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Well guys, I have to say, I don't agree with your defence of Google. I know this is not a legal forum, but I just want to put the record straight.
1) Every man has a responsibility to another. It's called tort. Whether one man pays the other or not. It's not normally applied to financial loss, but can be in the case where it can cause complete ruin. I don't know if it exists in US law but it is commonplace in Europe.
2) We don't pay to go into google's index, but we do offer a legal payment, called a "consideration". We provide content. Many companies pay for content. Google gets it for free.
Just thinking out of the box guys. The small man needs a voice too. No need to reply to this message (unless you work for google). I don't want to change the forum subject.
I don't believe in hoarding links, I figure if a visitor finds a link to what he is looking for, they may come back. Chiyo has it, content matters. Even sites selling goods and services can offer good information - it may require rethinking their web site - too often they think in terms of the web being advertisements, and Google ought to rank their advertisement highly. I don't think so. Provide a lot of good information about the product, or the subject, or how to use it, etc, and you have content worth ranking. If you want to advertise, pay for it. The "consideration" a website provides is content, the visitor pays for that with their attention. Google is just a facilitator. Imagine a web without search engines when feeling ungrateful.
>>>>if you do get PR0 it is surely your own fault.
Err...how many times have we seen GoogleGuy write, "I don't understand why you have PR0, you'll be back in the next update?"
When some people say they have PR0 they meant a greyed out bar (not ranked by google) which you get when google misses your page for whatever reason...what I meant by PR0 is when the bar is white so google has ranked the page and gave it 0 for whatever reasons, cross linking, spam etc.
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Back to the pagerank thing. One of the most competitive search terms in the world is "las vegas hotels". You just have to check Overture to know that.
The number 3 listing has a pagerank of 4. Does anyone really believe pagerank is the determining factor in your Google listing?
the catched page gives you one reason why that ranks high....optimized the search term quite well + there are many other factors apart from PR to why sites rank well....on many other threads about Google.
Page rank does matter though, just look at the 1st 3 sites at the top, PR8 PR7 PR7.
A person goes to university, gets a Bachelor degree, goes on and gets a masters, and studies a specific field for a PhD.
All the while working to earn a living and to receive practical experience.
Picture Yahoo as this normal model.
Another person goes to university and drops out shortly after because an opportunity came up and ... imagine ... what if I can do it another way!
Microprocessor ... Software ... Microsoft! (google ... maybe!)
My point - You pay either way.
I paid Yahoo to get listed and take a risk that I will have a listing ... Yahoo pays Google and out of my money I paid them ... but I still have the learn alot or paid more to get good listings in Google.
So which one is the better model ... same same!
Err...Zips, I know what I'm talking about, mate. I was talking about PR0 not the greyed out bar. Google has and does wrongly PR0 sites. Ask many members of this forum.
Ok backus i was mearly pointing out that you cant have a livelyhood purely on the back of google referals.
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<Page rank does matter though, just look at the 1st 3 sites at the top, PR8 PR7 PR7.
Exactly my point. If a pagerank 4 can be next to a pagerank 7 and 8....on a super competitive seach term? What value is pagerank? You are right Zips. It has SOME value. The whole thing looks like a wild goose chase to me :o(
Yup its good fun isnt it :D
Agreed. Sites with lower PR beat my site. In most cases a non-commercial site will do better than a commercial one.
I've beat Jakob Neilsen out on one search term, his was remotely, vaguely related and my site was right on target, very specifically. That was a 5 against what I remember being an 8. It's a combination we won't be able to figure out, but Page Rank is still foundational to Google's scoring - that's how he got there with a low percentage of relevance. And thare are other sites with higher PR lower yet.
But it's still important to establish good linking, it's an interconnectedness that has a relevancy of its own if it's done right. Not easy or pleasant for some people, but the web is not made up of disconnected islands; hyperlinks are the core concept of the web, which is what differentiates it from the linear quality of books. Maybe that's why it's called the "web" - it's woven together like the points of a spider web where they interconnect. And now that I think of it, why are bots called spiders and why do they spider sites?
Don't forget, it's all relative to the SERPs.
Too much time is wasted chasing PR.
GG and Chiyo's advice is sound.
Finding good linking partners is the way to build PR. We all know that. I also agree with the concern about small business taking the hit from changes in Googles algo. This seems particularly true for small business that rides the wave but donít know how they even got on it, come to depend on it and then itís snatched away from them. I think weíve found new members here at Webmaster World because of that very scenario.
So, I think one solution to the problem is to find the right link partners. Perhaps defining what the right link partner might be for your particular niche. Weíre talking about hunting for great PR here but what about taking that to the next level?
Weíre always chasing after something. Doesnít anyone put time into planning and strategy any more?
When I Ďhuntí for PR, and of course I do if I want my clients to be happy, I start first with a plan. Iíll not give it all away but I donít think it hurts to consider a few basic things.
1.Define your niche.
2.Investigate the industry that your niche sits in.
3.Understand your competition.
4.Know your client.
5.Whereís the traffic.
6.Who feeds whom?
I try to find PR that converts into traffic not just link for link sake. If Google has a huge hiccup then at least there is still the traffic. The business wonít die. And establish a relationship with the link partner. Honestly itís about networking more than links and PR. Has anyone here ever belonged to a networking group? Investigate those in your community. Itís a great way to bring in business. Consider the principles they work under and apply them to your quest for linking networks on the web.
I thought this discussion Increasing Traffic from Reciprocal Links [webmasterworld.com], had great potential to take us to another level with our link quests. Perhaps there is still a chance for it.
I'm new here at Webmaster World and I have a few questions that I would make things a bit easier for me to understand.
How do you find out what PR score you have?
My site has about 600 html pages, and I get about 100 visitors from google daily and another 100 from Yahoo. Did I do a good job or could I do alot better? Might be a stupid question but I will appreciate any answer,
We don't pay to go into google's index, but we do offer a legal payment, called a "consideration". We provide content. Many companies pay for content. Google gets it for free.
So if Google decides it doesn't want to use your content, the fact that you offer it obligates them to give you what you want?
Ouch! I think your logic just gave me an aneurysm.
As I read through this long post I see many of the members here on webmaster world ask the question: "will this get me banned" or "does this get me banned"? Ect ....
Personally I really see nothing wrong with trying to fully understand the best "I" can how google works and why it finds one site more relevent than another. Using this information in a positive way, by not trying to "trick" the search engine but rather work with it. Give the people what they want, if they are asking about basil, tell them all about basil. Then do it in a way that google will "like".
Add some good inbound links to increase pagerank, and try to minimize links going out. Does that mean "hording links".... I don't think so in my book. It simply means trying to save that pagerank to supply YOUR pages to help people find your site and the information THEY are looking for.
Seams like a nice simple plan for a successful site.
Welcome to WW. As you may have noticed "hot" discussions about Google Page Rank are not uncommon on this forum. You can get the PR by downloading the Google Toolbar [toolbar.google.com...]
As far as your other questions are concerned, you would be better off starting a new thread - people are very helpful here, even (especially) to newbies, but your questions don't quite line up with this thread.
Yes, I guess my last question was a bit off topic...but anyway thanks for your answer, I'm downloading the toolbar now :)
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<So if Google decides it doesn't want to use your content, the fact that you offer it obligates them to give you what you want? >
He he. I am already in trouble with the moderator for talking about law in the wrong forum. You know law has nothing to to with logic :o)
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