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War on AdSense from the big Y!?
Is there a coming war on AdSense by the big Y!?
RobbieD




msg:1577696
 6:21 am on Apr 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

With Yahoo! close to releasing a similar product into the marketplace this will be:

a) Good for the marketplace
b) Push Google to increase rates for publishers
c) Cause a major publisher war
d) all of the above.

I have been watching AdSense over the last year and one thing that is happening slowly over time is the percentage for the publisher is getting lower and lower. As long as publisers don't complain this will continue until there is a cry out. They have publisher right where they want them because there is nothing to switch to that delivers the kind of number that AdSense does in most cases for most publishers.

BUT with Yahoo! releasing a similar product into the marketplace they could get many publishers to switch based on showing a percentage or a higher payout on testing.... Google won't go down without a fight and trust me Y! is going to come out with something big. They always do. It's coming...

Folks there is a REAL WAR COMING.

 

annej




msg:1577726
 7:01 am on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

I think the biggest challenge will for Yahoo to get enough varied ads to make context ads work. I was just noticing today that the ads on the pages of Yahoo groups are not well matched. Mostly I'm on hobby related groups and topics that have plenty of well matched ads in adsense are not getting any matched ads at all in the Yahoo ads shown in Yahoo Groups.

mzanzig




msg:1577727
 8:00 am on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Yo Yahoosarah,

here are some requirements from a small publisher:

1) Make the whole business setup transparent for all, i.e. tell the main market forces (advertisers AND publishers) who get's what and why.

2) Make sure that you strictly control the quality, again to both sides: avoid scrapers and useless content sites, but also avoid advertisers who are nothing more than scrapers and cheap rip-offs. I find that my visitors *believe* that the ads are useful to them, and I don't want to see them disappointed (because they won't click another ad for some time if disappointed).

3) Provide stellar statistics to publishers. The more the merrier. Which ads were displayed? Which ads got clicked? When? Which countries? How much did these pay? Which referrer? Help publishers to fine tune their sites, and you will see happy advertisers, publishers, and visitors.

4) Treat publishers as an important part of the value chain, e.g. provide good, proactive support. Be proactive when things are tough (e.g. service down). Publishers will find out anyway, and it leaves a good impression when you see that someone cares.

5) Create TOS that can NOT be interpreted any way (in favour of Y!), thus leaving no room for conspiracy theories. A clear business setup is good for all participants.

6) Forget about Smart Pricing. Try to get as predictable revenue streams as possible. Publishers LOVE this, because then they can focus on their core competency - creating good content (instead of checking stats every other hour to see that 'something' is going on again, without knowing what, worrying what to do to fix this prob).

7) Avoid beginner mistakes like sending PIN codes that take forever to arrive (4 weeks to Germany is unacceptable).

8) Get a bunch of good PMs to drive the product - just sticky me if interested! ;-)

All-in-all, publishers are waiting DESPARATELY for competition to AS, because AS is okay-ish, but far from perfect. Main reason being lack of competition, and all the above mentioned probs.

Good Luck!

-- Mark, with a smile from Munich, Germany

asianguy




msg:1577728
 9:59 am on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

hey mzanzig, why dont you take over the management of the company. You are making them look that they dont know what they are doing. Just let them do their job and wait and see.

The only thing i am pissed with YPN is that Yahoo is dragging this campaign too long.

Tropical Island




msg:1577729
 10:47 am on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

mzanzig

The problem that Y will have is superseding the corporate mentality that has driven Overture for the last few years.

All the things that you ask for are directly opposite of what Over has been giving us.

The addition of suspect sites, Ad Ware and dubious justifications for increasing revenues (featuring search terms on the front page of Yahoo and then calling it "search")do not bode well for the future of their publisher program.

The big issue, especially for Germany, the UK and other European countries is the lack of advertisers. Our German Over account would have a hard time finding 4 or 5 advertisers in our niche to provide relevant ads. I can only guess how many of those have opted in for "content".

IMHO they will not be able to match the worldwide scope of AdSense and at 15 Euro cents minimum they will have to offer discounts to encourage more participation.

rj87uk




msg:1577730
 10:50 am on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

asianguy:

I think every company needs feedback, outside ideas withiout this they may never get that edge - So dont be to quick to shoot someone down.

