context menu is almost equal to the one of Opera - test it on some framed site and you'll see.

bobriggs




msg:1586547
 1:48 pm on Oct 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

..Crashing
Yes, I'm aware of how it recovers the windows. It's just an annoyance from time to time.

..Cookies
I meant the stored cookies. I know about the server filters.

..DOM
That's the point. Wait for opera 7.

..Tabbed browsing
Just my opinion anyway.

They're both very good browsers, and it took me a LONG time to decide to switch to Mozilla. Of course, when Opera 7 comes along I might just switch back ;) ;) I'm so fickle.

starway




msg:1586548
 2:19 pm on Oct 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

Cookies are saved in Opera dir/cookies4.dat file.

ijan




msg:1586549
 4:03 pm on Oct 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

Look at how many people are still using the inferior and obsolete Netscape v4. Why? It's slaveware. Netscape locked people into use a product via many means. The email client, the composer, the what's related search, and other proprietary elements all contributed to locking in users to that product far longer than legitimate.

That same philosophy has carried over to Mozilla. The proprietary source code viewer, the composer, the email client and the other litany of proprietary aspects again are locking in users.

Since when offering useful features became slaveware as Brett put it? It is the number one goal of a product to become different from its competition, and at the same to provide new, useful features for its users (see: useful-users).

IanKelley




msg:1586550
 10:01 pm on Oct 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

Yeah, I thought that rationale was a little silly myself :-)

As if computer users are so stupid and inflexible that giving them additional features is going to "lock" them in. Hehe.

Lots of good points in that post aside from that one though.

dhdweb




msg:1586551
 11:32 pm on Oct 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

Call me stupid but I still love my IE (w/Google tool bar)!

ijan




msg:1586552
 1:32 am on Oct 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

dhdweb,

There is nothing wrong with loving IE. In fact Opera is the worst in rendering pages correctly as compared to IE and Gecko because it doesn't fully support DOM and JavaScript. It even has problems in rendering some old-school table based layouts. Opera is also the only web browser I know of that you need to pay for to use unless you can live with the ads of course.

Sinner_G




msg:1586553
 6:24 am on Oct 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Call me stupid but I still love my IE (w/Google tool bar)

Yes, the Google toolbar is one of the last reasons for using IE instead of Opera.

As for the rest, the DOM problem is indeed annoying, but the speed of Opera makes the difference.

martin




msg:1586554
 10:20 pm on Oct 28, 2002 (gmt 0)

I just love Opera because of:

1) Mouse gestures. Use them one time and you can't live without 'em

2) F12 quick options: Turn on/off JavaScript, Pop-up windows, etc.

3) Can't get these nice tabs with any other browser

4) Ctrl-Shift-Click

PS. DOn't use Opera 6.05 Windows, it has memory leaks (got up to 55MB in a few hours - not real browsing but testing).

imaputz




msg:1586555
 11:26 pm on Oct 28, 2002 (gmt 0)


2) The longer I kept the browser open, the larger the memory footprint it was using - checking in Task Manager. It would become huge, larger even than Mozilla, which tells me that there are some memory leak problems. It would not release memory used until you closed the browser.

whoa... for awhile there I thought I was the only one. That's only gripe against Opera that I have and I use it all the time.

I love Opera for it's mouse gestures, tabs, and no pop-ups. Can't use any other browser without the mouse gestures.

dingman




msg:1586556
 12:37 am on Oct 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

Galeon has mouse gestures. I'm only slowly getting used to actually using them, but it has them.

not F12, but one of the main menus up next to file, edit, etc. is "Settings" a quick drop-down set of toggles for the options you want to be able to switch frequently. (Java, javascript, pop-ups, image loading.)

Nice tabs? Galeon has nice tabs. I concede the superiority of Opera tabs over those in certain other browsers, but not over the ones in Galeon.

Ctrl-shift-click? Not the same key combo, but the way I have my prefs set I can do the same thing. For me, it's middle-click. Don't remember off the top of my head how to make the new windows open in the foreground.

Comes with the full Mozilla DOM support, too. If Opera 7 is as good as its advertising, though, I might have to fall back on "My browser is open source and yours isn't," but right now I don't see a reason to switch even if both were open-source.

martin




msg:1586557
 3:28 pm on Oct 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

The memory leaks are not present in 6.04 Windows and in Opera for Linux too.

Galeon's mouse gestures (or at least the default config) is making me open the right click menu almost all the time instead of going to the older page. It's more irritating than useful to me.

The middle click would have been very nice if I didn't have a wheel mouse, it sometimes scrolls before the click.

The things I miss in Opera are saving HTTP basic auth credentials and the nice cookie management in Galeon/Mozilla.

tedster




msg:1586558
 6:15 pm on Oct 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

the windows copy of opera will open either wordpad or notepad.exe

You can customize it even further. I set mine to "View Source" in Homesite, where I automatically have all kinds of handy tools available to pull the code apart, validate it, etc.

You can change this setting under:
File > Preferences > Programs and Paths

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