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Opera 7.11
Noticeable changes in support for CSS
pageoneresults

WebmasterWorld Senior Member pageoneresults us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 162 posted 7:10 pm on May 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

I've been surfing the net these past few days using Opera 7.11. I also have 6.05 loaded which I was using prior to the upgrade to 7.11 Some changes I've noticed thus far in regards to CSS support...

1. Styling of input elements now supported.
2. Cursor elements are now supported.
3. Title attributes now show the word Title: in the tooltip or pop up.

I know these are very basic, but they have always bugged the heck out of me. I'm not too concerned about the word Title: in the tooltip, but the other two have been an ongoing issue. Anyone else seeing any noticeable changes in CSS support? In what ways?

 

papabaer

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 162 posted 7:32 pm on May 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

v7.11 also includes support for generated content. Not even Mozilla offers this.

Mark my words: Generated Content will offer the most cutting edge SEO options yet.

Believe it.

- papabaer

topr8

WebmasterWorld Senior Member topr8 us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 162 posted 8:17 pm on May 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

... just when i thought i was swimming

along comes generated content - i'd never even heard of it until just now

... oh joyful evenings ahead

BlobFisk

WebmasterWorld Senior Member blobfisk us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 162 posted 8:19 pm on May 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

Like pageoneresults I've recently installed Opera 7.11 and I am very, very impressed. So impressed that I dumped IE6 as my default browser and switched to Opera (sounds like the Remmington shaver ads!). The control it affords me as a serious web surfer is immense.

I would point out the huge advantage of the alternative style sheets that come with this browser, as pointed out by papabaer here [webmasterworld.com] in the CSS forum.


v7.11 also includes support for generated content

Now that is a superbly big step in the right direction.

RonPK

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 162 posted 11:01 pm on May 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

CSS2 support is pretty good. IIRC it was papabaer who mentioned somewhere that Opera 7 can even be set to allow scrollbar colors to be modified, just like in IE ;).

The support for <colgroup valign="top"> saves a lot of typing.

Another nice thing is that it supports the innerHTML property. That finally allows for dynamic content.

The best new feature in Opera 7 is the navigation with Shift-arrow, allowing you to jump from hyperlink to hyperlink in a superbly natural way. It's really amazing! It doesn't care about frames, tables, positioned boxes, document flow, or other stuff only relevant to developers. Makes it much easier to surf the web without using that #$% mouse.

papabaer

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 162 posted 11:29 pm on May 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

Spatial Navigation
Spatial Navigation was first introduced in Opera's iTV business unit. With Opera for iTV on their set-top boxes, TV viewers appreciates how simple it is to use the arrows keys on their remote controls to navigate the electronic program guides or between links in Web pages. Now Opera is bringing the same concept to everyone's desktop computer. By combining the SHIFT and arrow keys on the keyboard, users can easily move to links or any other navigational element on a page.

It really is a very effective means of navigating links.

Opera 7.11 also has quite a bit of support for CSS3

Shrewd move in supporting a number of MSIE propriety features. A number of these, particularly innerHtml and custom/colored scrollbars, were contention areas that held back a number of IE users from making the switch.

BlobFisk

WebmasterWorld Senior Member blobfisk us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 162 posted 1:32 pm on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

I wonder if we will ever see Google developing a toolbar for anything other than IE? Like Opera or Safari or Mozilla?

CritterNYC

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 162 posted 9:53 pm on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

I wonder if we will ever see Google developing a toolbar for anything other than IE? Like Opera or Safari or Mozilla?

Hopefully we will see Google creating one in the future, but for now, Googlebar [googlebar.mozdev.org] does a decent job of emulating much of the toolbar functionality in Mozilla... albeit without PageRank, which still requires firing up IE.

Clark

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 162 posted 10:01 pm on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

OK, someone has to go to goole and FORCE THEM to create an opera toolbar...then I can switch.

I'm still on ie6 and opera 6 paid, do I have to pay to upgrade. Is the upgrade path difficult? (uninstall reinstall, I heard Opera 7 was a royal pain).

pageoneresults

WebmasterWorld Senior Member pageoneresults us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 162 posted 9:39 am on May 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

papabaer had me too on that Generated Content [w3.org] part. Some very interesting stuff there! ;)

papabaer

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 162 posted 12:30 pm on May 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

You can keep both Opera 7 and Opera 6 as Opera 7 installs into a seperate folder. I'm have v7.11 as my default (irreplaceable!) browser and Opera v6.06b in my stable of "test-browsers."

Generated Content...? Oh YEAH!

Hester

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 162 posted 12:38 pm on May 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

Opera also handles CSS to define any element as a table. In fact you can use your own tags! This piece of code illustrates the point. Try it and you will see that even though the body has no normal HTML tags, it still outputs correctly to the browser!

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html>
<head>

<title>Title</title>

<style>

box {position:absolute; top:10px; left:10px; width:300px; height:248px; padding:10px; border: 1px solid black;}

header {font-size:24px; background-color:#eeeeee; display:block; padding:10px 0px 10px 0px;}

paragraph {font-size:12px; color:#000099; display:block; padding:16px 0px 0px 0px;}

mytable {display:table; color:black; border-collapse:collapse;}

row {display:table-row;}

cell {display:table-cell; padding:2px; border:1px solid black;}

</style>

</head>

<body>

<box>

<header>Custom Tags Trick!</header>

<paragraph>Mozilla 1 and Opera 7 allow you to use your own tags, and apply CSS to them, so they work just like HTML. It's almost like XML!</paragraph>

<paragraph>Note: This does not work with Internet Explorer.</paragraph>

<paragraph>
<mytable>
<row>
<cell>This is a sample</cell>

<cell>table using cells</cell>
</row>
<row>
<cell>yet no standard</cell>
<cell>HTML was used!</cell>
</row>
</mytable>

</paragraph>

</box>

</body>
</html>

Nick_W

WebmasterWorld Senior Member nick_w us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 162 posted 12:40 pm on May 29, 2003 (gmt 0)


Mark my words: Generated Content will offer the most cutting edge SEO options yet.

