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Deprecated - Microsoft Windows OS (XP/NT/Vista) Forum

    
Vista Beta 2 Released
Simultaneously with Office 2007 Beta and Longhorn Server
mattglet




msg:1570993
 9:32 pm on May 23, 2006 (gmt 0)

Microsoft Corp. on Tuesday released new test versions of what company co-founder Bill Gates called its three most important products: Windows Vista for desktop computers, Windows for servers and the Office business software suite.

[news.moneycentral.msn.com...]

[microsoft.com...]

 

freewebsiteideas




msg:1570994
 5:45 am on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

How does one become a beta tester?

webdoctor




msg:1570995
 8:35 am on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

Head over to Microsoft's Connect [connect.microsoft.com] site, sign up for an account, and look at the Available Programs page.

FWIW, I started testing small-scale stuff (service packs and so on) several years ago, then tested WS2003 R2, before getting invited to the Beta and LH Server tests.

tictoc




msg:1570996
 10:47 am on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

Looks like some progress finally being made...

Broadway




msg:1570997
 11:22 am on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

As buggy as microsoft products are I didn't think they did any beta testing.

Here in 2006 I wonder if Windows for servers finally addresses the issue of hotlinking.

davidpbrown




msg:1570998
 12:04 pm on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

Apologies for a stupid question but is it clear yet if Vista is a big step forward?

What are the substantial differences c.f. XP?

I've read so much hype, early on, that I've been put off by talk of what isn't happening and have an impression now that it's not a whole lot different.. aside from the transparency thing which reminds me of Silcon Graphics X c1994.

ByronM




msg:1570999
 2:05 pm on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

Well for users they will see the following

Visually:

* Updated Explorers
* New Aero Interface enhancements (3d effects)
* Live taskbar (not just icons)
* 3d window managements

Security:

* User Account Control
* "Super User" and "Standard User" with permissions locked down from the get-go
* Malware management tool

Search:

* Desktop Search
* Folder Search

Performance:

* SuperFetch - accelerated Boot & Application Loadup
* ReadyBoost - use all that ram finally :)
* ReadyDrive - user hybrid drives for near spontaneous boot/resume.

Power saving/hibernation is the norm for Vista and will be integrated into all of the above tools to increase performance, boot time, app load times and "feel" of consistency in performance.

Backup:

* Volume Shadow Copy Support
* Enhanced Windows Backup and more media type support

Network:

* New network Center
* New Network "Explorer"
* New Network "Map"
* Enhanced Wireless network - quality of service awareness & optimization. Sort of a combination of seemless roaming support and integration fo wireless services for better availability. Don't just connect but connect to the best network and keep on being aware of everything to provide the best service.

Thats merely just the fluff.

The most impressive stuff is

* DirectX 10
* Bye Bye legacy - more pullout of legacy code (Crap)
* New device driver interface
* standard build for 32/64bit
* integration of Windows Media Center (FINALLY!)
* Better multiple cpu/multi core support
* tons of included apps for "Core" functionality such as cdr, dvd, tv/PVR/digital content
Presentation

real "guts" stuff.

* The Windows Presentation Foundation or WPF, formerly code-named Avalon; a new user interface subsystem and framework based on Direct3D (DirectX), and vector graphics, which will make use of 3D computer graphics hardware and Direct3D technologies. See Windows Graphics Foundation.
Communication

* The Windows Communication Foundation or WCF, formerly code-named Indigo; a service-oriented messaging system which allows programs to interoperate locally or remotely similar to web services.

* Workflow
The Windows Workflow Foundation or WF; was announced in August 2005, and allows task automation and integrated transactions using workflows.

check out the wikipedia article for explanations of all of the above.

[en.wikipedia.org...]

ByronM




msg:1571000
 2:43 pm on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

needless to say i'm looking forward to Vista Pro.

Major one for me - Windows Media Center
Anxiously awaiting for Flight Simulator X :)

Integration with Windows Live is gonna be amazing. Already testing out the live with Vista, Xbox 360 and the upcoming mobile/handheld support.

webdoctor




msg:1571001
 3:10 pm on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

Updated Explorers

Which many people seem underwhelmed by. It's not clear that the new interface is going to help productivity - for old dogs there are lots of new tricks that need to be learnt.

