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This 228 message thread spans 8 pages: < < 228 ( 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 > >     
GMAIL - Google Announces Their e-mail service
Part 2
Chris_R




msg:1554182
 6:26 am on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Continued From:

[webmasterworld.com...]

Original Links:

[biz.yahoo.com...]

[mercurynews.com...]

[wired.com...]

[gmail.google.com...]

 

Mardi_Gras




msg:1554272
 6:47 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

>My opinion is that this is neither a joke nor a serious announcement -- it is just a trial balloon. It could go either way.

Interesting thought - although it would be a little embarrasing to back off now.

>That said, I sent them my email address, and I hope they run with this thing.

I'm curious - why? That question is not really aimed directly at you, Tom_Dalton, but at the many posters who seem to be endorsing the service. What is it about Google mail that makes everyone seem so anxious to give up their privacy rights to get free e-mail? It just seems to me that Google is asking for huge privacy concessions from users in return for a gigabyte of storage. I've got a few extra gigs of space right here on my hard drive - I suspect most users do. So what's the appeal?

SEOMike




msg:1554273
 6:49 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Ok ok ok... enough! GoogleGuy said it all!

I have to say, I am really enjoying all the news coverage of Gmail on April Fool's Day.

Does that leave ANY doubt that it's a joke? Come on. All this talk and speculation is EXACTLY what Google wants to happen. If it were released at any other time than about 30 minutes after midnight GMT, I might believe it.

Maybe this is a great marketing ploy to test the interest in this type of a service... OR...

Anyone think of this?

In the meantime, if you'd like to be updated about Gmail, feel free to submit your email address below

I'll bet tomorrow they send out an email saying "Gotcha"! This IS April Fool's day guys!

Chndru




msg:1554274
 6:51 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>I'll bet tomorrow they send out an email saying "Gotcha"! This IS April Fool's day guys!

Google's free e-mail service called Gmail, which will offer significantly more storage than Yahoo or MSN, "is not a hoax," said Jonathan Rosenberg, Google's vice president of products.

We are very serious about Gmail," Rosenberg said in an interview.

Forbes [forbes.com]

phew!

Mardi_Gras




msg:1554275
 6:54 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Delete - Chndru types faster than me ;)

Craven de Kere




msg:1554276
 6:56 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

zuko105,

Without knowing a whit about my business you are poorly qualified to say what is and what is not a good decision for me.

nanocet,

You are right, most won't care. They'll simply use a different email address or forego registration on the sites I administer.

But I do care, and the ability to target ads to the people I email is something I will not enable. That's why I will not be contacting anyone through gmail accounts.

Google will make a killing, most won't care about their email being read, the only real loser is the one sending mail to a gmail user, as they can have competitors and enemies deliver a message to their recipients.

It would be child's play to try to lure users into clicking on the ads and use the targeting mechanisms to discover who someone sends email to.

It would be hit and miss, but the potential is there.

"I can see that you are reading an email from Joe Blow. Did you know he cheated on me and owes me money"

Imagine that kind of thing targeted to your name, or to your business. Then along with your emails comes targeted messages from others.

zuko105




msg:1554277
 6:57 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Besides, if you want to come across as professional, do you use hotmail, yahoo, gmail, etc as your email for business purposes?

No, but your clients do recieve mail from those accounts.

Huh? When did 10 million people ever endorse this e-mail plan? How does using Google for search qualify as an endorsement of Google mail?

This Article puts daily searches at 550 million.
[businessweek.com: ]
Lets say that the average person (not anyone in these forums as we're searching all the time) makes 3 searches a day (fairly generous) makes 183 million users. It can be argued that Google has 30% of market share (searchers that go to Google's actual site) so searchers loyal to Google come to roughly: 55 million. Say 20% of those people sign up for 1 gig of storage, 10mb emails, and search capabilities. That's 11 mil roughly.

>There exists those same abuse potential in yahoo and msn email.

No there doesn't - not even close.

Anyone, please feel free to back any of your statements up with fact, or urls to articles, or just go the lowly route and refute someone else's post without any knowledge of business.

I think business knowledge would be a nice compliment to webmaster knowledge for some people here.

One last thing to Craven de Kere: A simple rule of economics:
If you have a better product, then the consumer will be your customer. Period. Why are you scared of someone luring away your customers? Poor product or too expensive (meaning you're not competitve) are the only two reasons why consumers switch brands.

Which is exactly why you can expect a massive amount of users on this email service. (Free and extremely better product). If you think ads along the side of the screen deter users, then why does everyone already use google as their preferred serach engine (or any search engine for that matter).

Zuko

[edited by: zuko105 at 7:02 pm (utc) on April 1, 2004]

[edited by: Chris_R at 9:23 am (utc) on April 2, 2004]
[edit reason] Removed one nasty sentence [/edit]

SEOMike




msg:1554278
 6:58 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

We are very serious about Gmail," Rosenberg said in an interview.

Well, maybe it IS genius to release it today to get all of the attention. But I won't believe it until I have an account LOADED up with files.

SEOMike




msg:1554279
 7:00 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Should have kept reading my post genius.

