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Inktomi Optimization Frustration
Four Pages, Easy Terms, No Results
RoosterTail




msg:29379
 4:04 pm on Mar 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hey everyone. I have been studying SEO a while here on the forums, and I have been trying to get four of my pages into the MSN search results. The terms I am targetting are anywhere between 1 and 4 keywords in length, but since the site is scientifically oriented, the terms are not that competetive at all.

Back in late February, I signed up for a PositionTech account, and since then, I've been trult frusturated. I have four pages paid for and in the index, and according to PT, they've been refreshed on the 13th of March.

All in all, I'm just stumped. All of the pages validate, feature unique and dense titles, and META information.

I'm getting outranked in MSN as well as Inktomi's Pure Search left and right, and often only find my pages buried 100+ results down.

Whats the catch? My pages feature unique content, so I'm really lost here.

Any help would be great!

 

tigger




msg:29439
 4:12 pm on May 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

Thanks Dave, I've been so buried in Google this year I've not been taking much notice what’s been happening with Ink

martinibuster




msg:29440
 5:05 pm on May 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

Regarding an unfair advantage, someone mentioned:
Yes, I believe they refer to that as Trusted Feed.

And tennismaster asked:
...INK has listed our looksmart listing
in the index...We know this is looksmart listing because it has the looksmart title and the description they gave us.

If we discontinue our looksmart account, will the listing
disappear from INK index?

Ink takes a monthly feed from Looksmart, and any Ink listings will be superceded by Looksmart data, even your Ink PFI. The support person I spoke with called it part of their Trusted Feed.

If you drop your looksmart account, your Ink listing will disappear because it's part of that monthly dump into Ink.

DavidT




msg:29441
 5:36 pm on May 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

Just checked on Hotbot and noticed that some pages from my strongest competitors have not been updated since late 1999 so this can only confirm that there is preference given to established sites. One of the strongest sites here has no keywords in the title just company name.

My site is only 5 months old and has had all 600 pages spidered by Ink without any being pfi. But only about 15 of them are in the index and even I'm surprised at how well they do.

Jon_King




msg:29442
 5:48 pm on May 10, 2003 (gmt 0)

I complied an Inktomi Quick Rank from a complete search of all Ink threads over in the Yahoo forum. It is no where to be found, I think I've searched everywhere, would it have been removed?

As I remember it was heavily weighted toward the url string. Including the domain name, the sub directory name and finally the file name.

Fiver_321




msg:29443
 1:31 pm on May 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Ok - thanks for that everyone.

So - I surmise that Club stINK 2003 is still open.

:)

Cheers
Fiver

bobmcd




msg:29444
 3:57 pm on May 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Inktomi Secrets?

No one has mentioned that Inktomi is "case sensitive".

KeywordOne in the Title will not be picked up if a searcher is searching for keywordone.

In looking at what it takes to get into the TOP 10, have seen quite a lot of META DESCRIPTION SPAM.

Example: "Welcome to Keywordone, where keywordone brings great KEYWORDONE surprises for people looking for keywordone things on the KEYWORDONE web."

Anyway you slice it, it's overkill.

Another Inktomi secret is the number of pages which are actually REDIRECTS listed in top positions. Click STOP and View Source code before page finishes loading. These are META-HTTP=refresh pages which are listed in top positions in Inktomi.

We've ALL been led to believe that meta-http=refresh is an absolute "no-no". Haven't we seen such warnings many times before?

AND last, but not least, probably MOST IMPORTANT INKTOMI SECRET of ALL is: search engine cloaking.

The longer you study what the competition is doing, the deeper the hole you'll dig for yourself - Search Engine cloaking is BIG business and is probably hiding the real content (which the Spiders see) on 8 of every TOP 10 listings in the results (not only on Inktomi - but ALL the majors).

Here's a good one: go to Google and do a search for the word: "shopping" (without the quotes).

Last I looked, amazon.com came up #1 for "shopping" - but the word shopping does not appear anywhere on the page, nor in the domain name or description. How it can have a #1 listing for a word which appears nowhere on its page is an absolute mystery - UNLESS - they're CLOAKING.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Hope this helps.

