homepage Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 54.198.42.105
register, free tools, login, search, pro membership, help, library, announcements, recent posts, open posts,
Become a Pro Member

Home / Forums Index / WebmasterWorld / Webmaster General
Forum Library, Charter, Moderators: phranque

Webmaster General Forum

This 161 message thread spans 6 pages: < < 161 ( 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 > >     
Corporate SEO salaries?
I think I'm getting screwed...
SEOMike




msg:339351
 2:31 pm on May 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

Grettings all-

Seems to me that most SEO is done by private contractors / speciality firms. I work for one such speciality firm. I have gotten fed up recently with my boss giving just barely enough money to survive, so I started looking around. I saw that salaries for SEOs at companies was $65,000 - $80,000 (adjusted for Cost of Living in my area). I think I'm getting screwed.

The company makes enough money to pay me fairly. (Our boss makes more than all 5 of his employees combined, if that tells you anything about him) Oh, did I mention I'm the manager of all SEO accounts and an employee?

Anyone care to give income ranges that work for corporations? It's hard to establish an industry standard salary (like the designers and programmers here do for their pay) when you are in such a specialized niche.

[edited by: SEOMike at 2:35 pm (utc) on May 17, 2004]

 

walkman




msg:339411
 10:35 pm on May 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

SEOMike,
Your boss sets up the company, takes the risk, gets customers and hires you. You work for a day, boss charges $1000, you get $200. Let's not talk about days when there's no work and you still get paid. Eventually that will happen, at least for a while. You say I deserve more because you billed $1000 for my job. Can he hire someone else to do the same or close enough job you did for less, or $200? A lot of times setting up the right business is the key. Open your own shop and you'll see that not all the money that comes in is profit. Also, the money is not guaranteed to come in. Most people try dozens of times and even end up bankrupt before succeeding. Where, were you when he was let's say broke and living in a car? If it was easy, everyone would open up their own shops. 95% of people are followers, the rest take chances and lead. It may sound bad but it's the truth.

If you can make $50K a month with a part time employee doing normal clerical work, how much does that person deserve? Please answer this, does she deserve $10K a month for answering phones and filing?

SEOMike




msg:339412
 10:51 pm on May 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

If you can make $50K a month with a part time employee doing normal clerical work, how much does that person deserve? Please answer this, does she deserve $10K a month for answering phones and filing?

Did that employee set up the plans and strategies to make you $30k of that $50k a month? Are they in charge of the final product that you turn out to make the $30k a month? Do they attract new business, and troubleshoot your systems when they go down? Does that employee ensure that each step of production is being done to meet deadlines to keep that $30k a month coming? Did that employee take a department which was in it's infancy, and turn it into a mature money maker? If that employee left, would you be screwed? If so, then yes... Pay that person $10k a month, because you wouldn't have the $40k a month left over if it wasn't for them.

If they are an unskilled employee that has no major role in the company, pay them whatever you want.

I donít think you provided a very valid example walkman, and you are obviously missing my point. No offense.

isitreal




msg:339413
 10:52 pm on May 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

re digitalv's style: personally, I like having his postings here to read, I think it's good to get genuinely different perspectives on these kinds of issues, makes it more educational, even if not everyone agrees with the tone or attitude.

I have to admit, I kind of suspect that despite his harsh tone, he's probably a pretty good guy to work for, just a suspicion.

willybfriendly




msg:339414
 11:04 pm on May 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

re digitalv's style: personally, I like having his postings here to read,

I have this fantasy the digitalv is SEOMike's boss, and that they are both posting in this thread with no awareness of who the other person really is :o

WBF :)

SEOMike




msg:339415
 11:08 pm on May 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

I have this fantasy the digitalv is SEOMike's boss, and that they are both posting in this thread with no awareness of who the other person really is

HAHAHA Now wouldn't THAT be irony?!?!?!

walkman




msg:339416
 2:55 am on May 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

"I donít think you provided a very valid example walkman, and you are obviously missing my point. No offense"
the example was valid enough. She doesn't do all that stuff, that's she gets paid $12 an hour or whatever is the going rate. You do the stuff you said and you get paid $x a year, which a lot a lot than what she makes. Your boss streses a lot more and has alot more at stake so he makes a lot more. How much he makes, it really isn't your (when I say yours I mean any employees) business. You have a certain amount of skills and there's value put on those based on location, year, how google works at the time, etc. etc. etc.

