| 11:52 pm on Oct 14, 2003 (gmt 0)|
PFI is not relevant in my situation. All my missing pages have been found naturally by Ink. They have NEVER been in PFI.
I think this is another red herring....
| 12:29 am on Oct 15, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Janet is correct. The vast majority of my missing pages (and there are quite a lot of them) were not PFI. Actually only one was.
My advice is to assume they (the missing pages) are lost and gone forever. Build a new site for Ink. If they come back, all the better.
| 1:35 am on Oct 15, 2003 (gmt 0)|
makemetop, thanks for the information. That sounds pretty plausible.
As Alan Ginsberg said to me at a book signing many years ago: Ahhh...
| 3:41 am on Oct 15, 2003 (gmt 0)|
When you folks say "Build a new site for Ink," what do you mean? Do you just move extensive content to another similar domain name?
I don't understand why, but recently got a huge downshift in Inkie only.
Thanks, I'm a decent amateur, but maintain only my own professional services site. Literally abandoning my code and redoing an entire new site would be unimaginable with 40 pages of really good "#1 on Google type" content.
| 9:35 am on Oct 15, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I now see a few sites on MSN, br.yahoo.com (Yahoo Brazil), hotbot and other partners that have been bumped for no appararent reason, while many other similar sites have not been affected.
The critical question is why do the sites still rank well at the pure Ink search provided by PT but not at the partner sites?
Could it be that PT have an outdated index?
Could it be that the feed to partner sites was screwed up in some way?
| 2:39 pm on Oct 16, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Okay, been on holiday. Just found out about this. Ouch!
Having looked at a whole range of our listings, here's what I've found :
1. Since October 1st, almost all our sites have experienced a huge drop in Inktomi-related click-thrus.
2. Any of our sites built BEFORE May remain unaffected - MSN click-thrus still the same, same pages found on MSN, Hotbot SERPs, etc.
3. Any sites/pages built AFTER May have vanished from MSN.com and Hotbot.com, but are still in MSN.co.uk (+ Pure Inktomi)
4. This effect is NOT exclusive to PFI pages. We launched a site in June, done NO paid inclusion, and within a few weeks all pages were listed well in Inktomi (prominent in MSN.com, .co.uk, Hotbot SERPS). But Since October 1st, the site is NOWHERE in all these places.
This says to me this is an Inktomi issue, nothing to do with MSN (although I don't understand why MSN.co.uk appears to have escaped the knife). It looks like an algo change or a temporary experimenting with the SERPs.
My questions are -
Is this temporary?
If so, when will it settle down?
What's the reasoning behind the May cut-off?
Like most, I'm praying this is VERY temporary. It's looking very bad right now and my clients are going to be well cheesed off when they find out :-(
| 3:13 pm on Oct 16, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>I don't understand why MSN.co.uk appears to have escaped the knife..
It hasn't - it is just that the regional filter has considered you a UK site and the MSN US site has considered you not to be US.
I have also been told that regional relevancy was turned up on US, UK and other English language INK portals at the beginning of the month but some sites targeting the US market (.coms) have not been identified (mistakenly) as US sites and have dropped down the listings. An urgent review is apparently underway to ensure these sites are correctly ranked. Some sites (including a couple of mine) have disappeared into limbo - being .coms and neither deemed US nor UK - so rank in the top 5 on pure INK but in the hundreds on both MSN US and UK!
A request has been put in to Inktomi to identify what criteria are necessary to ensure that a site appears in the correct regional portal results.
But as I thought, this appears to be a geo-targetting glitch that has gone a little awry in the US.
This is an attempt to ensure that primarily US results appear for US searchers and UK results for UK searchers. Their opinion (probably) was that US surfers don't want to see a load of foreign sites when looking for stuff and other countries were tired of getting US results.
I'm not sure that this is the best way to do it (well, right now it isn't - 'cos it doesn't work properly) - but I understand the motives.
| 3:37 pm on Oct 16, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I am convinced that MSN or Ink is using geotargeting, as I have a .com domain and have dropped 50 or 60 spots in the USA despite being #1 in Canada.
Since MSM will continue to gain SERP marketshare, I am now force to setup web hosting in the USA, since 90% of our buisness is to the usa.
