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Yahoo Publisher Contextual Advertising Network Forum

This 41 message thread spans 2 pages: 41 ( [1] 2 > >   posting off  
War on AdSense from the big Y!?
Is there a coming war on AdSense by the big Y!?
RobbieD

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 21 posted 6:21 am on Apr 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

With Yahoo! close to releasing a similar product into the marketplace this will be:

a) Good for the marketplace
b) Push Google to increase rates for publishers
c) Cause a major publisher war
d) all of the above.

I have been watching AdSense over the last year and one thing that is happening slowly over time is the percentage for the publisher is getting lower and lower. As long as publisers don't complain this will continue until there is a cry out. They have publisher right where they want them because there is nothing to switch to that delivers the kind of number that AdSense does in most cases for most publishers.

BUT with Yahoo! releasing a similar product into the marketplace they could get many publishers to switch based on showing a percentage or a higher payout on testing.... Google won't go down without a fight and trust me Y! is going to come out with something big. They always do. It's coming...

Folks there is a REAL WAR COMING.

 

isorg

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 21 posted 9:45 am on Apr 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

When will this happen?

At present I am getting fantastic SERP placement from Yahoo, nicely targetted for keywords, but then Adsense either doesn't recognise what my content is about, or they have no inventory for those topics, so I get off-topic ads! :(

burntan

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 21 posted 9:49 am on Apr 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

If the big Y! doing it then it is a good news for those Adwords-to-Adsense marketers, cause they can change to Adwords-to-Ysense and Ysense pay more cause overture minimum bid is $0.10

Tropical Island

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tropical_island us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 21 posted 11:12 am on Apr 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

pay more cause overture minimum bid is $0.10

Yes, but I question their inventory of advertisers who are also paying for content.

With the number of weird content sites that Over has and the general bad publicity about them I think they will have a problem providing large enough number of relevant ads for many sites.

This will probably lead to lower CTR's than G and therefore less money.

Paul_N

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 21 posted 11:37 am on Apr 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

Many Advertisers use G because they use Smart Pricing that can significantly lower their advertising costs.

Y will have to do something similar to Smart Pricing to make it cost effective to move from G to Y.

Speaking as an Adwords Advertiser and an Adsense Publisher, I would rather pay less on Adwords, than earn more on Adsense. It would appear that publishers tend to be at the end of the chain. Searchers are the most important asset to an SE, then Advertisers, then Publishers. It would certainly appear this way considering Google's stance on Smart Pricing. And believe me, us Advertisers have to jump through hoops to get our ads approved, and in decent positions as well.

ownerrim

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 21 posted 12:20 pm on Apr 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Y will have to do something similar to Smart Pricing to make it cost effective to move from G to Y."

Yahoo already has an advertiser base. What they don't have is a publisher base. If yahoo institutes something similar to smart pricing, then what's the incentive for a publisher to switch from adsense to yahoo?

Yahoo should avoid the crap of smart pricing---which it can do quite nicely by simply being selective about the sites it allows into the network AND by screening every additional site that a publisher brings into the network

RobbieD

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 21 posted 12:38 pm on Apr 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

Yeah good points. They don't have publishers now but you can bet that they will do everything in their power to steal Googles clients. Speaking of stealing what about Microsoft? Bill Gates is not happy with any of this and will put his money and power behind trying to steal from both Yahoo! and Google.

As mentioned publishers are at the end of the food chain but in a few months (6-8) you will see at what lengths these companies will go to attract the publishers to them.

Paul_N

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 21 posted 12:54 pm on Apr 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

"If yahoo institutes something similar to smart pricing, then what's the incentive for a publisher to switch from adsense to yahoo?"

And what's the incentive for existing Advertisers to use Y's Content Network if they find they are spending more than they make?

Once again, Publishers seem to think they're number 1 in this game when they're not. If Advertsiers choose not to use the Content Network, then there's no point in having Publishers. If only a few advertisers use the Content Network because other's find they make no profit, then Publisher's payments will be low due to lack of competition.

I'm afraid Publishers will always be on the receiving end of this situation.

If however, as said above, Yahoo has stricter website approval guidelines, then this will mean good conversion rates, more competition, higher payments to Publishers. This is what G is trying to achieve with Smart Pricing, but many believe they are failing.

As an advertiser and publisher, I too would like to see a good service from Y, and I am only too happy to pay Publishers $2/click if Publishers make me more! But the simply fact is if Publishers don't, then advertsiers won't use Content.

Rachel

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 21 posted 1:04 pm on Apr 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

I don't think either company will have to do much to attract small publishers like most of us are. They might court the bigger guys, with well established sites and a large number of very targetted visitors (someone like EFV comes to mind).

I'd say most of us here will give Yahoo a try without them doing much of anything. Some will stay if the pay is better, some will stay if the ads are more targeted. <shrug>

I could possibly see some incentives for advertisers, but not for most publishers.

howiejs

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 21 posted 1:23 pm on Apr 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Publishers seem to think they're number 1 in this game when they're not. If Advertsiers choose not to use the Content Network"

Good point. There has to ROI at the other side.