Is it YOUR (and mine at my job) job to make sure what you said is done. You take a job, agree on the salary and if you don't like you go to the next job. We all have done it. If your boss found someone to do your job for half, he'd fire you and hire that other person. If someone offered you two times the money, you'd leave your current employer. Supply and demand.

On edit: There's nothing wrong with sharing the wealth and paying more when things are great. Any smart businessman would that, my beef is with people who say "My boss has a big house, and he's only paying me **** a year". If a rich guy sits down for dinner and you're waiter, you can't expect a $2000 tip on a $400 check just because he can afford it.

ogletree




msg:339417
 4:09 am on May 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

SEOMike you need to be very careful. What you say may not be true. He may be able to keep making that money without you. He must think he can do it or he would be more afraid of you leaving or he is confident that you would not leave. Trust me don't just quit. I did that in the past and really regretted it. It is often hard to convince other people how good you are. Have something concrete set up before you tell him off.

digitalv




msg:339418
 5:07 am on May 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

Well, looks like digital V. is a surly tuff guy! No wonder your business is failing!

I expected an ignorant response like that from the 20% guy.

I have this fantasy the digitalv is SEOMike's boss, and that they are both posting in this thread with no awareness of who the other person really is

Hahahahaha

Did that employee set up the plans and strategies to make you $30k of that $50k a month? Are they in charge of the final product that you turn out to make the $30k a month? Do they attract new business, and troubleshoot your systems when they go down? Does that employee ensure that each step of production is being done to meet deadlines to keep that $30k a month coming? Did that employee take a department which was in it's infancy, and turn it into a mature money maker? If that employee left, would you be screwed? If so, then yes... Pay that person $10k a month, because you wouldn't have the $40k a month left over if it wasn't for them.

I wanted to take a moment to respond to this one because there are a LOT of people who think this way - and none of them have ever owned a business, or at least have never owned a business with more than one or two employees. A lot of business owners start companies with this mentality and then quickly learn that it doesn't work for a number reasons. The first and most obvious that there is no such thing as "extra" money in a company unless you sell old equipment or cheat on your taxes. Whatever revenue your department makes is company income, whether it came as a direct result of your work or not.

If the sole reason for you being hired was to do exactly what you said above, and you accepted this job at your current salary with no raises or bonuses stated or implied, then you deserve nothing more than the salary you accepted. And likewise if your employer stated or implied that you would get a raise or bonus based on the performance of your department and doesn't follow through then he needs a reminder.

I say the things I say because I've carefully structured my company so that no one person is so important or overworked that without them the company would fall apart or lose enough revenue to worry about it. I would rather spend $100,000 on two people each doing half of the work than on one person doing all of it. The web developer (programmer), web designer, SEO, PC/Network tech, and department leader are 5 separate people. If I lose any one of them, I still have the others, and none of them are so swamped with work that they're miserable. They are each paid a fair wage for the AMOUNT OF WORK they do - how much revenue their particular tasks bring in to the company has no emphasis on their individual salaries. Each was hired to perform a specific job and each is expected to do so.

The smart thing for your employer to do would not be to give you a raise but to hire one or two more people to offset your load. From what you've said though, it doesn't sound like your employer is too bright - this gives you the upper hand, and also gives you a clever way to approach him to get what you want.

Write down a few thoughts (you know your boss and your company better than I do, so fill in the blanks) and put a formal proposal together for reorganization of your department. Point out in your pitch how much you're doing solo that if you were to get killed in a car accident that it would be really hard to find someone who knew the business well enough to pick up where you left off, etc. This will get you the "go on, I'm listening" look.