Aero Interface enhancements

Eye candy. Great way to slow down a fast PC. How exactly does being able to see through some bits of my desktop help my productivity? :-)

User Account Control

This is driving people up the wall - and a majority seem to want to turn it straight off. It's a bit like sudo with all the good stuff taken out, and a lot of MSFT eye-candy thrown in :-)

"Super User" and "Standard User" with permissions locked down from the get-go

This isn't really true. By default the user account created during setup IS STILL an administrator (albeit protected with UAC).

MSFT still haven't grasped the nettle of setting users up with low priviledges by default - they're too worried about breaking existing applications. AppCompat seems to be more important than security.

Desktop Search

The search function has a few... err... unusual features. It also eats CPU cycles, and batteries if you're on a laptop. Seems to get turned off pretty quickly by many users.

SuperFetch - accelerated Boot & Application Loadup

IMHO it remains to be seen if Vista will run as fast as XP on similar hardware. Right now it definitely doesn't.

ReadyBoost

No-one seems to have any evidence that this actually works. Some have pointed out that the I/O of the average USB stick isn't going to win any awards. Easier to buy another stick of real RAM?

---

From where I'm standing, Vista is a long way from being a "must-have" upgrade.

<humour>It has cool effects which will appeal to teenagers ;-) but for those of us over 19, I'm not so sure.</humour>

Many of the features look great the first time you see them, but after an hour or so you realise that that you're experiencing yet another waste of time or CPU cycles (remember Clippy?)... and then you start looking for how to turn it off.

Roll on GoogleOS :-)

BillyS




msg:1571002
 5:03 pm on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

>>Roll on GoogleOS :-)

Let's see... fourth generation O/S or a completely untested O/S? At least you could have mentioned Linux to hide your MS bashing post.

Vista will be welcomed by both businesses and consumers. Any improvement - no matter how small - in security features is welcomed by businesses looking to protect their intellectual capital.

From a consumer standpoint, you need to recognize the importance of "eye candy." Microsoft is bridging the gap between the traditional personal computer and home entertainment. That's not going to happen with a command line prompt.

And I'm not some MS loving groupie. I build my own PCs. I've got a dual boot machine that took less than an hour to install Windows on and literally weeks to get Linux stable. Like it or not, that's reality.

ByronM




msg:1571003
 6:23 pm on May 24, 2006 (gmt 0)

Which many people seem underwhelmed by. It's not clear that the new interface is going to help productivity - for old dogs there are lots of new tricks that need to be learnt.

Aero Interface enhancements

Eye candy. Great way to slow down a fast PC. How exactly does being able to see through some bits of my desktop help my productivity? :-)

User Account Control

I dunno, Have you tried it? Transparency is great for people who work on PC's for a living.

This is driving people up the wall - and a majority seem to want to turn it straight off. It's a bit like sudo with all the good stuff taken out, and a lot of MSFT eye-candy thrown in :-)

Well, if you choose to do that you pay the price. A properly setup unix box needs root for nothing. A properly setup Vista would be the same. Vista virutalizes the hardware so you don't need to reboot to install devices and if your granted the ability to do so more power to you.


The search function has a few... err... unusual features. It also eats CPU cycles, and batteries if you're on a laptop. Seems to get turned off pretty quickly by many users.

Have you used Desktop Search? the first thing it says is it will follow your profile. If your doing anything its not indexing and if your on battery it isn't indexing. YOu have to CHOOSE to enable those.. Same goes with every other desktop search i've seen.

SuperFetch - accelerated Boot & Application Loadup

IMHO it remains to be seen if Vista will run as fast as XP on similar hardware. Right now it definitely doesn't.

You miss the point of this feature. Superfetch requires the appropriate hardware and isn't mean to make Vista run as fast as XP on old hardware.

From where I'm standing, Vista is a long way from being a "must-have" upgrade.

Just where are you standing? Are you a developer? Are you an end user? Are you interested in Next Gen Gaming? Are you looking for more security? Are you looking to take advantage of the higher throughput and capacity it can handle? Are you running multiple cores? Do you spend hours writing docuemnts? Do you have multiple desktops and windows open and do lots of multitasking? Just what do you do on your PC? Are you into seemless networking, sharing, document/image and data sharing? do you do desktop publishing? are you interested in PVR, HDTV content or online media? do you want something that challenges computing as it is today or what?