Has anybody done this yet, or have any other solutions. Can our ISP do anything to block geotargeting or profiling attempts by Ink or MSN
| 4:12 pm on Oct 16, 2003 (gmt 0)|
It seems like a lot of you are convinced that a foul up with geo targetting is the problem. But why are sites added after June the only ones being effected, then? If someone could explain this to me, I'd appreciate it.
Also, I just got a response from PositionTech. I know I can't post their response, so I'll just summarize and reword. (if anyone wants to read it, just sticky me)
They said that my url has been affected by a recent algorithm changes in Inktomi and they're very sorry. They also said it's possible that my previous rankings may return some time in the future.
So what's your take on this? Is this mysterious new algorithm change supposed to be this geo targeting your talking about? I'm glad they admitted something is going one, but they aren't very specific and they aren't offering any solutions. Also, I did ask them about specifically about MSN and HotBot, and there was no mention of them in their response.
| 4:41 pm on Oct 16, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I do not know how they are going to determine if a site should be shown on MSN US. Must the owner of the domain and host be in the US? There are American sites hosted in Canada etc. It would seem they would have to go through the site manually to see the target audience. The entire idea behind the internet - WORLD WIDE WEB - is global. "Geo-targeted" what a load of @#%!
| 5:18 pm on Oct 16, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Mona and Latenight: applause. It makes no sense discriminating com.domains (from non-US countries) in a globally connected (internet-)world nor is it intelligible that they initiate an algorithm change that only affects sites having been submitted after a fixed date.
I take care of a medical site helping people all over the world, written in English, but located in Germany.
Nobody can make me believe and accept that this site with expert know-how for patients, still ranking well in PureSearch (and as well in MSN and HOTBOT b e f o r e Oct 1) has lost its credibility and usefulness for US readers with one blow!
And there are many site-owners sharing my experience.
By the way: I still assume that the main reason for all of this is known and still kept secret by ...Yahoo
| 6:04 pm on Oct 16, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Yahoo is involved because Inktomi is Yahoo. Let' see here...
MSN renews w/Ink
Yahoo buys Ink
MSNbot starts crawling the web and presumably will introduce their own SE.
MSN ends relationship w/LookSmart
So MSN has cut ties with one provider of their search results, another provider is bought by their competition, and they are clearly developing their own SE. So really, MSN has nothing to with this. How would they benefit from a "recent modification to Inktomi's algorithm"?
But let's see, is there a way for Yahoo to benefit from this? What do you think? Are they just using MSN now as a way to test their newly purchased technology? Can they do this? Would they do this?
I'm just sort of rambling here, because I'd like to get to the bottom of this.
| 9:26 pm on Oct 16, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Thank you everyone who shared their experience with MSN and Inktomi listings dropping!
Two weeks ago after using PT for PFI to Inktomi, I did a test page for a new site and it ranked at #1 and #2 for target keywords. I then brought it down to develop and complete and brought it back on with the completed site, and this week I am lucky to have it on the first page, but often into the 30's and 40's for results (all in two week time). I was also curious why my Pure Search results showed my site in the number one position for targeted keywords at the same time.
Having read this thread, I only have to assume that things are in a flux, and I need to just wait and see what will come about.
Ah...it's never boring around here.
Really enjoyed reading the article by makemetop:
Thanks all! Lindavh
| 5:36 pm on Oct 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>It seems like a lot of you are convinced that a foul up
> with geo targetting is the problem. But why are sites
>added after June the only ones being effected, then?
I have had sites in PFI for about a year and a half and they have all been affected. They are all on .com domains but are hosted in Canada. They are doing poorly on MSN.ca, but they do at least show up.
I have sites on .com domains hosted in the US, with no possible affiliation to anything Canadian, and they have all lost their listings too. These sites were submitted after May.
ALL listings that were spidered without PFI are gone, old and new, Canadian and American.
My conclusion is that there are several things going on at the same time and we are all right.
P-tech has been extremely vague with their answers, saying that yes, there was an algo change on Oct 1, give it about a week and the bugs should be ironed out... and then today, i spoke with someone again and they said to give it a week and things should stabilize...
We will see what happens...
| 6:02 pm on Oct 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Wow. This went from one guy asking about his algorithim, to a whole bunch of people asking stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with the first question.