Show him how much money your methods have made for the company and ask for a budget of x% up to $y based on that revenue to spend at your own discretion to expand the department. Tell him you want to hire a couple people, who would be paid from this budget, to offset your load so YOU can focus more on (whatever you think you could be doing to bring in more money if you didn't have other B.S. tasks to deal with). At some point during this conversation you'll want to drop in something to the effect of wanting "a bigger piece for myself too".

If you approach it like this, you've got a really good chance of accomplishing what you want but still sticking within the parameters I mentioned before about rate of hire and all of that crap. The money you are making for the company right now isn't yours because you were hired to do that and it was part of your job. If you do this, you're changing the rules - you're bridging the gap between employee and manager/partner.

"Working your way up" doesn't mean you just do your job really well and hope someone offers you a raise or a promotion. It means you TAKE IT. If you pitch what I described and your employer doesn't go for it, then he's either an idiot or is happy with the size of the company/revenue and doesn't want to grow. In either case, you're not going to get where YOU want to be by staying there so I would suggest looking for another job.

For the record ... don't try to bully your employer into giving you a raise. If I was in a position where one employee was so important that losing them would spell certain doom for my company and they threatened to walk unless they got paid more, I would give them the raise but it would be extremely short-term. I would hire and begin training one or more replacements the next day and you would be on the street as soon as I felt comfortable that your replacement(s) could pick up where you left off. If a future employer called for a reference, I would be honest about the quality of your work but I would mention that you tried to muscle more money out of me.

Again, not trying to sound like a hard ass but I'll be damned if anyone will push me around :P

SEOMike




msg:339419
 1:54 pm on May 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

If the sole reason for you being hired was to do exactly what you said above

For the last time, I wasn't. I was hired to do just basic SEO. Now I'm doing all the stuff above, managing my underling, troubleshooting email, system problems, and a pile of other stuff.

My boss and I have talked. He said that he'd "do what it takes within reason" to keep me happy. Apparantly a raise isn't within his reasoning. Neither is health insurance, or any other benefits. (I'm paying over $500 a month for health insurance) He has a really large portion of his eggs in my basket, and business will take a major blow if/when I leave.

Since my boss is unwilling to pay me enough to support my family, I have started looking for another job and have started freelnacing to try to make ends meet for myself.

I did own a small business networking company for 5 years. I had 4 employees. I faced all of the same stuff, but I saw the value in my employees, and kept them happy. Production and earnings went up. I was approached for a buyout and sold. I kept the lion's share of the money, but made sure that I gave each employee a generous "thank you" at the end.($xx,yyy so don't tell me what I thought was generous wasn't to them) None of them lost their jobs, but kept working under the new management.

This thread has convinced me that most employers see employees as expendable. Pretty dissapointing. I guess I've been brought up with a better example. My dad's MULTI million dollar business is run by 8 guys, not ONE of them is unhappy with their pay. They have great benefits, gerat vacation, great holidays, company cars, and all kinds of other benefits because my dad knows the value of his employees.

I think I chose the wrong line of work. I should have worked for him.

paybacksa




msg:339420
 3:22 pm on May 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hmmmm.. you may be overlooking your biggest opportunity. If you Dad owns a successful business, why isn't he funding your startup?

Seriously... you only need 8 or nine months of float to get things going. Since you are all about performance, you can offer performance-based return on his investment. Since you already built, ran, and sold for profit a small business, you are heads and shoulders above the average start up investment oppty.

Not to mention you are family.

SEOMike




msg:339421
 4:08 pm on May 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

why isn't he funding your startup?