<humour>It has cool effects which will appeal to teenagers ;-) but for those of us over 19, I'm not so sure.</humour>

I'm 30.. i see past the "coolness" of the GUI and the real update to the guts.


Many of the features look great the first time you see them, but after an hour or so you realise that that you're experiencing yet another waste of time or CPU cycles (remember Clippy?)... and then you start looking for how to turn it off.

Sounds like the entire Mac product line.. Cool until you realiase you just traded one headache for another.

Clippy? thats so 1997 its not even funny. With success comes lots of failure but you don't even know your highs and lows until you experience them. I think MS is on to something and most people are holding grudges for the wrong (childish) reasons.


Roll on GoogleOS :-)

OH great.. talk about preaching something thats all fluff and hot air. Your comments have real validity now!

BTW, i use Linux, Solaris, Windows and OSX. They all serve a great purpose and i'm not Microsoft fanboy by anymeans.. i was an OS/2 biggot for years and now i just run what works but i'm seriously interested in seeing Vista push the envelop in personal computing and look forward to what we saw in 1995 when computing had to catch up to the software that was coming down in not just the OS but the Games and everything else made possible.

webdoctor




msg:1571004
 6:17 am on May 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

Roll on GoogleOS :-)

Let's see... fourth generation O/S or a completely untested O/S?

Oh dear... another sense of humour bypass? Didn't you see the smiley? :-)

At least you could have mentioned Linux to hide your MS bashing post.

It wasn't MS bashing, I was just trying to provide a view to balance the 'marketing fluff' that ByronM posted.

Vista will be welcomed by both businesses and consumers.

How many beta testers like UAC? "Great idea, poor implementation" is the resounding response.

Why should consumers and businesses immediately welcome an OS? Can you back up this claim?

Any improvement - no matter how small - in security features is welcomed by businesses looking to protect their intellectual capital.

...and the $64,0000 question is - does Vista really deliver improved security?

From a consumer standpoint, you need to recognize the importance of "eye candy." Microsoft is bridging the gap between the traditional personal computer and home entertainment. That's not going to happen with a command line prompt.

Fine - for consumers.

Why is all this eye-candy in Vista Business edition?

Why does Vista Business tell me it needs 'Gaming Graphics' to run properly?

Am I about to recommend to clients that they embark on yet another round of workstation upgrades so that... wait for it... end-users can have transparent windows on their desktop? <boggle>

And I'm not some MS loving groupie.

I'm neither MS-loving nor MS-hating :-)

---

Transparency is great for people who work on PC's for a living.

Why? Can you back this up?

A properly setup unix box needs root for nothing. A properly setup Vista would be the same

A properly set up XP box would also be the same. Where is the 'value added' in upgrading from XP to Vista in the scenario?

UAC appears to deliver neither flexibility nor granularity.

UAC is 'version 1.0' of MSFT's sudo - so we can expect it to be improved over the next few versions.

ByronM




msg:1571005
 5:52 pm on May 25, 2006 (gmt 0)


It wasn't MS bashing, I was just trying to provide a view to balance the 'marketing fluff' that ByronM posted.

What are you talking about. Explain "marketing fluff" - have you tried Vista? Have you seen what i described in use? how is is marketing fluff to over those improvements?

The only "marketing fluff" you care to look at is the pretty new gui and you discount the entire OS on that.


How many beta testers like UAC? "Great idea, poor implementation" is the resounding response.

? Every beta test i know and those who are in the developer side and support side is estatic about Vista. sure it was a long time to wait and many ups and downs but hardly a let down.


Why should consumers and businesses immediately welcome an OS? Can you back up this claim?

Security, Manageability, Usefullness, supportability, integration with business applications and more. The Vista Business edition has so many integration points with Email, Networking, Systems management and such that it is a "no brainer" for mid to large size businesses to upgrade to.


Why does Vista Business tell me it needs 'Gaming Graphics' to run properly?

You don't "need" 3d graphics to run vista. If you have the capability it will be enabled.

