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google gets in the spam business?
if you haven't disabled content targetting yet...
rich42

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6 posted 8:16 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

from the recent 'Google AdWords Announcement' e-mail:

...your contextually-targeted ads will now show alongside approved newsletter and email content, such as iVillage newsletters and our new Gmail.

I've gotten some traffic from content targetting which is decent quality - but I think I'm going to have to turn it off now.

I'm sure google checks the newsletters for triple-opt-in / etc. - but a quick search of the usenet shows an awful lot of people who seem to think they've never signed up for ivillage.

At best this is going to add a bunch of junk traffic.

At worst I'm going to get labelled spam supporter.

 

bluelook

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6 posted 8:23 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

>At worst I'm going to get labelled spam supporter

I donīt think so. Because if that happens, Google would also be, isnīt it? And Google doesnīt want that.
Maybe there should be a 3rd Content Target option. If so many advertisers are disabling content targetting because of that, that will kill adsense.

MarkHutch

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6 posted 8:27 am on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Now the adsense email from earlier today is starting to make sense.

madman21

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6 posted 1:03 pm on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Lol. That e-mail made me try content out.

steve40

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6 posted 1:25 pm on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

Me the opposite after ivillage info turned content off on all my adwords, I do not like spam mail and have never and will never send advertising out through email so unless i can stop any of my advertising revenue going through email will not use content in future
steve

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 6 posted 1:31 pm on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

I've gotten some traffic from content targetting which is decent quality - but I think I'm going to have to turn it off now.

Google's new variable pricing scheme for "content ads" should allay your fears. It may not be as good as letting advertisers select where their ads run or don't run, but it should do a much better job of tying cost per click to quality of leads than the existing "one bid fits all" model.

258cib

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6 posted 2:32 pm on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

efv wrote:
Google's new variable pricing scheme for "content ads" should allay your fears. It may not be as good as letting advertisers select where their ads run or don't run, but it should do a much better job of tying cost per click to quality of leads than the existing "one bid fits all" model.

This is the best comment I've seen on these emails from G.

And, who knows, it might be better than the marketer targeting specific web sites. G is going to let formulas do it all.

AdWord marketers would be wise to read the response from publishers to these annoucements on this thread:
[webmasterworld.com...]

All in all, G is trying to bring in higher quality ads and higher quality web sites to their program. For example, they would like the New York Times to run the ads at the top of the page more often, instead of the bottom. (Placement has a huge impact on clicks.)

Sites such as the Times are looking at the $, of course. But, they are also looking the quality of the ads. (I believe this was a prime reason the Wall Street Journal selected Overture over Google recently.)

Quite frankly, this changes the game entirely for ads in context with the editorial. Whatever conclusions you've reached in regards to AdSense need to be seriously re-examined. It's a new ball game. Indeed, I think we've gone from the gentle sport of baseball to rough and tumble pro football.

eWhisper

WebmasterWorld Administrator ewhisper us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6 posted 4:14 pm on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

I've been thinking about ads and Gmail, and after seeing the screenshot: https://adwords.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=6119&topic=19

I can actually see a benefit to this system. With many content sites, you don't know what type of traffic or targeting you're getting.

With this system, you're targeting an individual who is getting an email about something related, so they have some personal interest in what you're offering, as they are having a discussion with someone else about it. Right there on the screen is a relevant link to go look up a similiar product.

Now, I wish it wasn't part of the regular content system, so I could track Gmail ROI - but as an advertiser, I can see this being better than a lot of other content sites.

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 6 posted 5:37 pm on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

With this system, you're targeting an individual who is getting an email about something related, so they have some personal interest in what you're offering, as they are having a discussion with someone else about it.

Not necessarily. Let's say I get an e-mail from Aunt Myrtle that says, "I'll be staying at the Hotel Meurice in Paris next week." My gmail page shows an affiliate ad for the Hotel Meurice. Am I likely to stay at the Hotel Meurice just because I got an e-mail that mentions it? Hardly. And if I think "Gee, I wonder how Aunt Myrtle is blowing the family fortune?" and click on the Hotel Meurice ad out of curiosity, that click is a complete waste of money for the advertiser.

