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Free inclusion and optimisation for Ink
On the assumption that Yahoo! is now Ink powered
trillianjedi




msg:27873
 9:32 am on Aug 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

Or at least will be very soon, can we get a thread started about getting included in Ink, pros and cons of paying versus not paying and optimisation?

I'm presuming that Yahoo will continue to run its own directory and that the results will somehow get merged? Or will they keep directory and Ink results seperate? Any thoughts anyone?

I've read a lot about whether or not to pay, but my personal opinion is to never, ever pay for inclusion in any engine. It will take time to get listed, but at the end of the day if you have a good and popular site, not being in a search engine shows up the engine, not your site...

I have also heard, specifically in relation to Ink that if you pay, you only get your paid for URL's indexed.

Do we have an Ink expert here that can confirm/deny?

Also, what are the important factors, on page and off page, for the Inktomi SERPS?

We seem to have our site in there (never paid to have it in) but it's not doing so well (about the #30 mark - but #1 in google).

Are there penalties for not having paid for inclusion, or are on-page factors different in relevance to google?

For a few keywords I see a lot of pages in the top 5 that use hidden text (blue text against blue gif at the bottom). Does this work in Ink - or is their anti-spam filter pretty efficient in the end?

And whilst we're on the subject of anti-spam etc, if you get banned in Ink, what's the damage and how do you recover?

Sorry for a long posting of questions, I'd much prefer to be able to post a long thread stating "hey, these are the answers to the main Ink points" but I don't know those answers as on here we all tend to concentrate on google a little too much.....

I just found the 3 Page Optimisation Technique [searchengineblog.com] which has been discussed before.

Can anyone make any comments on that based on their experience?

TJ

 

textex




msg:27874
 12:35 pm on Aug 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

I paid for three sites. All legit and all got the boot. One by one.

Thread is here: [webmasterworld.com...]

trillianjedi




msg:27875
 12:49 pm on Aug 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

To summarise that thread, would it be fair to say, to rank well in Ink (or simply not get banned):-

1. Multiple keyword hyphen domains are out.

2. Title tags must be used reasonably and be accurate and correct.

3. Fresh content is important.

All the above seems fair enough, although the last one is a little odd. Some of the most useful sites on the internet have very stale content. Some things don't change (how about a page explaining the laws of physics!).

It also seems to me that Ink are very fussy over inclusions. Which is maybe no bad thing?

What's the deal with getting in for free?

TJ

onedumbear




msg:27876
 4:04 am on Aug 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Im no crafty webmaster, I'm just a little ant walking amidst giants, but I was not impressed with the page optimization technique, it all seemed on target, but no great revelations.

As for getting in ink free. I am also against paying for inclusion and have NEVER done so. I have a business web site that was launched in May. It has about 8 good inbound links. I submitted it through the free submit link in may. Ink found the site june 15. It spidered all of the pages and they appeared in the MSN results with great page ranks near the end of july. All the pages on the site were indexed and included. They have "revisit tags" ranging from 2 days to 2 weeks and I have'nt followed that closely but I believe slurp is obeying the revisit tag. The pages are often updated.
I have a second business site recently launced that I have decided only to submitt to directories and to let the SE's find me through inbound links.

onedumbear




msg:27877
 4:24 am on Aug 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Don't want to spread any mis-information in regards to my previous post...
I checked my files and it does not seem that slurp obeys my revisit tags. Slurp is at the site almost every day though and the pages are often updated, but there seems no ryme or reason to the visits.

kevinpate




msg:27878
 4:44 am on Aug 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

> Do we have an Ink expert here that can confirm/deny?

I'm no expert by any means, but this thread does cause me to wonder ... is anyone today an ink expert? I'm not certain there's really anything to suggest that a few months down the line that yahinky2003-04 will = ink2002.

Mohamed_E




msg:27879
 8:40 am on Aug 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

I'm not certain there's really anything to suggest that a few months down the line that yahinky2003-04 will = ink2002.

Definitely agree. I believe that the reason that Yahoo is not yet using Ink is that it is being heavily modified.

makemetop




msg:27880
 10:30 am on Aug 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

>Can anyone make any comments on that based on their experience?