I have thought about that. My plan is to wait until I am confident that I have enough business lined up to quit my current job, then I'll persue an investment from him to help offset initial expenses of going to work for myself. He's very happy about my decision, and I'm sure will help when asked. I just want to make sure my ducks are in a row first.

willybfriendly




msg:339422
 4:25 pm on May 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

>This thread has convinced me that most employers see employees as expendable.<

This has been taught in business school for many years. Employees are "work units". Human Resource departments are trained to use employees as a resource. That is why there are so many Catburts around :)

It has really only been in the past decade that we have seen the pendulum swing towards "employee friendly" policies in larger businesses.

If your dissatisfaction is rooted in your own attitudes and expectations, a new employer probably won't help. The dissatisfaction will simply move with you. On the other hand, if the dissatisfaction is truly rooted in the work environment, sticking around may not be worth the gray hairs and high blood pressure.

You have no control over your employer and his policies. As many have said, it comes down to personal choice. Just be sure that if you leave that you are not taking the problem with you.

WBF

walkman




msg:339423
 4:31 pm on May 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

"This thread has convinced me that most employers see employees as expendable"
it's a fact of life. Works both ways too.

Visi




msg:339424
 4:45 pm on May 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

Good post digitalv...but missing one item which although implied is not stated. We all "invest" in our emplyees...for a return. It still comes down to the ROI numbers and when I can make more in other areas, then the current business becomes a liabilty not an asset. Although many of our employees feel they contribute more than what they are recieving we are only in a position to reward them when the overall profit margins are there to do this. Harsh realities do not allow us this opportunity at their discretion. Sales or dollar turns do not equal profits, and many employees do not recognize this. Never heard of the 20% fantasy before....and I think with good reason.

danieljean




msg:339425
 6:37 pm on May 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

digitalv- reading your post, it sounds like a solid win/win proposition.

I am taking at face value SEOMike's claim that he was seriously underpaid for his field. In this case, it is the employer that is muscling a better deal because there aren't many jobs locally. From the sounds of it, you are a good enough employer to understand that paying a fair market wage is a good decision, and I believe if SEOMike was working for you he wouldn't be considering going freelance. He would more likely be an "intrapreneur".

SEOMike- good luck and please continue to keep us informed as things progress!

paybacksa




msg:339426
 6:54 pm on May 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

isn't that why it's called a 'job" or a "position"?

Think about it.

There is a JOB available. It requires that you do THIS and you will be paid THAT. You take it, and do the job and get paid. If you stop doing it, then there is a JOB available. It requires that you do THIS and you will be paid THAT. You take it, and do the job and get paid. If you stop doing it, then there is a JOB available...

It really is that simple. If no one applies for the job, the salary gets raised until there are sufficient applicants to pick a good one. If you out perform the job, you are likely to find yourself OUT of a job... Better hope there's another one available doing what you now do.

That's why the government tries to reward entrepreneurs for "creating new jobs". They like to see "new high-wage jobs" better than "new low-wage jobs" because it leads to better quality of life, less dependence on government programs, and more spending and more tax revenue. That's why the economists track "job creation" and "job growth". They don't track "careers".

jaanis




msg:339427
 7:32 pm on May 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

Simple solution for unhappy employee's...QUIT and try to do it on your own. If you fail then you know you should have stayed in your crappy paying job. If you succeed then you know you were worth more.

Essex_boy




msg:339428
 8:20 pm on May 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

I worked for a guy for 8 years, S.O.B gave me one payrise in that time.

I was too timid and unsure of myself.

Shaft him and go do something more profitable. Dont worry about moralising - Its you and your family that matters.

The SOB I worked for? He used to give me the responsibilty to handle $750K a year in cash, none of which went through a cash register. I also dealt with his personal shop accounts, wine merchants clothing etc, you can guess where im going....

Last year in his employment, I have never been so drunk or well dressed in my life plenty of cash to spend too.......

Yeah what I did was wrong. So what he deserved it just dont get caught with what ever you do but hit 'em bloody hard.

walkman




msg:339429
 8:35 pm on May 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

"Yeah what I did was wrong. So what he deserved it just dont get caught with what ever you do but hit 'em bloody hard. "
If you did what you are suggesting that you did, you're a thief. No ifs or buts. There's no excuse for stealing. Why did you stay there for 8 years if you're so unhappy? Whatever happened to quiting?