Easy there Zuko... we're all friends here!

Mardi_Gras




msg:1554280
 7:01 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Perhaps politeness and respect for fellow members - something notably lacking in your post - would be a good thing as well.

[edited by: Chris_R at 9:24 am (utc) on April 2, 2004]
[edit reason] Removed quote as Mardi is Right - Let's Keep it Civil [/edit]

Tom_Dalton




msg:1554281
 7:02 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

1. I really don't see that the privacy issue is any more serious than with Yahoo or Hotmail or any other system that offers to store my data for me. Anybody at Hotmail could look at my email, and if I store anything sensitive there, I am effectively opening it up to scrutiny.

I don't even see it as a huge privacy risk that Google is going to 'read my mail' -- all they are doing is running their adsense analysis on the processed page they serve me that has my email included on it.

2. I also have more space on my local machine than I know what to do with, but I don't have a static IP address (cursed ISP!). If Google is offering me a free gig of reliable, easily accessible storage space, great!

3. I like Google, and I don't like Microsoft. It's a ridiculous, personal bias. I'd like to think that Google can *beat* Microsoft. If people switching from Hotmail to Google mail will help, I'll go as far as sending my email address to Google and using their service to assist. I think there are a lot of people who have at least a passing interest in the idea of doing something to tweak Microsoft.

That's my take on the issues, anyway.

techrealm




msg:1554282
 7:03 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hmm all I use my free email accounts for is storing useful but not sensitive tidbits, nonserious chat, and ummm - all those free personal ad replies so I dont get fired for using my work email accounts. So I guess all my ads will contextually based upon my "relationship seeking". ;) I wonder if setting my safesearch settings to filtered will make it more boring...Whatever, if its that sensitive - and you know better don't do it. And as for not deleting a single email - what a boon for divorce lawyers!

zuko105




msg:1554283
 7:03 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

My bad SEOMike
and Mardi_Gras

Unfounded statements and poor knowledge of subject get my passion for business going.

I digress.

Imaster




msg:1554284
 7:07 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Motley Fool claims that it just another April Fool's
[fool.com...]

What if Jonathan Rosenberg wants to keep all of us in dark until 2nd April?

Craven de Kere




msg:1554285
 7:10 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

zuko105,

I would be wary of an appeal to "facts" if I were you. Your contention that Yahho and Hotmail will follow suit is one devoid entirely of fact and based entirely on feckless conjecture.

Secondly who said I was afraid of losing customers? Again you make sweeping assumptions while ironically donning the mantle of factual basis.

The possibilities for abuse are endless, it's not just about competitors but simply abuse.

Let's say you piss off an ex. That ex can use the targeting system to send a message to the people you contact.

Tom_Dalton,

I don't mind the privacy implications. HEck I would use it if I were into webmail.

The differentiating factor between this and hotmail, to use your example, is that when I send a message to a hotmail user others will not as easily be able to deliver a message (in the form of an ad) together with my email.

With the contextual email advertising, anyone can decide to target messages to your recipients.

[edited by: Craven_de_Kere at 7:14 pm (utc) on April 1, 2004]

[edited by: Chris_R at 9:27 am (utc) on April 2, 2004]
[edit reason] removed response to something else I removed [/edit]

Chndru




msg:1554286
 7:10 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>Jonathan Rosenberg wants to keep all of us in dark

They have an enormous credibility at stake. I am convinced it's for real.

Come to think of it, some SpongeBob fans know how squid pushed the edge of his April Fool's jokes on spongebob.

Kirby




msg:1554287
 7:14 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

>No, but your clients do recieve mail from those accounts.

Yes, but what's your point? Is it fear that your client may actually see an ad for a competitor? That will happen anyway.

Mardi_Gras, the only attraction is as an alternative to a Y!, MSN or Hotmail account that wont be over quota 30 minutes into each day. I certainly wont use it for business. For me its a throw away email, just like the one I submitted for personalized updates and gmail. I have several different emails and use them for specific purposes.

As a victim of ID theft, I border on paranoia anyways, so I agree with all of the privacy issues. But what can we say other than that some people are stupid and dont understand how powerful information is. Some people cant wait to let M$ index their hard drives, they use wireless without safeguards and give their SS# to whoever asks.

The feds will love this, though.

[edited by: Kirby at 7:17 pm (utc) on April 1, 2004]

zuko105




msg:1554288
 7:14 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

IMaster
tagline from the editor of that article:

Alyce Lomax does not own shares of any companies mentioned. She'd ditch her free Yahoo! account for a gigabyte of storage space.

See Craven de Kere,
Even a failed marriage wouldn't keep users away from this service.

Simple rule of economics.

Craven de Kere




msg:1554289
 7:16 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

zuko105,

See what? I said that it will be a success and that Google will make a killing. I have no doubt about it.

What I DID say, is that I do not plan to send any emails to gmail addresses.

ganderla




msg:1554290
 7:19 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

[finance.myway.com ]

This says it is real.

Not a hoax says VP

zuko105




msg:1554291
 7:20 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Craven de Kere:
I plan to block their email domain from any mailserver I run.

