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This 32 message thread spans 2 pages: 32 ( [1] 2 > >   posting off  
Has Google become PFI?
blaze




msg:24392
 8:15 pm on Mar 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

Since you can simply buy a link from a PR7 website on a monthly basis and pretty much get crawled and ranked immediately ..

Isn't this PFI?

 

Robino




msg:24393
 8:19 pm on Mar 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

no.

blaze




msg:24394
 8:27 pm on Mar 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

I pay I get included, ergo I P.ay F.or I.nclusion.

Clearly, we must have different concepts of logic..

teeceo




msg:24395
 8:33 pm on Mar 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

I don't know if it is or not but "I like it:).

oilman




msg:24396
 8:36 pm on Mar 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

just a matter of semantics really I suppose - fact of the matter is you DO NOT need to pay to get into Google ergo it's not PFI. Just because you can buy a good link that triggers a crawl does not lead to the conclusion that Google is PFI. It's a false premise. You're setting a premise that the only way into Google is to buy a link and that's simply not the case.

blaze




msg:24397
 8:45 pm on Mar 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

Eh? Where did I say that was the only way into Google?

What you are doing is typically called the fallacy of denying the antecedent:
[en.wikipedia.org...]

Anyways, arguing aside, I think the sad fact is that Google for all its posturing against Yahoo, is just as PFI as Yahoo is.

Macguru




msg:24398
 8:56 pm on Mar 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

I dont see Google offering PFI services, therefore Google has not become PFI.

Jacques de La Palice could not have done worst. :)

[fr.wikipedia.org...]
[en.wikipedia.org...] (for English)

[edited by: Macguru at 9:05 pm (utc) on Mar. 15, 2004]

Robino




msg:24399
 9:05 pm on Mar 15, 2004 (gmt 0)


blaze, are you angry about something?
I guess I'm missing your point here.

There's no PFI program in place.
And you're not required to buy a link or even have a link from a site with PR.

LFI- maybe (link for inclusion).

trillianjedi




msg:24400
 9:14 pm on Mar 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

Since you can simply buy a link from a PR7 website on a monthly basis and pretty much get crawled and ranked immediately..

Isn't this PFI?

No, that's called manipulating the SERPS.

Or you could call it black hat SEO. It's against google's TOS and if you get caught, both sites will get ditched from the index.

A wholly different concept to PFI.

TJ

blaze




msg:24401
 9:22 pm on Mar 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and swims like a duck .. it is probably a duck.

And for the record, it most certainly is not against Google TOS to sell links on your webpages.

Chndru




msg:24402
 9:22 pm on Mar 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

But, how does Google distinguish between bought-links and naturally-formed-links? Is it even algorthmically possible?

Robino




msg:24403
 9:26 pm on Mar 15, 2004 (gmt 0)



Don't participate in link schemes designed to increase your site's ranking or PageRank. In particular, avoid links to web spammers or "bad neighborhoods" on the web as your own ranking may be affected adversely by those links.

[google.com...]

walkman




msg:24404
 9:28 pm on Mar 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

"What you are doing is typically called the fallacy of denying the antecedent"
I'll simplify it for you. Even if true, you're NOT paying anyone for inclusion. You'd be paying to rank better.

blaze




msg:24405
 9:31 pm on Mar 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

True, if it's a big topic leap, there might be a penalty but then you got to be pretty clueless to buy a link off a website unrelated to yours.

walkman




msg:24406
 9:31 pm on Mar 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

"In particular, avoid links to web spammers or "bad neighborhoods" on the web as your own ranking may be affected adversely by those links"
not from.
otherwise, what's to stop me from paying x amount to buy a link for my competitor and tell Google.

trillianjedi




msg:24407
 9:33 pm on Mar 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

it most certainly is not against Google TOS to sell links on your webpages.

I haven't looked lately, but I bet $1 it is if it's for the purpose of maniuplating the SERPS.

If you just want to get crawled and in the index, you don't have to pay anything to anybody.

If you want to buy a PR7 link to rank better, that's a different matter.

TJ

steveb




msg:24408
 10:25 pm on Mar 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

If it looks like a troll, quacks like a troll, and swims like a troll .. it is probably a troll.

feeder




msg:24409
 10:32 pm on Mar 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

between bought-links and naturally-formed-links

Doesn't matter if you paid for it, begged for it, traded something for it, or, heaven forbid, were actually interesting enough to attract it, the fact remains....it's just a link.

rfgdxm1




msg:24410
 10:36 pm on Mar 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

>I'll simplify it for you. Even if true, you're NOT paying anyone for inclusion. You'd be paying to rank better.

As the resident philosopher here, I must respectfully point out that may not be true. There is evidence to suggest that getting high PR inbound links may make Googlebot crawl your site more deeply than if you don't have them. Thus, if I have a huge site, and buying a link on a PR7 page gets my site crawled fully, I am indeed paying for inclusion. Of course it is not Google I am paying; it is another webmaster. However, the net effect is the same.

blaze




msg:24411
 10:39 pm on Mar 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

It is really interesting how it is usually the senior / preferred members on WebmasterWorld that waste so much bandwidth personalizing their arguments and veer off topic into attacks and generally content free statements.

One would expect quite the opposite.

I know my terminology might offend, but the fact is Google has significant PFI aspects.