What you're saying that unless the boss pays you what you think you deserve, you should steal to get back at him /make up the difference. People are in jail or in hospitals for things like this.

ronin




msg:339430
 12:40 am on May 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

Late to the party. I've just read the entire thread. It was vastly entertaining, especially the stuff by digitalv.

SEOMike, you sound like where I was about two and a half years ago. You are sufficiently disillusioned with your compensation to leave and you are multiskilled and experienced enough to be capable of doing so. If I were you, I would fire your boss and never look back.

I can't tell you how satisfying it feels knowing that I will never have to work for an ignorant, contemptible, shortsighted, exploitative fool ever again. Once you're outside the framework of somebody deciding what they pay you for your work and you put your skills to work for yourself - the sky's the limit.

digitalv




msg:339431
 2:38 am on May 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

This thread has convinced me that most employers see employees as expendable. Pretty dissapointing. I guess I've been brought up with a better example.

It's kind of a double-edged sword. I don't let my employees feel like they're expendable, but the long-term success of a company is based largely on the fact that no single employee can make you or break you. I never want to be in a position where if an employee was injured, killed, or quit without notice that it would hurt the company for more than a couple of days. In order for that to work the employees MUST be expendable.

Regardless, I still believe in paying non-sales personnel a fair wage based on the amount of work they do, not how much money it makes the company. I also give the sales people an option of a salary or straight commission. If you choose salary you still have a minimum sales quota and if you happen to secure a huge deal there is no commission or bonus.

One thing that's interesting to point out is that EVERY sales person who starts off on Salary and has landed a big sale has come to me and explained why they think they should get some extra money in their paycheck that week. And every time I remind them that they had the choice between salary and commission when they first came on. The fact that they have a steady paycheck every week, whether they do well or not, is the only "bonus" they get.

"Yeah what I did was wrong. So what he deserved it just dont get caught with what ever you do but hit 'em bloody hard. "
If you did what you are suggesting that you did, you're a thief. No ifs or buts. There's no excuse for stealing. Why did you stay there for 8 years if you're so unhappy? Whatever happened to quiting?

I agree ... you're a petty criminal, and it's not your place to teach someone a lesson. Especially when it appears as though you're the one with much to learn.

paybacksa




msg:339432
 4:51 am on May 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

perhaps it's a word to the wise for employers... if your employees are feeling like some people here are expressing, and you just ignore it hoping it will go away, it might be much worse for you.

That means you have to get them on board or fire them. That matches most of what has been said in this thread.

ergophobe




msg:339433
 4:02 pm on May 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

Poor SEOMike, his thread has been hijacked. The result has been one of the most interesting threads ever though.

digitalv

An employee's value to me as an employer may be much less or much greater than the average or the same person's value to another company.

That's probably the best formulation yet and I'll accept that over mine. What I was objecting to was the idea that one employer determined an employee's value in general. As I say, the market does that. As you say, no individual employer really cares about the market whatever that is, only his market.

digitalv

If one of my employees ever suggested that to me, he would be looking for a new job that same day.

digitalv

ask for a budget of x% up to $y based on that revenue... "Working your way up" doesn't mean you just do your job really well and hope someone offers you a raise or a promotion. It means you TAKE IT.
...
don't try to bully your employer into giving you a raise.

:-) I was thinking when I read the first comment that of all people, digitalv should understand that an employee is going to look for ways to maximize benefit and asking for a raise is a good first thing to try since it's the lowest cost to the employee. From further comments I see digitalv is responding not to the asking for more part, but the idea of trying to blackmail the employer: give me x or I walk and take all my expertise with me.