Yes, it works. But I would say that wouldn't I!

moehits




msg:27881
 4:12 pm on Aug 31, 2003 (gmt 0)

I've had pretty good luck getting listed in Inktomi for free by getting links from sites that are already listed in there.

awall19




msg:27882
 6:58 pm on Sep 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

I checked my files and it does not seem that slurp obeys my revisit tags.

The revisit on tag is ignored by any relevant search engine.

Inktomi still has a free site submit option through its microsoft connection. I have had multiple sites list in the inktomi database for free that had no links pointing at them.

MSN Inktomi site submit [free.submit-it.com]

MrSpeed




msg:27883
 1:45 pm on Sep 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

To pay or not to pay.....
In some cases it makes a ton of sense to pay. In the right niche you can easily recoup the cost and make a nice little profit in the same time that you hope to get listed for free. Personally I have not payed to get into Ink but I have payed for a looksmart listing to appear above the Ink listing at MSN.

It will be interesting to see how Yahoo incorporates the INK listings. Will they put more emphasis on directory listings again? What will the PPC landscape look like? Will Yahoo start to use an Adwords type program on their Geocities properties?

Patrick Taylor




msg:27884
 10:05 am on Sep 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

Multiple keyword hyphen domains are out.

How multiple? Do you think (eg) ww*.my-flower-shop.com would be "out"? What does this mean? Does it mean there's a filter or the Inktomi algorithm will penalize such a site, and to what degree? Would it also apply to hyphenated-subfolder-names and hyphenated-filename.htm and image names etc? I'm curious because I have a two-hyphen-domain and quite a few hyphens elsewhere and it seems to be doing fine with Inktomi so far. Is anyone able to expand on this?

Regards,

Patrick

Lady_Lea




msg:27885
 7:44 am on Sep 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

You dont have to pay to be included at the moment

[submitit.bcentral.com...]

MSN still do it for free.

I took advantage of that this weekend, and blasted over 40 sites to them quick - incase they change their mind.

Lea

KevinC




msg:27886
 6:15 pm on Sep 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

I actually paid for 5 urls in january and since I have had about 50 other pages included for free. SO at least for the myth about if you pay then they won't include anything else is false.

Although I wouldn't pay again now know that they will index you fairly easy for free.

textex




msg:27887
 4:14 pm on Sep 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

Had a hyphenated free submission site dropped sometime last night.

Patrick Taylor




msg:27888
 12:29 am on Sep 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

MSN has hyphenated domains at the top of their SERPS on all kinds of keywords. Is there any reason why you believe hyphens were the cause of your site being dropped? Can anyone give technical evidence (rather than anecdotal evidence) that hyphenated domains per se are a no-no?

7Sins




msg:27889
 2:47 am on Sep 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

I think the Inktomi/Yahoo editors have gone over the top now, they don't even appear to be reviewing what they are dumping.

I had a few paid inclusion (a bit spammy) pages removed or dropped to the bottom of the serps which I took on the chin even though the free inclusion sites I was competing against were much worse than those I had penalised and are still there.

Then a few days ago they swooped again on fairly good content sites, including a very clean DMOZ site and penalised them.

Enough is enough, my only recourse seems to be to hit them in the pocket. I just finished cancelling ALL of my Yahoo directory sites and none of my 100's of Inktomi paid inclusion pages will be renewed.

One trick Inky seems to be using, is waiting for you to renew pages which have been acceptable for the last 12months then decide they are no longer acceptable and hit with "editorial actions".

I have never charged back for anything, but I really don't believe I am getting what I paid for anymore with Inktomi, so ....

Still Waters




msg:27890
 9:48 pm on Sep 14, 2003 (gmt 0)


You dont have to pay to be included at the moment [submitit.bcentral.com...]

MSN still do it for free.

I took advantage of that this weekend, and blasted over 40 sites to them quick - incase they change their mind.

Lea


Lea,

Earlier today, I found this URL: [free.submit-it.com...] which looks really great. But then, I found an article called "Inktomi's Free Add URL Penalty," which looks really bad! (http://searchenginewatch.com/sereport/article.php/2163401)

Okay, the article is 2 years old. But, numerous threads, here in WW, seem to support that Inktomi is "behaving badly" TODAY. I'm not sure if I trust them enough, to submit my sites -- free or otherwise.

Anyone have an opinion on this penalty?

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