Perhaps it's not something they market, but it's clear and well known fact that you can pay for inclusion in the Google index and get well ranked at the same time.

The interesting thing about this discussion is not really whether you can do this, but rather about the inevitability of search engine ranking being a result of how much you pay rather than how an AI engine thinks you should rank.

Liane




msg:24412
 10:54 pm on Mar 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

At this point, the question is moot as it has been answered correctly.

Google does not operate a "pay for inclusion" programme. You may, however, buy adwords which gets you in the door and I suppose one might mistakenly call that PFI.

You might also buy a PR7 link from any website offering links for sale. Regardless of what Google or anyone else thinks of the practice, it is really reaching to call that PFI because it might help you get your site listed on Google or any other SE. The point is, if your site has any links at all (paid or unpaid), a link is the minimum requirement to be spidered and possibly get into their database.

So what are you trying to get at?

pmac




msg:24413
 11:04 pm on Mar 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

>but the fact is Google has significant PFI aspects<

Whats your point? The new Y! has an algo that eats up links (paid for or not) in a manner just as voracious as Google.

The topic of the thread is:

Has Google become PFI?

The answer is no. Period.

Robino




msg:24414
 1:16 am on Mar 16, 2004 (gmt 0)


Hey all SE's are PFI then. Since you can pay a Webmaster to build the site!

walkman




msg:24415
 2:22 am on Mar 16, 2004 (gmt 0)

"As the resident philosopher here, I must respectfully point out that may not be true. There is evidence to suggest that getting high PR inbound links may make Googlebot crawl your site more deeply than if you don't have them. Thus, if I have a huge site, and buying a link on a PR7 page gets my site crawled fully, I am indeed paying for inclusion. Of course it is not Google I am paying; it is another webmaster. However, the net effect is the same."

True, but you CHOOSE to pay or choose to have a site that really sucks. Links will help you on all of above, but if you have decent site and link deep, Google will find, and index it. If you have a larger site, chances are that a few other people will link to you too. Also, that site was not built in a day (unless you have a ODP dupe) so Google will index it as you add more and more.

Let's say paying for a link helps it helps, but it's not PFI. Link to the main categories and Google will follow. Also, you can have that site link to you because they like your site, not just because you paid them.

I'm just talking about inclusions (PFI)...a PR7 helps on serps too...

EliteWeb




msg:24416
 2:30 am on Mar 16, 2004 (gmt 0)

I paid a company to put my sites in Google, isnt that PFI? ;) heheh all jokes aside it is not PFI. Its networking sites and linking if you can get x amount of people to link to your site and x amount of people have x amount of people link to their site the spider will connect to your site via the x factors.

powerstar




msg:24417
 2:34 am on Mar 16, 2004 (gmt 0)

<<<<It is really interesting how it is usually the senior / preferred members on WebmasterWorld that waste so much bandwidth personalizing their arguments and veer off topic into attacks and generally content free statements.>>>>>

Google maybe doesn't sell PFI but, Google's results has been sold for years. Ever try to get your site listed without SEO....good luck

Macguru




msg:24418
 2:37 am on Mar 16, 2004 (gmt 0)

That's Pay For Performance, nuance.

I see SEO as part of a team to build the site, just like a graphic designer or a writer. I still see PFI as a program between SE and client. Lets not call a platypus a duck, because of the bill.

powerstar




msg:24419
 2:49 am on Mar 16, 2004 (gmt 0)

<<<<The interesting thing about this discussion is not really whether you can do this, but rather about the inevitability of search engine ranking being a result of how much you pay rather than how an AI engine thinks you should rank.>>>>>

Like said, it will cost to get results from Google or from Yahoo. PFI. SEO, CPC it's not free. No search engine results are for free not even Google.

trillianjedi




msg:24420
 10:06 am on Mar 16, 2004 (gmt 0)

It is really interesting how it is usually the senior / preferred members on WebmasterWorld that waste so much bandwidth personalizing their arguments and veer off topic into attacks and generally content free statements.
One would expect quite the opposite.

And that isn't a veered-off attack, content free and waste of bandwidth?

;-)

You asked a straight question in order to promote some discussion on whether or not google is PFI. I think you got that. The fact that people don't think that it is doesn't invalidate their opinion.

Seriously, to me you sound really p*55ed off at google for some reason. By all means vent, but don't take it personally if nobody posts what you want to read.

Back on topic, you asked a very specific question - "Is google PFI" to which, IMO, the answer is a straightforward "No". However, if you had asked "Can I perform well in googles SERPS in a competitive arena for free" then I would say the answer is "probably not - go buy that PR7 link to get you started".

I think the reason the thread veered a little off-topic is because people felt that they couldn't answer your original question in such a simplified way (i.e. just "no") without explaining their thoughts on it, most of which enevitably relate to positioning in the SERPS, not just getting into the index.

I don't know anyone who's ever bought a link just to get into google. I know plenty who've bought links to improve their SERPS postioning though.

TJ

Liane




msg:24421
 10:26 am on Mar 16, 2004 (gmt 0)

I've never bought a link, I haven't paid Google for inclusion, I don't use any PPC programmes and the only PFI programmes I ever took part in were with LookSmart (and we all know how well that worked out) and once at Yahoo to have my site reviewed. My sites do pretty well thanks. ;)

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