Digitalv, what would you think if that same excellent employee came in and said: "I have an offer that pays 50% more than you do. I'm on the fence about it. If I go, I'll try to make sure the transition is as seemless as possible, but in fact I really like it here and I'd rather stay. Do you think we might find a way to bump up my salary over the next year or so without me leaving this company?" Would you
- tell him he had 24 hours to get out OR
- tell him, you'll be sorry to lose him, but you just can't match that offer. If he wants to stay at his current salary he can.

As I mentioned earlier, my boss knows I'm looking, but he also thinks I'm the best person there is for my job (it's a very specfic, esoteric field and I am the best in the world at my job, it just doesn't happen to be a field that pays much). He doesn't have the money to hire someone to train while keeping me. He'd rather have the best while he can, and deal with it if I get a better offer. I think he's a great boss and would rather stick with him unless I get a much better offer. If I apply for another job, I tell him and he wishes me well. When he looks at the books and decides how much money he has to play with, he tells me. It's completely respectful and non-confrontational and that seems normal to me. I expect to leave eventually, and I expect to still be friends with him.

On the 20% thing, this might sound like great idea, but in practice it doesn't necessarily even serve the best interest of the workers. As an employee, you have to ask: is it better to pay employees 10% of x, or 6% of 2x? Frankly, everything else being equal (including dollar compensation), if I'm getting 1% of what the owner makes and I turn out to be really great, it's probably more likely that I will rise to 5% of the owner's take than that I will rise to 50% of the owner's take in the other job.

I think the % thing is a red herring. It may feel good, but I don't see any benefit that accrues to me. When I go to the grocery store, they don't ask for a percentage of my salary, they ask for an absolute dollar amount. I don't see any benefit to being paid a percentage of the top dog's salary.

I do see benefits to working for good management and for people who do not get huge bonuses by taking away salary and benefits from me, but by growing the company.


This thread has convinced me that most employers see employees as expendable.

SEOMike, if you won the lottery would you feel like, now that you have money, you should keep working for your employer, but for free because, you know, employers are not expendable? I love my employer, but frankly, as an employer, he's expendable. As a friend, no, but that's another issue.

digitalv

I never want to be in a position where if an employee was injured, killed, or quit without notice that it would hurt the company for more than a couple of days.

This is one of the key points of the Millionaire Mind book. There is no point, long term, in starting a business with the goal of financial independence if your business is going to be entirely dependent on one person, be it you or someone else. Not easy to achieve, but hats off to those that do!

Never heard of the 20% fantasy before.

Ben and Jerrys used to stick to a 10x rule (higest paid earned 10x lowest paid. Note, this did *not* include equity value, just salary). Costco caps CEO salary at 4x the salary of a store manager. Not sure how that salary relates to other employees. There are some other companies that do it (that carpet-leasing company that's so famous that I can't remember the name).

If you want to be utopian, how about this story of three men I know. Helmut worked for Sam who was hugely successful, but his family held all important positions in the small busniess and the others got regular cashier wages. Sam couldn't pay Helmut more but liked him a lot and invested in Helmut's new business. Helmut became hugely successfuly and had a salesman, Bob, who wanted more money. Helmut could not justify paying Bob more, but he liked Bob. Helmut invested in Bob's startup, which is now a successful business. All three are still friends and, rather than competitors, they became suppliers to each other. I like to think that when Bob finds a great employee with potential, he'll invest in that employee's startup. I would way rather have that than have 20% of Sam's salary.

[edited by: ergophobe at 4:09 pm (utc) on May 26, 2004]

caine




msg:339434
 4:06 pm on May 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

Mike,

at the end of the day you are employee, if you don't like your working conditions then leave, and become your own boss. You will see a different side of how a company runs, and if you've got the wits to deal with that then you should do well and prosper beyond!

Your boss will pay you what he thinks you are worth, its as simple as that.

Robino




msg:339435
 4:16 pm on May 26, 2004 (gmt 0)


...at the end of the day you are employee, if you don't like your working conditions then leave, and become your own boss...