I'd guess that the quality of leads from gmail ads will be on a par with the quality of leads from forum ads. Fortunately, Google's new variable-pricing scheme should keep poorly performing gmail ads, forum ads, etc. from sucking up advertiser budgets faster than my new vacuum cleaner sucks up dog hair.

eWhisper

WebmasterWorld Administrator ewhisper us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6 posted 5:48 pm on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

By the same token, if someone sends me an email about this great new iPaq they bought, and I'm wondering what an iPaq is, I might see the ad, click on it, get jealous after reading about one, and then buy it myself.

I think that it has some potential - of course, I want to measure the ROI by itself away from the rest of the content sites to see, but the quality has to be higher than domain parking ads.

Unfortunately, as advertises, I doubt we'll be able to tell that we're only paying $x amount on Gmail, $x less on domain parking, and $x more on some other content site. So I'm not sure how much we'll actualy be able to tell about this new payout method.

It's still going to be that we can only measure ROI of all content sites, and not the various aspects that include content targeting that I think most of us want to know.

258cib

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6 posted 6:23 pm on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

I dunno eW. I have a Hotmail account that I have used forever. (It's my SPAM account for ordering stuff and newsletters.) Hotmail has my demographic data and could even filter my email some to see that I get a lot of tech and financial newsletters.

And, what ads do I see on this email account? Cell phones and "find a mate" offers. (I've been married for 30 years and I have a cell phone.)

I just don't see email ads working, unless they do some local branding, and they're not going to have a big enough audience in any single market to make that worthwhile.

The reason behind Gmail is very simple, therefore. I think there will be a search box on each email. It's just to generate traffic, nothing more sophisticated than that.

beren

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6 posted 8:21 pm on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

I've been encouraging advertisers to cast a skeptical eye at content ads. Maybe this will cause some to do so.

On the new variable pricing: it's always been possible to bid lower on content ads by putting them in a different campaign within your account. Have one campaign for search matches, with high bids, and another campaign for content matches, with low bids. Given the lower conversion rate from content ads (according to my stats, anyway), I think this is wise.

worker

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6 posted 8:29 pm on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

My guess is that hotmail and Yahoo mail will be under some pretty serious pressure, if G is able to use their content analysis algo's to weed out spam.

If they come up with a way to do that, I would bet that a lot of people will just stop using the others and set up a Gmail account.

I will.

258cib

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6 posted 8:30 pm on Apr 2, 2004 (gmt 0)


beren says:
I've been encouraging advertisers to cast a skeptical eye at content ads. Maybe this will cause some to do so.

On the new variable pricing: it's always been possible to bid lower on content ads by putting them in a different campaign within your account. Have one campaign for search matches, with high bids, and another campaign for content matches, with low bids. Given the lower conversion rate from content ads (according to my stats, anyway), I think this is wise.

And I think what G has announced today regarding different formulas for different web sites is saying, "Yup, beren is right on. This should address it." It's interesting how they have done it vs. what you did via different accounts (or what Overture did, offering separate contextual accounts).

It will be interesting to see what pros such as you think about it is a couple of months. In my way of thinking, Overture's method is better because the marketer can write the ads to be displayed in context to text, or to search. Google has made that more difficult for you beren.

yump

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6 posted 9:50 pm on Apr 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

Given the general publics' attitude to emails (especially with the continuing spam / fakes etc. from recent worms), it doesn't look to me as if advertising in the emails is the best idea in the world. People have 'switched off' to any email content other than the actual message, so either they are just going to take no notice or they're going to be irritated by any advertising. Its going to take a huge PR campaign by Google to switch them on again.

There may well be so few clicks that it won't cost the advertisers much, but if it devalues the Adsense ads, those clicks will suffer as well.

As an Adwords advertiser, I've found content ads. work quite well for us, but no way do I want our ads. lumped in with Gmail, until it turns out to be some sort of spam free guarantee for users which suddenly makes them pay attention and value the emails. Now if Google could attain the status of being recognised as spam-free by using some ground-breaking email source recognition system (or whatever its called), they could be on to something.