Craven de Kere:
What I DID say, is that I do not plan to send any emails to gmail addresses.

Well, which is it?

Facts are a wonderful thing.

Yes assumptions are tempting, but educated assumptions are even better.

I was also referring to your business. I don't want to see someone hurt in any business due to a poor decision, especially within these pages. The people here are right, we're all friends, and I'm offering you my argued educated opinion. Its obvious coupled with whatever service you offer, you host mail servers for them. Why would you block any gmail accounts? I personally think that would be absurd and deter your customers from becoming repeat customers.

[edited by: zuko105 at 7:24 pm (utc) on April 1, 2004]

Craven de Kere




msg:1554292
 7:24 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

zuko105,

Neither are mutually exclusive

[edited by: Chris_R at 9:29 am (utc) on April 2, 2004]
[edit reason] redacted some bickering [/edit]

Sanenet




msg:1554293
 7:24 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Fascinating as the above flames are, can I just interrupt to quote:
"The notion that we're actually opening a lunar office is consistent with the spirit of April Fool's Day, and, yes, it is a joke," Rosenberg said of the ad[..]

Wow, he really felt the need to point that out? :)

zuko105




msg:1554294
 7:28 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)


My bad Sanenet. Last rant then I'm back to work.

Neither are mutually exclusive, any more unfounded assumptions you want to run by me?

You yourself said that Google will make a killing, meaning that the service will be popular.

Once again, I think it is an extremely poor business decision.

Tom_Dalton




msg:1554295
 7:28 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

So, maybe another useful analogy would be a conversation on a crowded subway. If I'm talking to someone about watches, and then a kid from the back of the train shouts out, "Cheap watches! Get designer watches for just $20 back here!" -- would that be so bad?

If I'm a watch salesman, I might want the kid to shutup. But I don't know that that's really something to avoid using the subway for.

Eh... Weak analogy, really. But almost there. I think.

Craven de Kere




msg:1554296
 7:28 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

"Its obvious coupled with whatever service you offer, you host mail servers for them."

No, I do not. This is yet another of those unfounded assumptions I spoke of.

"Why would you block any gmail accounts?"

I've already explained why. If you want the short version it is: because others can target messages at my recipients based on minimal knowledge about me or my businesses.

"I personally think that would be absurd and deter your customers from becoming repeat customers."

I know, and as I said you are poorly qualified to comment on my decisions and the basis is unfounded assumption.

Facts *are* nice. ;-)

SEOMike




msg:1554297
 7:29 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

"The notion that we're actually opening a lunar office is consistent with the spirit of April Fool's Day, and, yes, it is a joke," Rosenberg said of the ad.

And here I was polishing my resume. Darn. What a bummer. I was hoping to be Google's next space cadet.

zuko105




msg:1554298
 7:30 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

[redacted]

[edited by: Chris_R at 9:32 am (utc) on April 2, 2004]
[edit reason] off topic [/edit]

Craven de Kere




msg:1554299
 7:31 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Tom,

Let's pretend it's not about business. Would you allow me to attach my messages (which you would not be able to read or know about) to your emails?

Because of the predictabvle nature of contextual advertising, anyone can use the context engine to deliber messages to your recipients without your knowledge.

LAy aside business for now, as in business this is simply healthy competition.

LEt's say someone was mad at you and decided to deliver a message to everyone you email by targeting keywords such as your name.

Would that bother you?

Craven de Kere




msg:1554300
 7:34 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

zuko105,

when I spoke of mailservers I spoke of the ones my sites use to mail members. Several of my sites send out many automated emails a day that the users request. None will be delivered to gmail domains.

zuko105




msg:1554301
 7:44 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Several of my sites send out many automated emails a day that the users request

Thank you for clarifying this. My first reaction when reading this was "oh so you're a spammer, that explains everything". But lets assume these are true digests, whitepapers, news articles, etc to true subscribers.

If they hold a gmail account, why would you not send out these same emails to those subscribers? Its obvious that they already came to you to subscribe. If you're worried about competing advertising, the gmail user will already be accustomed to those ads, and if they are a true subscriber to your service, then no worries.

What are you going to do? Put up a disclaimer saying that you're scared of competing ad space to gmail accounts, so you're not going to send them anything at all?

I have that same service on 3 of my sites. Big deal! If you're not spamming them, then they requested your service already.

No worries Craven de Kere, you'll come around once the service is up and running.

As far as the disgruntled ex thing, I can't help you there. All of my ex's (live in TX :) just sign up my email address to opt in lists on your sites already..... sorry, just havin a bit of fun.

[edited by: zuko105 at 7:58 pm (utc) on April 1, 2004]

SEOMike




msg:1554302
 7:46 pm on Apr 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Several of my sites send out many automated emails a day that the users request. None will be delivered to gmail domains.

Yeah I could see that. I'd hate for someone to buy a widgit from me, then see an advertisment for a cheaper one.

Anyone given any thought to how ads would be delivered here? Would that open up a whole new bidding war in Adsense?

If it's real that is...

This 228 message thread spans 8 pages: < < 228 ( 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 > >
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