I don't think competition hurts anyone.

RobbieD

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 21 posted 1:44 pm on Apr 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

Yes it's understood that publishers are the lowest but they still have value even if it's a small one.

Most people here think that search ads are the only way to go. Better ROI but after a user clicks on a search ad they end up at a website.

Now if the search engines can kill 2 birds with one stone it's a win win for them.

Publishers will always have a value because most of the time users will end up at a publishers website at some time in their travels and the search engines know this and try to monitize everything possible.

ownerrim

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 21 posted 3:54 pm on Apr 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Once again, Publishers seem to think they're number 1 in this game when they're not"

The point, however, is still the point. A quality publisher with good potential for earnings, or good current earnings, has zero reasons to change adcode if yahoo can't offer something better than smart pricing.
And I think yahoo is smart enough to realize this.

Smart pricing does not exist to benefit advertisers. It exists to placate advertisers AND ALLOW ADSENSE TO RUN ON A GAZILLION CRUMMY SCRAPER SITES.

The people who lose are quality publishers with quality content. Once there's a viable alternative to adsense, one that doesn't have smart pricing nonsense, publishers will flock to it. But I say again, if yahoo can't offer something better, they won't get many publishers. Or maybe they'll get them, but they won't stay long.

ownerrim

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 21 posted 3:58 pm on Apr 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

And let me add this: if you apply the chicken-egg analogy to the web---content comes first, not advertising. It begins and ends with content, not with ad dollars spent. I love it that there are ad programs out there for me to make money off my content, but people don't go to the web to see ads. They go for information. You turn the whole web into scraper city and no one will be making a dime off anything eventually.

cagey1

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 21 posted 4:14 am on Apr 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

Unfortunately for Yahoo!, the first publishers through their door will be the ones that were perviously kicked out of Adsense.

pflyers

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 21 posted 4:25 am on Apr 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

Wrong on that one,
the first publishers through their door will be those who've seen their cpm and epc's slashed for no reason like me.

Like to the tune of $30,000 a month!

RobbieD

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 21 posted 4:41 am on Apr 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'm quite amazed at how much I was making 8-10 months ago...and now? More traffic and the figures just go down every month..sometimes they go up but most go down.

It was smart to offer publishers so much money and create that buzz but I think AdSense launched before they went public so now the stockholders want more and more money.

I think Google is smart overall and will get it to the lowest level but still making publishers happy.

I really hope Google will do something if Y! launches something big...get a few big checks again for 4-6 months. Hey I'll take what I can get ;)

It's going to be an interesting year and next year! WOW can't even imagine it.

RobbieD

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 21 posted 4:47 am on Apr 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

Never under estimate Y! They are very powerful and will make sure whatever they release into the market place will be at the level if not better than Google Adsense in it's current state.

When it comes down to it even if I'm (as a publisher) considered at the bottom of the food chain, the company that treats my right will get my businesses.

I have always considered it better to pay a bit more to have better support. Like my host... had two previous bad experiences with other companies and now the host I'm with is so amazing I fly there to take him to lunch!

asianguy



 
Msg#: 21 posted 3:45 am on May 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

Yahoo wont let small publishers use thier ads because they are greedy.

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 21 posted 5:01 am on May 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

Unfortunately for Yahoo!, the first publishers through their door will be the ones that were perviously kicked out of Adsense.

If Yahoo is smart, those publishers won't be allowed through the door. Google's achilles heel is its "buyer take potluck" or "lowest common denominator" approach, so Yahoo would have a competitive advantage if it introduced YPN as the premium alternative for demanding advertisers (including mainstream corporate advertisers and their agencies).

Erku

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 21 posted 1:47 pm on May 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

This is not a good point.

I think Yahoo should allow the once who have been kicked out of Adsense, because click frauds may have happened for so many reasons, objective and subjective.

What is youf competitor has made hundrets of illegal clicks on your ads?

Is this your fault?

Does this site deserve a right for a second chance?

Yahoo understands this very well.

I would really like to hear some words from a "Yahoo guy"

There was or still is a Google guy in this chat room. When MSN started their chat on the upcoming Search Engine in last September there was an MSN Search Guy.

How about some Yahoo Guy? I am sure people from Yahoo are reading these discussions.

How about if Yahoo would bring some light as to where we stand in terms of releasing the Publisher's Network?

Thank you so much.

OvertureRep

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 21 posted 9:47 pm on May 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

Actually, there's YahooSarah…and I am her ;-)

I do check out discussions like these (and for all things related to Yahoo! Search Marketing) and can tell you that we will be launching some new publisher products soon. I don't know of specific dates, but will keep you posted. In the meantime, I'll keep an eye out for your discussions and help out wherever I can.