Ok, I'm a dummy. Spill it PB, I'm in the dark here.....?

Nick

papabaer

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 162 posted 1:18 pm on May 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

Okay... I dangle the carrot just a bit more:

Generated Content - SEO Potential!

The page code:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/DTD/xhtml11.dtd">

<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en">
<head>
<title>Generated Content - You see it, but it's not really there!</title>
<link rel="stylesheet" title="Widgets" href="generated-content-one.css" type="text/css" media="all" />
<link rel="alternate stylesheet" title="Widget Flavors" href="generated-content-two.css" type="text/css" media="all" />
<link rel="alternate stylesheet" title="Widget Prices" href="generated-content-three.css" type="text/css" media="all" />
</head>

<body>
<h1 id="variable-header"></h1>
<div class="=variable-content-by-stylesheet">
<p id="content-in-stylesheet"></p>
<p id="alternate-stylesheets-rule"></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

The CSS for stylesheet generated-content-one.css:

#variable-header {content: Amazing Widgets!}
#content-in-stylesheet {content: Information that I DO NOT want on present in my page code as it dilutes my SEO formula and ruins the beauty of my concise and oh so beautifully scripted keyword rich text!;}
#alternate-stylesheets-rule {content: More information I would rather keep off page, but would LOVE my customers to see. You can change me by using ALTERNATE STYLSHEETS. Can you see the potential?;}

And... as you might already guess, the content is changeable via ALTERNATE STYLESHEETS!

Now the above example has no relevant keyword text anywhere in the actual page code, but the real potential is in mixing GENERATED CONTENT with standard content.

Imagine for a moment.... uh, pageone? Are you sitting down? Good... now take a deeeeep breath! There. Okay...

Imagine for a moment (and dream about it from this point on...!) being able to "craft" pages that have highly optimized keyword content present in the page code and uses GENERATED CONTENT to display content that well, for any number of reasons, you choose to keep out of the actual page code. CSS Cloaking? Not really... it's just 'lil ole Generated Content comin' at ya...

Looks like "G" is gonna hafta start parsin' "C"(SS) at some future date...

Intrigued?

- papabaer

Hester

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 162 posted 1:33 pm on May 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

Do search engines spider CSS for text though? Otherwise your page would come up as blank?

Isn't this what XML is for anyway - dynamically selected content?

papabaer

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 162 posted 1:47 pm on May 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

First, reality check: can't even begin to consider using Generated Content for the foreseeable future since Opera 7 is the only browser that supports it.

Secondly, it will be best deployed as an "enhancement" though we all know it will be used and abused, depending on the author's scruples and intended purpose. Generated Content will be most effective when used selectively.

This will not replace XML, but will be another tool it the advanced webmaster's toolbox. Another powerful tool.

Yes.. the above example has nothing on page for the spiders to parse... but remember, it is a very basic example. Real usage would see headers and page text (present in the actual HTML) that are finely tuned to a particular SEO target, while less relevant (read: potentially diluting) text, can be served via generated content.

There are MANY potential uses to be considered. Many.

But.. as I said, Only Opera 7 offers support for generated content at this time. Still.. it's nice to plan ahead.

papabaer

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 162 posted 1:53 pm on May 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

Oh.. one more thing. Images can also be served using generated conent. I see some very creative possibilities here...

Nick_W

WebmasterWorld Senior Member nick_w us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 162 posted 2:12 pm on May 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

Thanks PB, I knew the principles but just didnn't understand how you might apply it to SEO. Now I do ;)

----- I'm going to start incorporating some of these 'finer points' in an upcoming project where I expect a good portion of users to have Opera 7. I'll let you know how it pans out!

Thanks again..

Nick

pageoneresults

WebmasterWorld Senior Member pageoneresults us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 162 posted 12:43 am on May 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

From another thread and tedster...

Opera doesn't support background images on Pseudo Elements (which a:hover is).

Opera 7 does offer this support.

papabaer

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 162 posted 3:02 am on May 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

A few of my personal favorites:

em[title]:hover {
cursor: help;
background: #ffc;
}

pre:hover {
background: #ffd700 url(dido02.jpg) right top no-repeat;
}

code:hover[title] {
text-decoration: blink;
color: #8b0000;
}

Gotta love those attribute selectors!
Now how about :before and :after?

div.main:after {
color: #d6d6d6;
font-size: 0.7em;
}

p:before {
display: block;
text-transform: capitalize;
color: #00008b;
font-weight: bold;
content: counter(chapter,upper-roman) "-" attr(id);
counter-increment: chapter;
}

Now we're gettin' serious!
- papabaer

pageoneresults

WebmasterWorld Senior Member pageoneresults us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 162 posted 10:20 pm on Jun 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

Anyone notice how Opera likes to tuck the <li> image right up on the <li> text? How are you addressing this issue? You know, that gap between the bullet and the <li> text. Usually we see questions on how to minimize that gap. Now I have a question on how to expand that gap, at least for Opera! ;)

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