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Yahoo Publisher Contextual Advertising Network Forum

This 42 message thread spans 2 pages: 42 ( [1] 2 > >   posting off  
Adsense rules are more relaxed than Yahoo's
For those who think Adsense is unreasonably restrictive
ann




msg:1574812
 6:45 am on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

Here is what I read when signing up to try Yahoo on one of the smaller sites.

From the TOS:

in the no no section I found this: <<<(do not) display all or part of the Ad Unit on any web site that is not enrolled in the Beta Program, or sublicense or syndicate the Matched Ads to any other entity or web site;
(do not) display all or part of the Ad Unit to any user located outside the US; >>>>>

Okay people, how do you prevent other countries people from reading your site besides banning all foreign countries? I don't plan to do that!

I also found on it that you may not display Yahoo ads on any page with any other ads? Does this mean I must take down my banners and all ads other than Yahoo?

This all sounds MANY times more restrictive than Adsense!

Think I will stick 100% with adsense. Looks like Yahoo is against diversifying our income......sheeeesh.

 

tebrino




msg:1574813
 9:13 am on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

Apparently no one follows this part of TOS since I see Yahoo ads on many sites and I'm not located in US

frox




msg:1574814
 9:23 am on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

Yes, ann, that is quite unreasonalbe.

The phrase "any user located outside the US" is so generic that I think it's just a subtle translation of the Adsense "we can ban you whenever we want" clause.

Mentat




msg:1574815
 9:27 am on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

Absurde clause... but not imposible to implement.
Use an Country IP Database and serve Yahoo codes only for US ppl and for the rest of the world another code.. (ex: Adesense code)

Lex_Luther




msg:1574816
 9:52 am on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

I asked them on the phone, they said put it on as many sites as you want, which I did, but I never kept it on the original approved site. Kinda scary

ann




msg:1574817
 11:04 am on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

Yes it would be scary.

With all the violations to their "TOS" they could ban you as soon as they owed you a few thousand and needed their bottom line to look good. (or even if one of them got up on the wrong side of the bed).

I think I will pass as I believe in following the rules and doing it any other way gives them total power over your money. Not that they don't have it anyway. :)

jetteroheller




msg:1574818
 11:46 am on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

display all or part of the Ad Unit to any user located outside the US

Only 12% of my AdSense income is from my English pages.

88% German pages.

So what should Yahoo bring to me?

sailorjwd




msg:1574819
 12:06 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

Questions:

Did anyone have their revenues reduced after the September review? If so what was the % reduction?

Do any of you filter non-US IPs?

sailorjwd




msg:1574820
 12:11 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

Has anyone gotten a ruling on whether we can display the ads to US Territories:

American Somoa
Federated State of Micronesia
Guam
Midway Islands
...

My opinion of Y has just hit an all time low.

moTi




msg:1574821
 12:18 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

besides, i find it very cheeky of ypn, why they withhold their ad tool from the international audience for so long.
and discriminating against non-american people, be it publishers or site visitors, is certainly not wise and leaves a bad taste.
are we living in the third world over here in europe or what? bring it on yahoo, so that i can test you finally.

hunderdown




msg:1574822
 1:53 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

moTi--don't be insulted. Their policy amounts to an admission of failure at signing up advertisers from outside the US, IMO.

garyr_h




msg:1574823
 3:05 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

I see that they state this for several reasons, mainly: many of the ads aren't for people located outside of the United States.

Most of the ads I have seen are services for a certain area or ONLY for the USA/Canada. Why would someone in Germany want to see ads for a company in NYC that sends flowers only within the USA?

Guys, this is also only BETA. Just like MSN they are testing their product on a certain area first, then later they will broaden it to areas outside of North America and perhaps then they will show ads for people from outside of America or at least have a broader selection of 'generic' ads.

jomaxx




msg:1574824
 3:43 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

Surely this should be Yahoo's responsibility rather than the individual publisher's?

sailorjwd




msg:1574825
 4:02 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

I talked with them this morning about this usa/non-usa issue.

They basically said that Yes you should block IP addresses from non-USA locations.

And they said they would discount non-USA clicks but they don't have the technology to do it at the moment.

Additionally odd - they hadn't heard about this issue before and had to read the T&Cs. And, was somewhat surprised that a USA site would be getting much traffic from outside USA.

frox




msg:1574826
 4:56 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

sailorjwd, your post was exhilarating!

that's SO dumb of Yahoo!

And they said they would discount non-USA clicks but they don't have the technology to do it at the moment.

Yes, IP numbers are a difficoult concept to master...
And, are webmasters supposed to have more technology than Yahoo has?


And, was somewhat surprised that a USA site would be getting much traffic from outside USA.

"What, do they get the Interweb in the rest of the world too?"

ann




msg:1574827
 5:07 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

Well, that does it for me. A company so quick to tell their associates that it is fine to break the TOS is not a company I plan to deal with!(You do know they could sue you later on for everything you have earned?.

jomaxx




msg:1574828
 5:12 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

LOL, the combined brainpower of Yahoo, Overture, Alta Vista and Inktomi, and this is their level of awareness? You'd think that this issue would have been scribbled on to the very first napkin.

ann




msg:1574829
 5:31 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

I would suggest that anyone who is a serious publisher should first take a copy of the printed out TOS to a lawyer for an opinion. You may get a big surprise.

sailorjwd




msg:1574830
 5:34 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

I don't want to show it to my company's lawyer.. I know what he'd say.