YahooSarah (formerly known as OvertureRep)

pflyers

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 21 posted 10:47 pm on May 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

Having been with adsense since July 03 I can tell you my number one complaint is the stupid "smart pricing".

I've basically stopped building up stuff to generate revenue from adsense as it's like trying to build a house on quicksand.

It's forced me to diversify which is actually a good thing.

You build something, and no it's not spammy junk either, it works like it's supposed to and you wake up a few weeks later and it's sunk down to where it's not viable anymore. It's been happening like clockwork now since Mid December.

As long as it's a fair exchange and stable, you'll find me first in line!

asianguy



 
Msg#: 21 posted 12:03 pm on May 21, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hey OvertureRep, what took so long for the YPN to launch? Are you waiting until Google will buy your company? Google is getting bigger and bigger every day and it looks like any competitor is doomed for a buy out? They have too much cash that any company gets in the way can be bought.

Why Yahoo is not doing something about it? I'd like to see what your company has to offer with YPN.

I get 20,000 visitors a day and I'd like to try if i can make money with YPN.

Erku

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 21 posted 12:12 am on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

I should say that it was very nice of YahooSarah to post here and let us know that YPN will be lunched very soon.

Greetings YahooSarah,

we are looking forward to it and to the benefits that YPN may bring to the small and midsize Publishers.

We look forward to your new product. In the meanwhile any comment or any updates from you (as much as you can) will be very much welcomed here.

I think it is very encouraging that you say that the YPN will be lunched very soon. I had signed up at the email sign up already long time ago and it is good to know that YPN is coming soon.

Best wishes.
Erku

steve40

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 21 posted 1:54 am on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

welcome yahoosarah

I am sure Yahoo has spent many hours looking at the mistakes G has made and also G successes and will use the information gained to launch a product that is at least comparible and looks at advertisers first as thats who pays the bills and then publishers needs

I have seen many gripes re: overture and would hope that some of the current weaknesses can be resolved to allow more and smaller advertisers greater flexibillity for testing the water and deciding where how and when they wish to spend their money.
for publishers some additional ways of targetting the adds correctly and also much more human policing to ensure that algo's are just one of the tools not the only one which can effect innocents as well as spammers
Fraud detection and TOS adhered to fully and also monitered by humans

just my 2 cents from an existing advertiser and publisher with G
steve

asianguy



 
Msg#: 21 posted 2:18 am on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

steve40> I am sure Yahoo has spent many hours looking at the mistakes G has made and also G successes and will use the information gained to launch a product that is at least comparible and looks at advertisers first as thats who pays the bills and then publishers needs

Steve, i am somewhat agreed with you, but yahoo and overture has to speed up before the Godzilla put them out of business.

Even if YPN will come out, I wont trade Adsense for YPN because i think the company is difficult to work with as a publisher.

I can assure you the YPN wont be making money from me.

Erku

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 21 posted 1:26 pm on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hello Asianguy,

There are lots of points that I agree with you.

But to the contrary I am looking forward to YPN. New products are always welcome. The bids are very high when I check them at Overture.

YPN needs to hurry up because when I talk to publishers, some of them say that they will wait a year and see how the program works, if there are any errors or mistakes. Then they will come in.

I personally will give YPN a try and see how it will go. Hopefully it will come soon, since MSN Adcenter is already testing their similar product in France and Singapore, repordetly.

Have a good Sunday guys.

AbsintheSyringe

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 21 posted 9:04 pm on May 22, 2005 (gmt 0)

Very nice for some as you YSarah to show up.

and can tell you that we will be launching some new publisher products soon. I don't know of specific dates, but will keep you posted.

Yea, I completely understand that, but when is soon though. By summer? End of the summer, fall, next year? I keep coming here and checking if anything´s new and no significant news whatsoever.

You guys should at least contact the publishers that signed up for more info. We´ll be glad to test it :) After YPN is released it´ll definetely be a direct adsense competitor. They´ll even have a chance to win. Some weird feeling is telling me it´s going to be a good thing.

MSN, I dunno know, I dont look foward their program. They just got into the game cuz they want to take a piece of pie, m$ has to get money in every possible field. Dont have any significant experience in this game...so go YPN!

Erku

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 21 posted 12:35 am on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

I think AbsintheSyringe has a good point here.

You guys need to at least contact the publishers just once and give us some update. Possibly offering some testing or just letting know where do we stand at this point. I understand that there is an information that you cannot possibly share at this time.

Buttom line is that we have been waiting fro YPN and are looking forward to it.

Thank you

helleborine

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 21 posted 1:41 pm on May 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

<Bourbon update>Google has just flushed my site down the toilet in the rankings.

As a user, Google no longer gives me the results I want.</Bourbon update>

I want to publsh Yahoo ads. The sooner the better. Make me your first customer. Please. I want to be first in line.

This 41 message thread spans 2 pages: 41 ( [1] 2 > >
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