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Flash and Shockwave Forum

Help please with flash
re: flash

 10:57 pm on Mar 15, 2003 (gmt 0)


My site has been redone and the designer used a program called Flash. Now, nothing flashes on the site, but I was just told that the search engines won't find me or my links page, unless I have her move the links page out of flash

is that correct? I'm in shock!



Alternative Future

 11:21 pm on Mar 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

If the site is done completely in flash then it is true that some/most SE's will not find you, the way forward is to have an index page which gives the user the choice of using either the flash site or entry to the HTML version! Again this helps some of your visitors that don’t have flash installed on their machine along with other time saving issues that some flash sites experience..




 11:47 pm on Mar 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

Well, on the index page, my designer has a box that says if you don't have flash, press this button to install flash and if you do have flash, then just press this enter button.

And on this index page, the source code lists my meta tags, title, description, etc.
So I am wondering will the search engines find me.


Alternative Future

 11:57 pm on Mar 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

Some SE's don't use meta tags while others check your site content for matches in these tags.
Having a download flash here is a good thing, but in defence of some surfers that don't like flash or will not wait for the download over a dial-up connection, it might be best to have another button on the index offering entrance to the site in HTML which the SE's will also follow and be able to validate the meta tags against site content. Also your index page that offer's this option is it done in HTML?



 12:02 am on Mar 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Yes, the source code of the index page looks to me like it is done in html.

What do I do now, exactly?

Alternative Future

 12:11 am on Mar 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

How large is your website i.e. how many pages would it take to have a duplicate version in HTML, and is this a viable option? Send me a sticky with the URL if you wish and I will have a quick look :)


Alternative Future

 12:52 am on Mar 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hi amythepoet,

First thing I saw was that you have repeated the meta description and keywords tag twice on the index page with roughly 70 keywords in each case both identical to each other (This would fall into spamming) I would remove this to only one of each, remove the duplicates from under your <style> and perhaps reduce the amount of keywords here.

Good news is that you link from the index to the flash site with an <a href> to another HTML page with your flash movie contained within. Here we seem to have a mix between HTML and the link to the flash movie, along with a few external links to what I would assume to be your links that you are concerned about. I am not a expert with flash and therefore not really sure on how the SE’s would tackle this page, but apart from that all else looks fine.




 1:02 am on Mar 16, 2003 (gmt 0)


thanks, so if my designer were to fix up the meta tags and descriptions like you said, would I be o.k. as is or should she do something else?

Alternative Future

 1:10 am on Mar 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

No problem ;-)

If she was to remove the duplicate meta's (personally I would chance it) monitor it over a google dance and see what happens if the results are not as good as you would expect then perhaps a little tweak here and there wouldn't go a miss...

[added]Keep watching for tips on here and use anything that might fit into your current layout also[/added]



 1:20 am on Mar 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Thanks so much :)


 1:27 am on Mar 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

So you're saying that because the index page is done in html, that the search engines will find me?

Alternative Future

 1:35 am on Mar 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

No! (if only it was as simple as that :)

What I am saying is that your index page links to another HMTL page that contains content, SE's will prefer that to an index page with just a link to a flash movie.
The search engines finding you are the start of another task ahead for you :)
Links from other websites that are already linked in SE's will assist in them *finding* you along with many other factors such as PFI etc can also assist. Searching WebMasterWorld on getting the search engines to find my site will also give more information on how to achieve this :)



 1:39 am on Mar 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

I still am confused

You're saying that my index page should link to another page that contains content, rather than the way it is now , right?

So that would mean only adding one more page and have that page be in html, is that correct?

Alternative Future

 1:50 am on Mar 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

No... as your site stands the index page currently links to another page called flash.html which contains the content, so it is ok in that regards.



 1:55 am on Mar 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hey amythepoet,

Here is a thread that bundles the most current information about Flash and how it applies to the engines.

You should have a way for people to view your site without needing Flash. You can do this with creating a basic HTML site that has a link off the main page that is not Flash based. You could also test for Flash capability and server up what is needed. Just offering a link to download Flash doesn't help. Bots can't get the plug in.


 2:06 am on Mar 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hi Korkus,

Thank you for your note. I just heard from my designer and she wanted me to ask you this:

What if we put more content into the index page, rather than just links to your flash.html (your main content) like it is now? Say you write an overall introduction about your website, what the website is about and so on, on your index page, and with link at the buttom to your flash.html?

Will that work? Please say YES!


 3:12 am on Mar 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

You need to consider every page as a lottery ticket. The more pages the more chances to win. If you just want to make a great index page that is fine. The only problem is that you are narrowing your chances of getting visitors to your site. If you wrap all your content in a Flash movie then you basically have one ticket. There is nothing wrong with a Flash site if you have a part that will allow users who don't have Flash, including googlebot, to read it.

If you haven't yet i suggest you read Brett's article on 15 thousand users a day in 12 months with google alone [webmasterworld.com].

It really depends on how much content you really have. I use Flash on a lot of sites. I just make the content in HTML with navigation and frills in Flash. That way the entire site is not bundled on one page, but across many lottery tickets.

A successful web site is constantly adding valueable content. Sites need to have new and fresh information so you can build a traffic based with or without the engines. Having a Flash site is fine I would highly recommend building HTML content with it and make sure it is being updated.


 3:28 am on Mar 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Thanks so much Korkus. Now I don't know what to do with my present designer. I just sent her your note and we'll say what she says. What about if we make some of the pages into html, so that the googlebot will find me, plus the links pages in html, I just wish she had consulted me first before she went ahead and did the flash. Also, on the flash, nothing flashes! I don't see why she used this flash business at all. I'm disgusted!


 3:38 am on Mar 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Don't be disgusted. Flash is an incredible tool. It just needs to used wisely. Most designers do not consider search engine optimization so an all Flash site is much better than an HTML one aesthetically.

>>nothing flashes

Flash is just the name of the product. It doesn't have to Flash. It is a way to create stunning visual effects that almost all internet users can see. The only problem is search engines haven't really learned how to read it. I would work with your designer to create something visually appealing while making a site that will perform well in the engines. It will be great experience for the designer and you will have a better site than you would have had with another designer who wouldn't have used Flash. Send your designer this URL. We are always happy to encourage growth here.


 4:00 am on Mar 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Thank you again Korkus. I will try again with this designer and hopefully we'll be able to follow your directions and come up with something.

Good night.

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