ThatAdamGuy

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6 posted 11:06 pm on Apr 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

I'll start off by admitting that I may be in the minority here on WW. I'm already wearing a shield to protect me from rotten Easter eggs being thrown at me :D (speaking of which, a Happy Easter to those of you who celebrate it!)

* * *

Currently, Google has stated that they will be discarding all 'targeting' information about each e-mail immediately after ads are served. This means that, essentially, Google's targeting algorithms work from a tabula rasa -- a blank slate -- each and every time a new e-mail comes in. Additionally, from what I understand, Google does not take into account the e-mail you send in its targeting.

This privacy-protecting but inefficient targeting creates two problems.

1) Google weights your friends' / newsletter interests more heavily than YOUR interests
I get a lot of marketing/career oriented e-newsletters. That relates to my 'job'. But when writing friends, I talk a lot about swing dancing and traveling and fitness issues and other 'non-business' stuff. Sure, my friends (usually) write me back, echoing many of the same interests, but on the whole, 80% of the e-mail I receive isn't about stuff that TRULY interests me emotionally. Whereas I learn a lot from CNET and other newsletters, most of my purchases are based upon my personal interests. In other words, Gmails lack of scanning of my outgoing mail creates a disconnect between what it thinks I'm interested in, and what I'm REALLY interested in.

2) Google doesn't get the big picture.
As I noted in another thread, a friend may write me about his recent golfing trip in Costa Rica. I like my friend, I am interested in going back to visit Costa Rica again, but I couldn't care less about golfing or nine irons or putting greens or any of the many other triggers in the e-mail that are likely to result in ads for golfing trips and golf paraphenalia.

If Google were allowed to build up a dossier on my interests... to better understand what subjects I typically receive and write about, then it would almost certainly know to show me Costa Rica and travel ads, not golf ads. By failing to see the big picture, Google is sending me ads that I'm not going to click on.

* * *

I understand, however, that not every Gmail user would like to have Google build and maintain a profile of them. Therefore, I'd like to recommend the following:

I wish for Gmail to have an option, defaulting to OFF, to allow Google to store targeting info on a user over time, which would result in better ad targeting.

I believe that this, as an option:
1) ...advertisers, because of increased ad relevance.
2) ...Gmail users, because they will see more ads that interest them.
3) ...Google, since the company would earn more in AdWords revenues.
4) ...privacy advocates, since this extended-profiling option will default to OFF.

* * *

What are your thoughts? Can you see any downsides to this option? Do you think it will, indeed, substantially improve ad targeting?

anallawalla

WebmasterWorld Administrator anallawalla us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6 posted 3:26 am on May 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

FWIW, very short "test" emails show no ads.

As an Adwords advertiser, I find that some campaigns do very well with content targetting.

PatrickDeese

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6 posted 3:33 am on May 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

Maybe if you get email with virus attachments you'll get to see Adwords for antivirus software. 0:)

ThatAdamGuy

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6 posted 5:11 am on May 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

Heh heh, actually... in YahooGroups discussion group e-mails, I've sometimes gotten AdSense ads targeted to the Yahoo ad in the e-mail footer (e.g., "Cheap Epson Ink!"), even when the e-mail was predominantly about, say, photography. Whoops! I definitely filed a bug report on that one :D

Then again... now that I think about it... ads for ink supplies in a photo-related e-mail are maybe not that far off, given how many folks print photos at home on their inkjets. Hmm.

BReflection

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 6 posted 2:24 pm on May 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

ThatAdamGuy you've seen Google's personalized search right? And we know Google and Amazon are in cahootz and Amazon must have had Google's permission to launch a9.com, which makes extensive use of tracking users to display more relevant results.

I'm sure Google has something up their sleeve, but I bet [and hope] that they will be very careful with it.

I have actually switched to using soley a9.com and it is building up a nice profile of my interests. I do lots of shopping with Amazon already so its not that big of a deal. This is just me though, and I tend to be more pragmatic than paranoid. =)

0.o

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