Erku




msg:1577731
 1:22 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

I agree with all the points of mzanzig

As a publisher I am frustrated with other competitors if some of mzanzig's points are not met. They are all reasonable and well presented.

I am sure Yahoo knows all these things, but feedback is always an opporunity for any business to have a better poduct and be more competetive.

Feedback = Help.

Why do we help? Because we want YPN to succeed. we are all together in this. This is a beautiful business. YPN, Advertisers and Publishers help each other work closely and honestly together and bring good things for our consumers. One cannot succeed withouth the other in this business. We all need each other.

mzanzig had a great point saying that visitors find ads helpful. I would say so for my visitors as well. If I have good quality ads for them, they will like it and will click on them and find the needed info or the product. But if the ads are not good and very primitive the visitors will not go there anymore.

The only thing I agree with Asianguy is that YPN is already taking too long. I think an action is due around this time. The buzz was created too long ago and it's already taking little late. However, YahooSarah said that it is coming soon. This is positive.

Have a good day guys.

asianguy




msg:1577732
 1:27 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

rj87uk >>I think every company needs feedback, outside ideas withiout this they may never get that edge - So dont be to quick to shoot someone down.

You mean Yahoo needs feedback? Are you saying the company still doesnt have a clue how these things work? Dont forget Yahoo was the pioneer to open its door for online advertising and they've been running PPC before anybody else.

Let's say if they are really meticulously testing, what is taking so long, and why they cant speed up the process.

Nobody gets it.

rj87uk




msg:1577733
 1:55 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

Yes I know Yahoo! know a lot about this area but there is always room for feedback and improvement.

Just like Google adsence still needs / gets feedback to improve - You have seen the results they listen and add in new tools etc. Where would any company be without feedback?

You have a point about taking too long but as with everything else people complain when something isnt done to satisfaction.

RJ

davec




msg:1577734
 2:04 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

YahooSarah

I know you're probably being bombarded with stickies and posts at the moment, but I've just curious to know whether you will be rolling out a dynamic content match system to existing overture partners at the same time as rolling out the new system?

As I'm sure you're aware, the current system is awfully limited once the number of content pages increases.

Thanks
d

mzanzig




msg:1577735
 3:10 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

asianguy:

Sure, Y! knows a lot on this topic, just like other companies as well. And yet - we see bad products on the market. How comes? One, there is greed - if there is no competition, they can basically do what they want (just think of intransparent pricing) and get away with it. Two, these are still small companies compared to other giants. Their manpower is limited. Personally, I believe that they ACTIVELY LISTEN for feedback here, because they get first-hand information and opinion from one side of the fence (the publishers). If they knew everything, they would have launched the service long time ago.

You see, maybe they read one of our posts and say, "hey, we haven't looked at it from this viewpoint, let's put that into the focus groups we are running with webmasters next week?" - Or "there seems to be a strong negative sentiment when it comes to smart pricing. Is it really smart to launch it?" Then there is at least a small chance that our feedback has improved things.

There is no point in rolling out the same product - in this case they will get indeed just the sites that have been dropped by G. This cannot be in their interest. Their product has to be different (need I say 'better'?) in order to lure webmasters away from competition.

And honestly, do you really think that someone who successfully runs AS (even mildly) will jump immediately to Y! for the same product? I doubt that. Rather, webmasters will turn into 'listening mode' and see what happens. Maybe do a field test on a smaller site to get experience. Things change if the product is far superior (see my post). Then webmasters might think "heck, this is soo much better, let's go for it and fast!". That's were the money is.

Just my $0.02

ownerrim




msg:1577736
 4:23 pm on May 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Steve, i am somewhat agreed with you, but yahoo and overture has to speed up before the Godzilla put them out of business"

There's some truth in this. The recent changes to the Adsense TOS are kind of fuzzy, YahooSarah, but they lead a lot of people to believe that google is now telling it publishers that they can run google contextual ads or something else, but not both within the same SITE (previously, you could run google on some pages and other contextual ads on other PAGES).

I perceived this as a direct shot at Yahoo. By making this type of TOS change to adsense, publishers may not want to risk giving YPN a try.

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