They should just retitle this thread to "The Runaway Thread". I give it a week before it gets completely out of hand.
| 7:25 pm on Oct 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I got a reply from Lycos Insite team about my e-mail to them regarding this latest changes in Inktomi. Basically, they said that Inktomi changes algorithms from time to time and this recent change was very visible. The e-mail wasnít convincing and I think they donít know what is going on.
Well, I tried the PT pure search and found that it has also changed. One week ago my site was #11 for the keyword I wanted it and now it is #60 on pure search. It is now where to be found on MSN nor HotBot. Talk about a nose dive :)
Well, submitting a new site to Inktomi didnít work either. Site just doesnít show up quickly like before. The new site is buried down under.
Anyone has any updates on what is going on?
| 7:54 pm on Oct 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I figured I would stop lurking and come out to interact here. I am in the same boat with many of you. I did my PFI in July through Position Tech and had first page rankings on MSN with the optimized pages I included in my PFI. I disappeared around the first week of October. I have tried re-doing my SEO, changed the URL, and I have had no luck.
My biggest fear is that I am in violation of some Inktomi policy and they didn't notify me. Overall though I think something is broken and we just have to wait it out. I check this thread roughly three times a hour for new info.
I am really disappointed someone from Ink doesn't publicly set the record straight on this. Did I just throw my money out the window forever or is there an ETA for a fix?
Very frustrating times!
| 8:04 pm on Oct 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
|did Ink. change their algorithm |
Yes they did!
| 8:13 pm on Oct 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Welcome to WebmasterWorld, 1Smiley. I'm sure you did nothing wrong, I wouldn't worry about that. I don't know what to think at his point. Many people here think we're over reacting and I hope they're right. But I have yet to see any suggestions on how to fix this problem.
One more thing, 1Smiley. When you reply to a thread, you have an option to get e-mail notifications when anyone else replies to it. That way you won't have to check all the time:)
| 3:52 am on Oct 22, 2003 (gmt 0)|
|I figured I would stop lurking and come out to interact here. I am in the same boat with many of you. I did my PFI in July through Position Tech and had first page rankings on MSN with the optimized pages I included in my PFI. I disappeared around the first week of October. I have tried re-doing my SEO, changed the URL, and I have had no luck. |
Now I'm guessing you either stuffed the keywords section with keywords that were not visible on the landing page, or whoever generated your XML document did something illegit/shady.
| 3:55 am on Oct 22, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Oh... I missed this :
|I am really disappointed someone from Ink doesn't publicly set the record straight on this. |
When dealing with Ptech (Position Tech or PositionTech), you'll NEVER get any information straight from Inktomi.
| 4:41 am on Oct 22, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Actually, I just double checked my keywords and they do match with the content on the page. I don't have any invisible text or anything else blatantly stupid that would cause penalty. I follow the rules very strictly when designing my pages for SEO.
| 6:18 am on Oct 22, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I think Position Tech, Lycos Insite and other PFI companies will get their act together and find out what is going from Inktomi when people threaten them to leave and not renew their PFI accounts. I am one that will not renew with Inktomi if this saga continuous which in turn means $$$ lost for Lycos Insite.
I cannot do anything for now but to wait and see what happens.
| 9:09 am on Oct 22, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Check your sites now. A big shift overnight. Several of my sites are now restored to their former glory (.coms).
| 9:27 am on Oct 22, 2003 (gmt 0)|
WOHHHHHHooooooo - back in business!
| 9:34 am on Oct 22, 2003 (gmt 0)|
My main site is still not showing at its previouse position.
| 12:22 pm on Oct 22, 2003 (gmt 0)|
back in business....thank heaven! I've been having trouble sleeping thinking about angry clients for days. Now it's over! :)
Hope you all here have your rankings restored too.
| 12:37 pm on Oct 22, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Whew! Let's hope we don't have to go through THAT again.
| 1:00 pm on Oct 22, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Well, I have to say that its been a very interesting 3 weeks. This all just goes to show the necessity of diversifing our traffic sources. Imagine had this happened in Google instead of Inktomi!
The PFI firms seemed to be utterly useless in getting info about the problem. I expected more as they should have had a direct line of communicaton with the "techies in control" over at Ink.
All in all, a good learning experience.
| 1:31 pm on Oct 22, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I am back where I was too. I am so glad this is over and I can put my energy into other things again. This really stressed me out!
| 1:46 pm on Oct 22, 2003 (gmt 0)|
whoopee! Back to the way it was!
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