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This 67 message thread spans 3 pages: 67 ( [1] 2 3 > >   posting off  
Paid but can't be found in Ink.
Should I pay again?
sachac




msg:17174
 6:24 pm on Feb 12, 2004 (gmt 0)

My site was indexed in Ink for a long time until it disappeared several months ago. I then decided to pay for it to be indexed.

My problem is this. My site name is www.brandwidgets.com. When I search for "brandwidgets", sites that list our products or have links to us show up but not our site. There is also no listing for us under "brand" or "widgets". Surely our site should be the first listing at least for "brandwidgets".

When I search for "www.brandwidgets.com" the site show up, which indicates that the site is there somewhere but not showing up.

Can anyone help me solve this mystery?

 

caveman




msg:17175
 9:36 pm on Feb 12, 2004 (gmt 0)

Since your site disappeared on kw searches a few months ago, buy you can still find it with a "www.mys*te.com" search, it's possible that you've suffered the dreaded INK penalty.

Anything come to mind that may have caused such a thing?

panic




msg:17176
 9:42 pm on Feb 12, 2004 (gmt 0)

When I search for "www.brandwidgets.com" the site show up, which indicates that the site is there somewhere but not showing up.

Sounds to me like you got slapped with an editorial action. If you're the only site selling your own brand of widgets, try searching for "brand widgets". If you're dead last, then you've got an editorial action.

If you're somewhere in the middle, it means you need to do some optimizing.

flobaby




msg:17177
 10:05 pm on Feb 12, 2004 (gmt 0)

Sounds exactly like my situation. I paid for my index and it never appeared in searches. After staying hugely annoyed for a month, I decided to take a different tact, so a few days ago I created another page with the pertinent content (not a duplicate, mind you, but designed to get the same traffic my index would have). Then I just swapped the URL for my original PFI to the new page, which is free if the page is in the same domain.

And voila! I'm listed where I want to be. I'm still miffed with whatever caused my index not to work, but in the end, it's all the same. So if you don't find resolution, I recommend you do the same. It works.

4crests




msg:17178
 11:07 pm on Feb 12, 2004 (gmt 0)

did the same thing as Flobaby a month ago.

It works like a charm.

panic




msg:17179
 11:13 pm on Feb 12, 2004 (gmt 0)

did the same thing as Flobaby a month ago.

I'm still lost as to what you all are doing.

4crests




msg:17180
 11:16 pm on Feb 12, 2004 (gmt 0)

just went into my inktomi account and switched penalized url to a different url.

4crests




msg:17181
 11:17 pm on Feb 12, 2004 (gmt 0)

But, now i'm having another problem. I can't switch any other URL's. I use ineedhits, and i used to be able to click on a url and update it to a different url. But, now it won't let me. I've emailed them MANY times with no response.

flobaby




msg:17182
 11:19 pm on Feb 12, 2004 (gmt 0)

Panic,

1.Ink hates my index page
2.I make a new page that represents the same stuff my index did (keywords, content, but not a duplication..don't need that penalty)
3.In the PFI control panel, I edit the PFI Url from widget.com, to widget.com/secondpage.shtml
4.It gets picked up, ranked and everybody's happy.

flobaby




msg:17183
 11:24 pm on Feb 12, 2004 (gmt 0)

4crests,
I don't use ineedhits, I have one on Lycos and one on Positiontech (because I was pissed at Lycos) but it's the same control panel for both, so I would have though ineedhits is the same. But you say you click the URL, on Lycos and Positiontech, you hit the "E" graphic to edit, so it must be a different interface.

I'm assuming you're keeping in the same domain, otherwise, they don't allow switching after the first 30 days (this, I'm sure you already know,so forgive me). So what happens, does it let you make the edit but not update or does it crash or what?

[edited by: flobaby at 11:33 pm (utc) on Feb. 12, 2004]

4crests




msg:17184
 11:30 pm on Feb 12, 2004 (gmt 0)

It used to let me change URL's. Now, when i hit edit, it has no place to enter a new URL.

flobaby




msg:17185
 11:38 pm on Feb 12, 2004 (gmt 0)

That's a new one on me! Weird. Maybe you should start a thread with "ineedhits" in the subject line so you can find out if anyone else is experiencing the same thing. Good luck to you though. Hope they respond to you eventually!

Warren




msg:17186
 12:33 am on Feb 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hi

ineedhits uses it's own developed interface and backend technology.

Recently, ineedhits.com went through an upgrade of its Inktomi (and other Paid Inclusion) technolgy, including a totally new front end.

New fuctionality was added - improved reporting, increased speed and new look and feel.

Whilst it is still permissable to edit URLs, this does now require an email to customer service. Please email ink.query@ineedhits.com with the URLs you wish to have replaced, and your account number.