OSX requires 3d graphics acceleration for quartz as well. Almost the entire X support in linux is moving towards accelerated/GL or 3d desktop environments.

2d is so yesterday and 99% of computers sold today have some sort of 3d support that is accelerated by the GPU so in 99% of the cases the 3d desktop won't be slower by any means but actually more responsive and capabable then XP by a long shot.


Am I about to recommend to clients that they embark on yet another round of workstation upgrades so that... wait for it... end-users can have transparent windows on their desktop? <boggle>

You again fail to realize the benefits of Vista. Do you work in a centralized managed environment? Do you have managed mail, office, document repositories, VPN access or anything? have you looked what the next product line delivers over and beyond the Windows 2k/XP and 2003 server and workstation lines?

* Better Deployment
* less kludgy SMS management
* Better laptop management/backup management/Recovery
* a lot more auditing (any business wants this)

Transparency is great for people who work on PC's for a living.

Why? Can you back this up?

I manage about 70 oracle databases, login to about 15 unix servers, have 2 web consoles up watching our grid control and have office, another web browser, instant messenger and other programs running on a dual monitor setup. I use transparent windows to watch tail files that i have setup color coded so i can see red/yello/orange status appear in the background and quickly jump to them. i also use transparency on IM to have it floating over an app that i'm working on or debugging so i don't have to tab or look out of my workspace. i also use transparency for some of our custom apps simply because when you stare at something for 10 hours a day a little bit of color is nice. I usually have my daughter, my family or vacation photos on my desktop and it gives a little bit of character to an otherwise bland and mundane process i do.


A properly setup unix box needs root for nothing. A properly setup Vista would be the same

A properly set up XP box would also be the same. Where is the 'value added' in upgrading from XP to Vista in the scenario?

XP isn't as granuallar and the security is a snap in rather then foundation.

NazaretH




msg:1571006
 3:43 am on May 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

There is one REALLY good thing about Vista. Once it is out, new OSX should be out shortly.

ByronM




msg:1571007
 12:55 pm on May 26, 2006 (gmt 0)


There is one REALLY good thing about Vista. Once it is out, new OSX should be out shortly.

Inded.. competition on the OS front is always needed.

AbsintheSyringe




msg:1571008
 6:55 am on May 27, 2006 (gmt 0)

You know it's amazing how many of you are ... longing for this thing. I'll be amazed if 2% of you upgrade your machine just for Vista.

We on linux, have those glassy, transparent things for 2 years going around now. However we dont need 128MB graphic card for it. Oh yea, no need for minimum 512MB of ram, even tho 1GB is recommended.

What do say, I'm really interested to see what is Vista going to do. Or it's going to start burrying Microsoft, or it's going to raise it. This is really their pretty much last chance, epsecially if new Vista will be released 6years after.

Someone said it in this same post. It's all about good looking piece of OS, does it work? Ah doesnt really matter what's important is that it's shiny. This is not for anybody but teenagers.

IBM has announced that it wont ship Vista on their new series, they'll ship their comps with linux on it (customized RedHat) who's more serious then big blue?

Vista Vista, go get a brand new PC with 128GB (make sure it's not shared) graphics to see those nice looking effects, and 1GB of ram, and keep it down for next few 6-7-8months. 15GB of free space on your HDD should say enough for now too.

ByronM




msg:1571009
 1:25 pm on May 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

You know it's amazing how many of you are ... longing for this thing. I'll be amazed if 2% of you upgrade your machine just for Vista.

Boy are you wrong.. i know businesses that will be upgrading 10s of thousands of pc's very shortly after vista is out. Not just consumers who want the latest and greatest in Gaming and connectivity.

Dell will have EVERY laptop shipping vista buy christmas and do you know how many laptops they sell a day?


We on linux, have those glassy, transparent things for 2 yars going around now. However we dont need 128MB graphic card for it. Oh yea, no need for minimum 512MB of ram, even tho 1GB is recommended.

You miss 99.9% of the vista experience if you just focus on the gui. You can download programs that do what vista does for the most part as far back as windows 95 and se with window blinds and other 3rd party utils. Microsoft is just taking it to the next step and using your GPU for the gui instead of wasting cpu cycles on your processor and making you hang on to your 2d cards.