Your boss will pay you what he thinks you are worth, its as simple as that.

Wow, the 25th person to say that! I think Mike realizes this.

Low wages and no benefits = GETTING SCREWED! He already said he's doing freelance work and looking for another job.

Kind of OT:
Has anyone read the book "Built to Last: Successful Habits of Visionary Companies"? Pretty good book.

danieljean




msg:339436
 4:35 pm on May 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

caine: Mike was self-emmployed before, and probably knows what it takes to run a business. His original complaint indicated he was being paid less than the normal market value for his field of work, and not enough to support his future family. We can't ignore that some bosses don't pay you what they think you're worth to the company, but how little they think they can get away with.

ergophobe- I think that's Interface

Perhaps one of the reasons those companies that cap their ceo salaries at a given multiple of their lowest-paid employee do so well is that a lot of people would rather support companies that are fair. Those companies I know seem to have lower turn-over and abseenteism and are more productive too. I imagine shrinkage due to employee theft is less of a concern as well, although I would never condone that.

Your utopian vision is very nice, and has some successful examples. IIRC, the biggest technology consulting group in Italy started that way; a company I used to work for was pitching their software to them for a joint venture, and they came back talking excitedly about their business model. They did not however offer to finance employee startups when they had to lay them off, although they could have all but guaranteed their success with their contacts. Why is it some people see ethical and profitable examples, but completely miss it when it lands in their laps?

HughMungus




msg:339437
 7:19 pm on May 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

If you don't take care of good employees with the mistaken impression that employees are a dime a dozen, you are a stupid boss.

But in some fields, they ARE a dime a dozen. Or a rupee a dozen. Or a rubel a dozen. Capiche?

Robino




msg:339438
 7:31 pm on May 26, 2004 (gmt 0)


But in some fields, they ARE a dime a dozen

Well obviously we're not talking about landscapers or grocery store baggers Hugh!

HughMungus




msg:339439
 7:47 pm on May 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

Well obviously we're not talking about landscapers or grocery store baggers Hugh!

Maybe you missed one of the early posts about the employer who rewarded his employees well, regrets doing so, and is now working on outsourcing his SEO work.

Mike, it's this simple: If you think you are worth more and can make more money, you'd be an idiot not to get more from your boss or go make more money somewhere else. Never, ever do more work than they pay you for.

SEOMike




msg:339440
 8:04 pm on May 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

paybacksa-
isn't that why it's called a 'job" or a "position"?

It is my CAREER. Let the government track JOBS... I'll keep track of my career.

hughmungus-
you'd be an idiot not to get more from your boss

I came here for advice on how to do just that.

Never, ever do more work than they pay you for.

Then how do you ever get ahead, get promoted, get a RAISE?! If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got....

KS_Katz




msg:339441
 8:21 pm on May 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

Story: When I got my first SEO job, I knew I was getting underpaid and accepted it because I wanted the experience. I gave myself a 1-3 year window to stick with the job because I wanted to make sure that I understood my position fully before moving on. Turns out that 1.5 years was enough to get me a better job and over time I've moved up in quality of job and quality of pay.

Moral: Don't focus on how useless your employer is (if you hate the job/pay). Use it for all it's worth and move on when you're ready. (SEOMike - It sounds like that's what you're doing.)

Note: My original employer lost 3 out of his 4 core people because of low pay/bad moral, which seriously hurt his business. Karma can be a wonderful thing.

This 161 message thread spans 6 pages: < < 161 ( 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 > >
Global Options:
 top home search open messages active posts  
 

Home / Forums Index / WebmasterWorld / Webmaster General
rss feed

All trademarks and copyrights held by respective owners. Member comments are owned by the poster.
Home ¦ Free Tools ¦ Terms of Service ¦ Privacy Policy ¦ Report Problem ¦ About ¦ Library ¦ Newsletter
WebmasterWorld is a Developer Shed Community owned by Jim Boykin.
© Webmaster World 1996-2014 all rights reserved