Regards

Warren

panic




msg:17187
 1:21 am on Feb 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

Recently, ineedhits.com went through an upgrade of its Inktomi (and other Paid Inclusion) technolgy, including a totally new front end.

If you don't mind me asking, what "upgrades" are these (other than a new GUI)?

sachac




msg:17188
 1:45 am on Feb 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

"I created another page with the pertinent content (not a duplicate, mind you, but designed to get the same traffic my index would have). Then I just swapped the URL for my original PFI to the new page, which is free if the page is in the same domain."

This sounds fine, but what happens to the thousands of links to my original index page? This is what gives me a #3 ranking for "widgets" in 7 million results. If I swapped the URL won't I lose these links?

Also, we operate very ethically so I doubt there has been any sort of penalty.

Sometime ago however, we had the same problem with alltheweb and it turned out that they had applied an adult filter to our site because the title then contained the word "exotic". Can this be the case with ink?

flobaby




msg:17189
 1:55 am on Feb 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

Ahem, you can doubt there's a penalty, but my site is also completely ethical, non-spammy but for some reason, Ink gave the index a penalty. Someone was looking into it a few weeks ago to find the source but I never recieved a reason.

Changing a PFI page won't harm anything existing on your site and doesn't affect your links. There's nothing unethical about a non-index PFI page.

Incidentally, "This is what gives me a #3". If you are listed as #3 in Ink, I doubt you would have started this thread. Until you recieve a fix via Inktomi, you have nothing to lose.

caveman




msg:17190
 2:50 am on Feb 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

INK seems to be very sensitve to dup content penalties. And often even the most innocent can trip those. :-(

flobaby




msg:17191
 2:56 am on Feb 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

Exactly the reason I've mentioned twice that there should not be duplication involved.

Warren




msg:17192
 6:02 am on Feb 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

Panic

Whilst a large number of upgrades were at the back end to improve performance, there were a few customer facing upgrades.

The main was in the area of click thru reporting and how this data is presented. When producing a report, the user has the ability to download the report in 7 different file formats (Word, PDF, Excel, Txt, CSV, RTF and Excel Data).

Further tools and upgrades will be released in the future.

Warren

PS Feel free to sticky mail me if you want to take this discussion offline.

outland88




msg:17193
 3:01 am on Feb 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

I've done the change URL thingy at Positiontech a few times. It never worked for me. I think its more based on luck than anything with PT now.

Personally I think Yahoo is slowly pushing PT out of the loop. In my area most of the Ink sites have not shown updates since October 2003. A lot of these sites update daily. I updated one index page last summer and its still showing old title and metas.

flobaby




msg:17194
 3:25 am on Feb 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

Luck? I think the success of changing URLs is related to the depth of the penalty (whether it's on a particular page or an entire site).

panic




msg:17195
 5:34 pm on Feb 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

Personally I think Yahoo is slowly pushing PT out of the loop.

Out of the loop? PT is one of their prime resellers, so why would they be pushed out of the loop, much less after the certification process? (Assuming they passed... if they didn't pass, I'll laugh for days)

Luck? I think the success of changing URLs is related to the depth of the penalty (whether it's on a particular page or an entire site).

Penalties/editorial actions are always given on a per-domain basis. If you only have ONE spammy page out of like 3,000 good pages, your domain will have a judgement against it.

flobaby




msg:17196
 6:02 pm on Feb 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

Penalties/editorial actions are always given on a per-domain basis. If you only have ONE spammy page out of like 3,000 good pages, your domain will have a judgement against it.

I was actually told from an Ink guy that my index page had a penalty. If the penalty was on my entire domain, then I would think that none of my pages would appear in searches.

kanetrain




msg:17197
 6:45 pm on Feb 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

There are a few threads regarding this same phenomenon: the "vanishing index page".

My try at an explanation:
I think there are a few reasons that your pages can drop or disappear from inktomi. And it seems there may be a few different "spam penalties" and things that might be interpreted as such on Inktomi.

First, let's make sure we know what we are NOT talking about. Inktomi changes their algorithm (obviously) to show the most relevant serps and to get rid of spam. If your pages drop some in ranking this is usually just an algorithmic change (not a spam penalty). It's just the nature of search engines. Change your pages and they should start to rank higher. Spam "penalties" are different:

1. Editorial Spam Penalties (your whole site is gone). The dreaded Inktomi blacklist. If your blacklisted and your whole site is gone... that might be the kiss of death.

2. Vanishing Index page. This may be some kind of spam penalty too, but not the exact same as a complete editorial blacklist. With this one your index or home page has vanished (or perhaps another offending page) but the rest of your pages still show up. I think it's more like a "hard slap on the wrist". No matter what you do to change that page, it's still gone. I'm not sure if it's caused by something the actual crawler found or an editorial action.