BobMcd

tigger




msg:29445
 7:41 am on May 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Cheers for the info bob, still struggling on, I'm so glad I only paid for one page :)

nfinland




msg:29446
 4:29 am on May 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

I have posted this before. My site also has a good Google ranking (within top 10) with a couple of very competed keywords. They rank from 20-80 on Inktomi. I use positiontech for paid inclusion.

I donīt think that all the 80 sites before my site could be cloaking or use some others "tricks" to get higher rankings.

I have began to studie this more and here are some comments:

I rank ok on Inktomi on different combinations on the high ranking keywords (buy, cheap, free etc. + keyword). Donīt know exactly what conclusions I should make out of this...

Anyway, I thought I should start with cleaning up my HTML and see if this has any effect on the ranking. This is useful anyway. Meta, keyword density and optimization in general should be ok and I have analysed the competeting sites also. Some things can be done here, but nothing as I see that could boost ranking from 80 to top 10.

I will report if I come up with something useful!

P.S.

In pure search my URL has the "west-inktomi.com" redirect if that should say or mean anything.

Fiver_321




msg:29447
 5:18 am on May 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

nfinland,

The west-inktomi redirect shows you that the url has been placed into the index by PFI as opposed to being crawled "naturally" as such.

Tigger pointed this out earlier in this thread for us.

I can speculate that this redirect is being done purely so that the inclusion partners (pos tech, ineedhits etc) can provide reports on clicks to your site as a result of PFI. Thus allowing you to monitor the performance of PFI, and also the search strings keyed for which you ranked.

One step further, this could be used (speculation) for ranking if click counts were a part of the algo. A site at number 3 say, getting more clickthroughs than a site at number 1 on the same serp could float up as a result of click popularity. After a careful study of average click %'s at various positions - a deviation over and above the average for a given position would show a site is more popular in the readers eyes than the one(s) higher.

This could very easily be implemented into an algo, however - to the best of my knowledge, the main index is not click counted, so *only* PFI sites could rise/drop against each other.

For example, if an MSN serp showed the following for "widget" :-

1 - NON-PFI
2 - NON-PFI
3 - PFI
4 - NON-PFI
5 - PFI
6 - etc

and the site at position 5 was getting more clicks than the site at 3, then clearly site at pos 5 is more enticing to the users than 3. Therefore it would make sense to swap them round - or at least give 5 a boost of some sort which *could* cause them to swap (as many other factors are involved beyond "title and description enticement")

However because clicks for pos 4 are unknown, there is no evidence to say that 5 is more enticing than 4 - so the swap between 3 and 5 could be the wrong thing to do.

My mind is wandering - sorry

Fiver


tigger




msg:29448
 5:27 am on May 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

>My mind is wandering - sorry

LOL it happens in this game :)

I'd be happy with any number so far I can't get the thing ranking now on rebuild number 8 I think :)

It's a good job this is all still a bit of fun, now if Ink results were on Y that would be a completely different story

biggles




msg:29449
 7:52 am on May 30, 2003 (gmt 0)


The longer you study what the competition is doing, the deeper the hole you'll dig for yourself - Search Engine cloaking is BIG business and is probably hiding the real content (which the Spiders see) on 8 of every TOP 10 listings in the results (not only on Inktomi - but ALL the majors).

Here's a good one: go to Google and do a search for the word: "shopping" (without the quotes).

Last I looked, amazon.com came up #1 for "shopping" - but the word shopping does not appear anywhere on the page, nor in the domain name or description. How it can have a #1 listing for a word which appears nowhere on its page is an absolute mystery - UNLESS - they're CLOAKING.

bobmcd - when did you last look? A check on Google as you mentioned shows that almost without exception all the top results feature the word shopping in the title &/or description. Yahoo! Sgopping is # 1 & Amazon isn't in the top 30 results.

bobmcd




msg:29450
 11:42 am on May 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

Biggles,

Last searched Google for "shopping" without the quotes, back in early April - glad to see more recent, relevant results.

BobMcd

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