homepage Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 54.227.41.242
register, free tools, login, search, pro membership, help, library, announcements, recent posts, open posts,
Become a Pro Member
Home / Forums Index / Search Engines / Local Search
Forum Library, Charter, Moderators: anallawalla & bakedjake & inbound

Local Search Forum

    
IYPs charging me for Google PPC
When I pay for a click on an IYP, that shouldn't mean Google
bears5122




msg:1572995
 7:56 pm on Dec 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

With more and more IYPs turning to a PPC structure, I've noticed a disturbing trend. The PPC I'm paying for through the IYP is being listed on Google Adwords.

To make this clear:

I sign up with the IYP on a PPC structure allowing $.50/click. The IYP goes out and runs a PPC ad on Google for me for $0.25 that leads to my IYP landing page. IYP makes $0.25 on the click.

It is certainly a brilliant marketing tactic, but doesn't this completely devalue what I am paying for. When I pay an IYP, I'm paying for the visitors they receive who search for my industry. 99% of the time, I'm running a PPC ad on Google that directs to my website.

Perhaps I'm naive to the local search environment, but I feel like I'm being ripped off by these PPC models. Although similiar in some ways, IYP traffic is different than PPC traffic. When I choose to advertise on an IYP, I want to advertise on the IYP. If they can't get the traffic they need, then that is not my problem.

Any feedback on this would be appreciated.

 

Chicago




msg:1572996
 8:45 pm on Dec 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

bears5122,

More and more, the major IYPs and other local search networks are sharing advertiser dollars, and looking to the major SEs to generate clicks. Especially, PPC clients, wherein monthly budgets exceed inventory levels in particular geo-vertical categories on-site.

This type of activity is disturbing as it can lead to significant quality degredation. Yet at the same time, this activity permiates the entire industry of second and third teir providers.

Before I go any further, can you *please tell us who* the IYP in question is?

bears5122




msg:1572997
 8:57 pm on Dec 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

Thank you for your response.

Citysearch and Superpages have been the culprits.

I don't mind an IYP advertising their "widget" section through PPC, but not directly to my landing page which costs me a click.

Chicago




msg:1572998
 9:50 pm on Dec 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

Is this an example of what you are seeing [google.com] Noting the CitySearch PPC on the right?

Note: I ran a search for day spa, tampa fl and the ppc that is showing is for a chicago day spa.

bears5122




msg:1572999
 10:49 pm on Dec 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

It is similiar phrase. I've found one here. It is a search for Boston Day Spa in Google. You will see the Citysearch ad that when clicked, goes directly to the IYP listing. This automatically charges you a click on Citysearch.

I'm assuming that Citysearch is just bidding lower than your bid on their network and making money.

Maybe I'm totally off on being concerned about this, but if I wanted to pay for Google PPC, I'd do it myself. When I sign up for an IYP, I want my traffic coming from those searching on the IYP.

stever




msg:1573000
 9:22 am on Dec 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

Chicago, without taking this too far OT, does this imply that natural traffic levels are lacking for generalist business yellow pages (something I've wondered before)?

Chicago




msg:1573001
 3:39 pm on Dec 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>does this imply that natural traffic levels are lacking for generalist business yellow pages

stever, sure natural traffic levels are lacking within some geography + verticals (categories)amongst the IYPs and within the local directory marketplace in general. This is why they work with each others traffic and share their advertisers.

as bears points out, they know their per click revenue. it is fixed. they know they can generate a significant amount of revenue by arbitraging google adwords, off-setting their lack of traffic in certain categories and ensuring that every last cent of a clients monthly budget is used.

i am less concerned by the citysearch activity on google. where i really start to get concerned is when the PPCs are propogated across 250+ "partner" search properties, like Superpages recently explained to me.

much of this stems from their inability to generate sufficient traffic levels as a destination property. but a lot of it comes down to simple greed in the face of consumer ignorance.

bears5122




msg:1573002
 8:41 pm on Dec 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

much of this stems from their inability to generate sufficient traffic levels as a destination property. but a lot of it comes down to simple greed in the face of consumer ignorance.

I think that is one of the best statements about the IYPs I've read in a long time.

I guess I felt that if I was paying for clicks on Citysearch, I should be getting them through Citysearch. I wasn't informed about this Google PPC. This seems like a short sighted approach on their part. I can't imagine this is building any brand loyalty to their IYP.

I would like to see IYPs think long term. I'd rather them use that money they are eating for the click and spend it on advertising.

Why aren't these IYPs stepping up and looking to build out their name? I don't see anyone advertising traditionally with TV spots, radio spots, or other types of advertising.

It seems that there is a huge opening for one IYP to step up and dominate the market. Right now there are just too many IYPs vying for users.

Perhaps I'm missing the boat here, but it just seems like these major IYPs are looking at the best way to make a quick buck. I think the best approach would be to work on building up a user base, not using someone elses.

GameMasterM




msg:1573003
 11:22 pm on Dec 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

Indeed SuperPages is growing in useage if Alexa is to be believed. What it really boils down to is this, are advertisers being served up conversions from the Google placement?

Chicago




msg:1573004
 4:34 am on Dec 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>Why aren't these IYPs stepping up and looking to build out their name? I don't see anyone advertising traditionally with TV spots, radio spots, or other types of advertising.

bears, they are starting to. and much more is to come. we have to understand that this is an industry that over a hundred years old that is having to change the medium upon which its products are based. the iyps that dominate the marketplace are multi-billion dollar organizations (baby bells Real, Smart, Super, Dex) with unionized salesforces made up of thousands of foot soldiers each, which are used to selling high margin tradional yellowpages.

change hasn't come easy. but they are doing it ... they are changing...they are advertising... they are growing... and the majors have long term staying power, if nothing else, through merger and acquisition.

>>Indeed SuperPages is growing in useage if Alexa is to be believed.

Yes it is growing.

Regardless of all that though, the main point here i think is that distribution channels that extend into the second and third tier networks, and or, arbitrage models on g or o that are not made clear to the advertisers, are a negative trend within the industry. trends that will ultimately serve to lessen the quality and character of these brands unless they change before the internet media buying market matures. until then and especially with a cpc based model, there is ample justification to serve up those ads, serve, serve, serve. after all you don't pay anything anyway, unless someone clicks:/lol

Global Options:
 top home search open messages active posts  
 

Home / Forums Index / Search Engines / Local Search
rss feed

All trademarks and copyrights held by respective owners. Member comments are owned by the poster.
Home ¦ Free Tools ¦ Terms of Service ¦ Privacy Policy ¦ Report Problem ¦ About ¦ Library ¦ Newsletter
WebmasterWorld is a Developer Shed Community owned by Jim Boykin.
© Webmaster World 1996-2014 all rights reserved