That's just my opinion based on what I've read etc. I wouldn't take it as gospel. I hope it helps some though. Best of luck!

flobaby




msg:17198
 6:52 pm on Feb 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

So Kanetrain,
I was following your dreaded Ink drama, it was interesting since you got some actual customer service over the matter. Did it ever resolve or is your index still MIA?

kanetrain




msg:17199
 10:33 pm on Feb 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

MIA.
I think it's a spam penalty so I'm going to have to try and get it reviewed by Ink and reincluded. I truly have no idea why the spam penalty would have been placed in the first place, but I think it's there. I know that we are clean, so I'm hopeful.

MikeNoLastName




msg:17200
 9:32 pm on Feb 16, 2004 (gmt 0)

flo/kane, HOW do you actually manage to reach a real person at Inktomi or FAST to look into it? I can't even find a telephone number on their entire website, (even their search engine website for that matter).

Our primary domain was apparently banned a couple years ago, and it wasn't a real big deal since we were top of Yahoo and Google. But now it appears Yahoo is starting to shift to more Ink results and I noticed a marked plunge starting this weekend as we periodically disappeared from the Yahoo results, since we are not in the Ink index even after paying for submission.
Who in the world would deal with a company (like Ink/FAST) who charges for what most others give away for free, screws things up worse than they were when you started, ignore or refuse to respond to e-mails and make it nearly impossible to get in phone contact with them?

panic




msg:17201
 9:46 pm on Feb 16, 2004 (gmt 0)

I was actually told from an Ink guy that my index page had a penalty. If the penalty was on my entire domain, then I would think that none of my pages would appear in searches.

Not true. If you paid for your page to be included, you'll be dead last for just about any/every term, but your page will still be in the index. If your site was crawled/indexed for free, THEN you'll be kicked out of the index.

1. Editorial Spam Penalties (your whole site is gone). The dreaded Inktomi blacklist. If your blacklisted and your whole site is gone... that might be the kiss of death.

Again, it's only gone if your site was indexed for free.

I truly have no idea why the spam penalty would have been placed in the first place, but I think it's there.

Did those certain people ever get back to you to let you know if your domain was slapped with an editorial action?

I can't even find a telephone number on their entire website, (even their search engine website for that matter).

They don't give out the number that easily. :)

Who in the world would deal with a company (like Ink/FAST) who charges for what most others give away for free, screws things up worse than they were when you started, ignore or refuse to respond to e-mails and make it nearly impossible to get in phone contact with them?

It's not impossible for ME to get in contact with them, so I don't think generalizing and saying that no one can get in contact with them is unjust.

flobaby




msg:17202
 10:10 pm on Feb 16, 2004 (gmt 0)

Mike,
Actually someone on this board got in touch with me. He was kind enough to examine the situation, but it was never resolved, so yesterday I sent an email to spamcrusader to try to get whatever is on my index lifted. I have very little hope in resolution, but I have to try.

Panic,
You're splitting hairs. My other pages (free and the PFI one I swapped for the index page) are coming up in the first and second page of results. Whatever penalty that is on my index exists but it is not affecting the other pages. So even if the index page was in searches (the only way I could see it was to type originalurl:www.widget.html) if it's on the last page of 1,000,000 pages, there's obviously something wrong.

MikeNoLastName




msg:17203
 10:29 pm on Feb 16, 2004 (gmt 0)

I didn't say it was "IMPOSSIBLE for everyone", I said "nearly impossble" [for the average paying customer]<-implied.

You must either work directly for them or be a reseller partner, which implies YOU don't actually PAY them (your clients do). So this says, to me, the best way to get their support is NOT to pay them?

Their support page says:
Support Contact Information: Only viewable to customers with a current support contract who have been given a username and password. Includes e-mail, telephone and pager numbers.

If you go to the Support Contract page you get:

"Inktomi is committed to providing customers with technical support expertise to help ensure the uptime of our mission critical applications."

and contradictorily in the very next paragraph:

"Restricted areas of the support web site contain material intended only for Inktomi resellers or portal partners. If you are a reseller or portal partner, but have not yet received a login or your login is not working, please contact your Inktomi account manager for access update"

Netsol's "support persons" (who I PFI'd for the Inktomi Inclusion) weren't very helpful/bright. After a half-dozen inappropriate form e-mail responses, they finally "GUARANTEED" there was no penalty. I get the feeling, they "HAVE NO CLUE" what a penalty is.

Again, I say, why would anyone ever bother dealing with a SE who is this inconsiderate and associates with those kind of incompetent businesses.

So... why don't YOU give out the contact number Panic?

Also, By the way, the rule about your PFI being indexed at the bottom DOES apply to Ink, but does NOT appear to hold for FAST or Lycos. Our submitted page does not even come up under a search for the URL itself, in any way, there.

[edited by: MikeNoLastName at 11:07 pm (utc) on Feb. 16, 2004]

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