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  posting off  
Thinking the unthinkable
Will MSN dump INK?

 6:33 pm on Jun 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

Ink took a torpedo on the port side when Yahoo dumped them for Google a couple years ago. They just took one on the starboard side with the AOL announcement that Google will take their place. Now, is there a Bill Gates cruise missile zipping their way?

Is it time for sites to quit the Ink pay-for-inclusion program? Because Inktomi listings without MSN won't be worth a plug nickle.

Anyone have any information on Ink's future with MSN?



 6:37 pm on Jun 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

I don't have the inside info, but I don't see it as "unthinkable". Instead, I see it as totally feasible, and almost probable.

If MSN were to drop Inktomi, an account with them would virtually worthless now that AOL is on the way out.

Will MSN drop INK?
I don't know, but I wouldn't doubt it.

Who will MSN pick up?
If they did drop INK, I think it is hard to speculate who they would go with. Although Google is everyone's favorite search engine, I can't see MSN using them for their search results. Who is the next big dog in the running? Fast, AV, Wisenut, Teoma, etc?

The Contractor

 6:53 pm on Jun 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

If I was betting (and I'm not), I would say Teoma. I think Teoma needs to strike a deal to get in the spotlight somewhere and MSN is one of the few choices left.


 6:59 pm on Jun 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

I don't know. I have seen a lot of wisenut activity lately. I think something is going on over there. I am not sure if it is msn but something is up. LS might want to use them instead of ink.

The Contractor

 7:06 pm on Jun 10, 2002 (gmt 0)


I have seen a lot of activity on one site that I have (for three months), and a site of my sons (for three months), plus my new site. None of the three sites are in the SERPS even with their domains. Trouble is Wisenut SERPS seem so out dated and irrelevent compared to any of the other SE's. I don't think Wisenut is a contender for MSN because of this. It would be FAST or Teoma and I lean towards Teoma ;)


 7:10 pm on Jun 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

We're thinking alike today The_Contractor.

It would be FAST or Teoma and I lean towards Teoma

Taking bets ;)


 7:28 pm on Jun 10, 2002 (gmt 0)


I never bet - never even play the lottery ;)

Like I said - I think Teoma is searching for someone to put them in the spotlight, MSN is about the spotlight left that has not been Googled.

Hey this post switched to my old member name - oh Brett .......


 7:43 pm on Jun 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

Teoma = no, why?
TEOMA + international searches (searches on different languages) = Bad, real bad.

Then we only have FAST and Google left, i don't count WiseNut since they are owned by Looksmart, and it doesn't seem that the MSN & Looksmart relation is the best.

Google, nope i think they want there adwords to be presented and i think MSN want to stick with Overture.

FAST excellent language support, better serp's than anyone else when it comes to language specific searches which is a big plus for msn since msn is represented in almost every "internet country" in the world, and have a large audience.
They could also make some money if they became the reseller of FAST's PFI.


 8:05 pm on Jun 10, 2002 (gmt 0)



I target Google and Inktomi for most of my sites.
My Google sites also tend to do well in FAST.
I want an easier life.


 9:27 pm on Jun 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

INKT? Once $235.00 per share - now $1.45 and hovering!

I still want them to make it. If it wasn't for Inktomi, I wouldn't have built my business the way I have. That's why I still give them a few hundred bucks a week (shoot - I give AV a few $ too). I don't think that MSN will give them up, they have got to be better than L$!

We need other SEs. I back FAST, have a weak-spot for INK, like Teoma and fear Google.

I don't think MSN will go for Wisenut, that is just too silly! But stranger things have happened..


 9:36 pm on Jun 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

I think Google's out of the question... M$ has already stated publicly that they thought Yahoo made a big mistake giving a competitor such big exposure...

My money would be on them sticking with Ink.. No other SE is pulling the money from PFI that Ink is... And from the current MSN setup it certainly looks like they prefer to show results that pay them rather than worrying about quality...


 9:39 pm on Jun 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

Fast would be great news. With aol going to google, I'd think they must be getting some pressure to serve up quality better than inktomi.

The Contractor

 9:54 pm on Jun 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

I hope I don't get OT here but:

I think with Fast already powering ALLTHEWEB and Lycos that MSN would shy away from them since I believe that Fast may trying to build ATW into it's own portal in the future.

Who is going to pick up Teoma?
Without Teoma getting a deal with MSN or similiar it will take forever to progress. Sure they have ASK but I think that is more popular in the UK than the USA.

My 2-cents


 10:08 pm on Jun 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

ATW - FAST has a very clear message on this: WE WILL NOT COMPETE WITH OUR PARTNERS.

Forget ATW as standalone search destination.

No, FAST would be the obvious choice for some reasons: They have the potential , as in index size, spidering abilities, ranking algo.
They have, as Lazer pointed out a rich multilanguage index, other than Teoma or Wisenut. MSN operates worldwide.

But then - the financials. OK there's PartnerSite PFI. MSN could put PPC on top.
But surely Ink has much more to offer in this regard.

The Contractor

 10:26 pm on Jun 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

Ok, you guys are swaying me to FAST :)

Now I have posted my latest concern about Fast/MSN here:

But I guess this would apply to INK and Teoma.

[edited by: The_Contractor at 11:19 pm (utc) on June 10, 2002]


 10:55 pm on Jun 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

All of my money goes on MSN keeping Inktomi. MSN has INK by the short hairs and they BOTH know it.
At this point, after losing AOL, Ink would give in to ANYTHING MSN wanted from them. MSN would never be in the same position and have that kind of power with anyone else. INK has no choice but to be MSN's obsequious lackey.

MSN also controls INK's stock price. By keeping everyone in the dark and guessing about their future relationship with INK, such as expressed in this thread, they keep the INK stock price low.
When it drops to a nickle a share they will buy it up and THEN announce a long-term INK deal.

If you were MSN would you walk away from such a free lunch? Or would you turn it into a feast?


 12:03 am on Jun 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

>>MSN also controls INK's stock price. <<

I wasn't of this impression at all. I was of the impression that the web search business was only a very small piece of Inktomi's business. When Yahoo gave them the boot a couple years ago, I don't think their stock price flinched.


 12:14 am on Jun 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

I'd bet that L$ gets absorped by M$N and their ppc program continues as the directory results while Wisenut becomes the web page results.

Wisenut was built on Windows from the start...it always struck me as odd why someone would do that. Imagine if Google had to pay for a "license" for each of those 10,000 servers.


 12:35 am on Jun 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

MSN has INK by the short hairs and they BOTH know it.

Absolutely, this isn't 1999. Inktomi's other areas of business are being severely hit by the dot-com depression.

Mayor, look at what happened to their stock price when AOL gave them the boot.

Nell I don't see MSN buying inktomi outright, but rather buying up some infrastructure if it goes that way. BTW, the inktomi palace that they built during the dot-com hay-day is sitting empty. The commercial real estate market here is very saturated, and they are still building on old contracts. I see this as a real problem for inktomi -- that's why I don't see anybody buying them.


 8:48 am on Jun 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

>the web search business was only a very small piece of Inktomi's business

It used to be smaller but with the collapse of the other businesses it is about all they have now.

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