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  posting off  
Inktomi and spamming.
Trying to learn more.
robertito62




msg:20385
 2:38 pm on Feb 24, 2003 (gmt 0)

I had a good experience so far indexing my pages in Google so I decided to try other search engines. A few weeks ago I got some URL's in INK through their PFI system. I followed the regular SEO procedures and waited for results...

On checking stats provided by one of their resellers I noticed my pages were not ranking well, even though some got #1 spot in G, so I checked the listings that were ranking well in Hotbot -results provided by INK-.

To my surprise, my pages were buried after more than 50 results which were the epitome of spam. The number 1 place for my keyword had been given to a single page which only contained that keyword, listed about 100 times in different fonts as text and as links. No content whatsoever. It gets worse. The second and 3rd placement went to pages that had nothing to do with the search. Completely unrelated content. It occured to me that keywords might be stuffed in the HTML so I did a 'find' lookup for them and got zippo.

A quick look at the other SERPS listed revealed hidden text, hidden links, keyword stuffing by the thousands...But, what surprised me the most was that spammers wouldn't even bother to hide their offenses. It was just blatant.

Is this my 'welcome to the world of Inktomi' thing?

Looking for advise on how to rank well in Inktomi playing fair.

 

Lawnboyronmiller




msg:20386
 4:51 pm on Feb 24, 2003 (gmt 0)

Im also Looking for Tips & Suggestions for Inktomi.

I cant even get a #1 listing for when they type the exact www website address/URL into the search engine like MSN which uses Inktomi.

That seems ridiculous if you ask me.

Is Inktomi that bad or whats the deal?

Anyone have any tips and suggestions for Inktomi?

skipfactor




msg:20387
 11:03 pm on Feb 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

I've got the same issue. I just posted a thread here [webmasterworld.com...] before I saw this. You would think when you PAY to get submitted, a human or a smart bot would at least weed out half of this crap! What kind of searching is that? Hopefully not the look of the future; surely Yahoo won't put up with it.

DrCool




msg:20388
 11:09 pm on Feb 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

"Is this my 'welcome to the world of Inktomi' thing?"

In many ways, yes. I have some 3 year old simple doorway pages with redirects on them that are the epitome of spam and they are doing great in Ink. In many markets these pages can still work well.

There are also some other very clean sites I have that list well. You don't need to use a bunch of shady tricks to get listed in Inktomi but the don't seem to catch too many of the pages that do.

toolman




msg:20389
 11:13 pm on Feb 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

Is it really all that "spam" on the page or is it off page factors making those pages rank well?

duhboy




msg:20390
 11:17 pm on Feb 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hi all
I just checked some records for a client listed at Ink and our top keyword showed seventh on the Feb 14 and 127 yesterday. I don't care for this.
Thanks for the heads up.
Best duhboy.

Marcia




msg:20391
 11:19 pm on Feb 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

robertito, how competitive are the terms you're going for? Couple million, couple of hundred thousand, or under 100K?

skipfactor




msg:20392
 11:25 pm on Feb 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

Anyone had success with mailing reportspam@inktomi.com?

[webmasterworld.com...]

DrCool




msg:20393
 11:35 pm on Feb 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

Is it really all that "spam" on the page or is it off page factors making those pages rank well?

For my pages at least it would almost have to be "spam" on the page. The sites in question have no incoming links of any kind. I can't think of any off-page factors that would be affecting these page.

Just to clarify, when I say "spam" I am refering to the general search engine definition of spam (if there even is one). I personally see these pages as clever marketing techniques :)

robertito62




msg:20394
 2:43 am on Feb 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

Marcia, that particular keyword shows < 10k results in INK.

SO not competitive at all.

robertito62




msg:20395
 3:04 am on Feb 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

skipfactor,
I personally do not believe too much in reporting.

Engineers can spot spam faster than myself and by now they must be familiar with all forms of it. Spam reports seems to be useful just for 'venting ones anger' or sort of...

Having been Google my first experience with search engines I was just appalled at the differences with INK algo.

If INK can't do a better job of cutting through the spam, then I got my answer. I will just follow DrCool's advise on 'clever marketing techniques'.

Jack_Straw




msg:20396
 3:33 am on Feb 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

The biggest spammer on Inktomi is...

Inktomi.

Do not confuse Inktomi with a "fair" or informational search engine. They are an advertising medium. They work on the edge of the regulations outlawing presentation of advertising as information. Some of their "partners" are well documents scoundrels and crooks. Their PFC pages are advertisements pure and simple.

Inktomi is in the business of making money. Primarily from their pay for click advertisers (they call it "trusted feed"). Secondarily from their "Pay for Inclusion" pages. Their goal is clear from their behavior.

If you pay them for clicks, they allow you to submit titles and descriptions for pages. They rank those pages entirely based on those titles and descriptions. It is pretty straightforward to compose good, high ranking "spam". If you are in the PFC program, you are essentially in partnership with them. Every click you get generates revenue for them and they are your friend.

If you do not pay them they will allow you to have a top ranking page in categories that do not compete with their trusted feed clients. If you are in a competitive market and have not paid them, they will not allow you to rank well because, if you do, your pages will last only about a week before they are pulled or "penalized". I suspect that Inktomi (or, possibly their partners) review high revenue search terms and cull non-paying sites that rank too good.

Our experience is that pages managed through their PFI program have a better chance of not being pulled. As long as your PFI doesn't cut into their PFC revenue too much, they will allow you to have some traffic.

BTW, there are no "off page factors" in regard to inktomi. They rank entirely by "on page factors". If you are in their "trusted feed" program, they rank entirely by the "cloaked" content you feed them (title and description). If you are not in their PFI program, they read your page and rank it based on the content of that page, primarily the title and description.

mayor




msg:20397
 4:51 am on Feb 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

Jack_Straw, I think you may have hit the nail on the head! My experiences with getting both paid-inclusion and unpaid pages booted from Inktomi can best be explained with your theories.

I keep looking for technical explanations but find none that can explain my experiences. But culling of successful pages in competitive areas would explain my experience, with unpaid pages getting the ax first and paid-inclusion (not the PPC trusted feed) pages getting it next.

skipfactor




msg:20398
 4:40 pm on Feb 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

HEY, I reported my spammer to reportspam@inktomi.com, and they removed him in less than 24 hours! As I noted previously, he was using serious spam doorway pages w/ redirects to another universe, so there was no doubt here. WAY TO GO INKTOMI! YES!

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