I'm sure my professional liability ins company would drop me like a rock if they new... likely invalidating my coverage anyway.

ann




msg:1574831
 5:48 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

Well folks, there you have it. You can consider yourself warned and what happens here on out is your business.

I know what I plan not to do :)

May check out the eminimalls ads...don't know yet. I have other ad companies but just wanted to try something new. I hope they do call me and ask why I never put their ads up after opening an account....Boy howdy, have I got some choice words for them!

NoLimits




msg:1574832
 5:49 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'm willing to take my chances - especially considering the significant amount more Y provides per click than G.

My site is shifting to more Chitika/YPN every day... AdSense is slipping, and they don't deserve the ad space.

I'm willing to put up with A LOT from Yahoo - including them working out the TOS. Google makes changes to theirs all the time, it didn't start out near what it reads now.

My honest opinion is that if YPN gets targeting down a bit better - as soon as they come out of beta a flood gate will open on the mountain we call Google... with Yahoo being the lowest lying area.

I'm far more content with the level of SERVICE and SUPPORT that Yahoo provides. They still have my trust - something that Google probably won't ever earn back.

jomaxx




msg:1574833
 6:09 pm on Oct 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

If YPN are going to stop paying for some or all international traffic, then publishers might want to start looking into geotargeting ASAP. GeoIP has a free solution, but if you only want to split traffic up into US and non-US then you can get halfway or maybe 3/4 of the way there by simply looking at the first number in the IP address - fairly trivial and no database lookups required.

ann




msg:1574834
 12:36 am on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Having better support isn't going to help much when you get sued further on down the line, say a year from now for "breaking the TOS".

Word of mouth from support people is only worth the paper it is printed on.

I look at this high level of support as a tool they are using to sucker people in and the support people advising you to break the TOS as shills, pure and simple.

Just my opinion.

sailorjwd




msg:1574835
 3:27 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Again I'm told by YPN that it is likely they will discount clicks outside USA.

Does anyone know of a free downloadable list of IPs by Country?

Post or sticky me please :)

garyr_h




msg:1574836
 4:08 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Again I'm told by YPN that it is likely they will discount clicks outside USA.

This may explain the low CTR...

NoLimits




msg:1574837
 4:26 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

... yeah becuase that's just what Yahoo! wants to do - start suing beta publishers for their own lack of technology. That'll get the program off on the right foot.

I'll take my chances :¦

sailorjwd




msg:1574838
 4:49 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

No mention of sueing from Y.

When they analyze the clicks at the end of the month they reserve the right to not count clicks outside the USA.

No talk of throwing you out as long as your site is US focused. They looked at my site and said it was OK after I explained that vast majority of my clients are US-based.

They suggested that if I'm really concerned about it then I might want to back out of the beta program and see if this restriction is lifted when/if they open it up.

So, I've been trying like heck to find a simple list of 255 high order ip #s and their associated countries so I can analyze my log files. At this point I don't know if my problem is big or small.

jomaxx




msg:1574839
 5:40 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

You can't associate high-order IP numbers with individual countries. There's way too much variance. But since the major regions of the world are served by different NICs (RIPE, Asia/Pacific, LacNIC, etc.), you can break traffic down by continent fairly easily and accurately. For country-specific targeting you really need to look at something like GeoIP, as I mentioned earlier.

Simply for the purposes of breaking traffic up into US (including Canada) and non-US, I actually think you could achieve 95% accuracy or even better using the high-order IP number alone. I've done some work on this before, so I can give you a first pass, which I believe is reasonably accurate but no doubt could stand to be improved. Additions welcome.

NON-US IP BLOCKS
----------------
62.*.*.* Europe

80.*.*.* Europe
81.*.*.* Europe
82.*.*.* Europe
83.*.*.* Europe
84.*.*.* Europe
85.*.*.* Europe
86.*.*.* Europe
87.*.*.* Europe
88.*.*.* Europe

192.*.*.* mixed US and other
193.*.*.* Europe
194.*.*.* Europe
195.*.*.* Europe
196.*.*.* Caribbean and Africa

200.*.*.* Latin America
201.*.*.* Asia and Latin America
202.*.*.* Asia
203.*.*.* Asia

212.*.*.* Europe
213.*.*.* Europe

217.*.*.* Europe
218.*.*.* Asia
219.*.*.* Asia
220.*.*.* Asia
221.*.*.* Asia
222.*.*.* Asia

garyr_h




msg:1574840
 5:51 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

Why not just use a simple PHP function?

// sorry will post again soon, was working a second ago

garyr_h




msg:1574841
 6:15 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)


<?
function getLocation($ip)
{
$NetGeoURL = "http://netgeo.caida.org/perl/netgeo.cgi?target=".$ip;

if($NetGeoFP = fopen($NetGeoURL,r)) {
ob_start();
fpassthru($NetGeoFP);
$NetGeoHTML = ob_get_contents();
ob_end_clean();
fclose($NetGeoFP);
}
preg_match ("/COUNTRY:(.*)/i", $NetGeoHTML, $temp) or die("Could not find element COUNTRY");
$location[0] = $temp[1];

echo $location[0];
}
?>

<?
getLocation($_SERVER["REMOTE_ADDR"]);
?>

// You might want to beef it up a bit if you are that worried about sending ads to someone of a country outside the USA. But something like this should work to obtain the country. Also, if you want to use it in a script (which is more than likely) you might want to change 'echo' to 'return'.. or maybe not, haven't tried this out yet.

This 42 message thread spans 2 pages: 42 ( [1] 2 > >
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