BTW, a Geforce MX 550 passes the vista desktop test. That card costs a whopping 25 bucks.

I'm not sure i follow your memory argument. I run linux on a desktop and hell if i'd do so without the gig of ram i have on there.


What do say, I'm really interested to see what is Vista going to do. Or it's going to start burrying Microsoft, or it's going to raise it. This is really their pretty much last chance, epsecially if new Vista will be released 6years after.

If your interested in seeing what vista will do get a beta for yourself or wait for the public preview release that will be downloadable shortly.


Someone said it in this same post. It's all about good looking piece of OS, does it work? Ah doesnt really matter what's important is that it's shiny. This is not for anybody but teenagers.

You are blissfully ignorant on all accounts in regards to the power of Vista. Did you just come here from slashdot or something?


IBM has announced that it wont ship Vista on their new series, they'll ship their comps with linux on it (customized RedHat) who's more serious then big blue?

Good for IBM. IBM doesn't make pc's anymore since they sold to Lenovo anyway.


Vista Vista, go get a brand new PC with 128GB (make sure it's not shared) graphics to see those nice looking effects, and 1GB of ram, and keep it down for next few 6-7-8months. 15GB of free space on your HDD should say enough for now too.

what?

indiangal




msg:1571010
 4:35 pm on May 31, 2006 (gmt 0)

Thankx For the information

webdoctor




msg:1571011
 7:44 am on Jun 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

i know businesses that will be upgrading 10s of thousands of pc's very shortly after vista is out

For every business you can name I think we could come up with 100 that won't be upgrading straight away. This is always the case with new OSes. Who wants to be on the bleeding edge? In this respect, Vista is no better or worse than any other OS.

Four years after the release of Windows XP, a study showed that half of all businesses were still running Windows 2000.

[it.slashdot.org...]

Dell will have EVERY laptop shipping vista buy christmas

I'm sorry to put it like this, but this particular statement is nonsense.

Vista hasn't RTM'd yet, and last week Steve Ballmer said the "January" ship date could slip further.

[news.google.com...]

So there is no way you can know whether Dell will ship laptops with Vista at Christmas, since MSFT doesn't know whether they'll have released Vista by then. Over and over again, MSFT has said that Vista will ship when it's ready (an approach I agree with 100%). Trust me, in this particular beta program there is a lot going on behind the scenes, and it isn't all sweetness and light.

davidpbrown




msg:1571012
 11:52 am on Jun 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

Thanks for the replies.. interesting reading.

Having just read tom's hardware guide's
500 Hour Test of Tomorrow's Windows "Vista" [tomshardware.co.uk]
I'm still underwelmed and expect I'll wait to 6 months after release before considering this again.

Note to self: Vista <> XP SP3.

ByronM




msg:1571013
 1:30 pm on Jun 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

I've already upgraded.. was suprised the upgrade process worked. Both on a laptop with XP Pro and my Media Center running MCE 2005.

Interface is 100 times better than expected, program layout is more enjoyable, the desktop widgets actually create a friendly environment, the games are all updated, the integration with office 2k7 is pretty tight.

Only thing i struggle with are the changes to the control panel but i'm trying to stick to Aero and not drop back to the boring old interface.

Everything worked as well. No driver issues for me. My ATI 9800 has no problem running the full blown system on an athlon 64 with 1 gig ram. My laptop is a tad bit slower with a Geforce 2 go but it still runs fine.

good job ms.. a beta thats almost useable to test for a change :)

bill




msg:1571014
 1:35 am on Jun 9, 2006 (gmt 0)

Microsoft has finally made Windows Vista Beta 2 available to the public [microsoft.com], and anyone can now download or order a DVD of the pre-release version of Vista.

You can order the Vista Beta 2 on DVD, or you can download a 3.5GB ISO version (4.4GB for the x64 version).

I would recommend you only install this in a Virtual PC, a multi-boot option or on a spare machine. This is beta software and you can't expect to be able to uninstall it and return the system to its prior OS.

wmuser




msg:1571015
 10:44 pm on Jun 9, 2006 (gmt 0)

ByronM did you heard about real tests in real life?
MS is always promising fast loadup with every new release

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