homepage Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 54.205.99.71
register, free tools, login, search, pro membership, help, library, announcements, recent posts, open posts,
Become a Pro Member

Home / Forums Index / Local / Foo
Forum Library, Charter, Moderators: incrediBILL & lawman

Foo Forum

This 41 message thread spans 2 pages: 41 ( [1] 2 > >     
And I thought the US made stupid laws
Ok I guess we are all in the same boat
bwnbwn




msg:4389158
 9:52 pm on Nov 20, 2011 (gmt 0)

Sometimes I wonder about the US and some the dumbest laws I have ever seen, well until the UK came up with a doosey of a law.
[foxnews.com...]

I guess we all live on the same planet so we all have people in places that just need to be somewere else. Not make these kind of laws that have no purpose but wate time and money.

 

inbound




msg:4389162
 10:04 pm on Nov 20, 2011 (gmt 0)

That's an EU law that is forced upon the UK, big difference.

Leosghost




msg:4389163
 10:04 pm on Nov 20, 2011 (gmt 0)

That is EU law ..and it is to stop bottled water companies , who were trying to say that their bottled water ( identical to tap water ..but up to 1000 times more expensive ) could be labeled as a "health improvement product" or "medicine" that did not need a prescription..Sort of "anti dehydration supplement" to your daily diet..

If you eat and drink normally during the day..you don't normally ( unless you have certain "specific" health problems, or are taking a lot of excersise or in a particularly hot area or environmentn even need to drink water separately..normal daily water intake is fine at 2 litres per day ..what you get in fruit and veg' and food is included in that figure ) ..bottled water companies are trying to push their "health product" as extra to that..and "special"

And if you are severely dehydrated , you need special salts and compounds in the water that you are given to drink ..drinking plain water alone, without them, can kill you if you are severely dehydrated..

btw ..the EU didn't make a special law ( this was included in other consumer protection law about fraudulent advertising and labeling ) ..they said that the bottled water companies could not be included in the companies whose products actually do have "additional health benefits"..but the bottled water companies are trying to get support in the UK, by playing the EU dumb law card in the hope that the UK will give them a pass and let them say on their bottles that their water is better ( by insinuation ) for you than tap water in the UK..

It is not ..

jecasc




msg:4389202
 11:04 pm on Nov 20, 2011 (gmt 0)

Actually that is just another example of media spinning perfectly sane and sensible legislation.

When it comes to EU regulations some media simply seem to tick out.

The EU regulation that is put into law in the UK now, bans unproven health claims on food. The question was put forward if bottled water manufactures could put "prevents dehydration" on their labels and the EU Commission said no - and put forward good reasons - which are convinently left out in the article. One of them being that dehydration is usually a symptome of an underlying disease - which can not be cured with bottled water.

I have made it a habit for a long time not to trust any of this claims of "outragous" and "ridiculous" EU laws by media before further investigation, because usually it turns out to be rubbish. Especially if the primary source is a british newspaper.

Just like the alleged ban of cucumbers and bananas that are not properly curved - a ban that never existed but is still mentioned in the article of the telegraph, which is the source of the Fox article:

[telegraph.co.uk...]

In reality mishaped cucumbers and bananas were no longer allowed to be called "extra class" but only class I or class II. Regulations that make sense in a common market - if a british merchant orders cucumbers he needs to know what he will get when he orders "Extra Class" cucumbers in Poland or the Netherlands. He needs to know all are talking of the same size and quality if he wants to compare prices. A common market does not work if "Extra Class" cucumbers in the Netherlands are the size of a thumb and in Poland the size of an arm.

bwnbwn




msg:4389205
 11:18 pm on Nov 20, 2011 (gmt 0)

ahh I see now the report I posted was way off base whith the reason for the law.

jeeze sorry about the comment I made. I can see the news made it out like the lawmakers were wasting their time, probably the water bottle paid them for the write up.

Leosghost




msg:4389220
 11:48 pm on Nov 20, 2011 (gmt 0)

jeeze sorry about the comment I made

;))
Don't worry ..the EU ( like all legislative bodies ) also has been known to issue some very dumb "directives"..but as jecasc says ..nowhere near as many as the UK media makes out ..and many of those that they have passed which seem illogical have actually been put forward originally by the UK representatives ..including the one on banana standards ( the UK has also commitments to the commonwealth..and some of the ex British Empire ( now commonwealth ) countries are major banana producers )..But the UK press in their search for headlines to catch their readers never lets the truth get in the way or a good sensationalist headline..

In 72 I was living in the UK ..I was very actively against the joining of the EU ( at the time it was "the common market" ) ..I only had the UK press and TV and radio for information..they were against..so was I..

I was very wrong..outside the EU the UK could not have survived, they export far more to the EU than they do to their old colonies..

A large part of the UK media is like Fox news.."infotainment"..for the ill educated and uninformed.."mushrooms" ( who are kept in the dark and fed crap from time to time ) funnily enough it is owned* by the same guy as Fox news..

He doesnt own the telegraph..but does own many newpapers like the times and the redtops and the now defunct NOTW..and the largest TV company outside the BBC..

The telegraph just knows that the average dumb Brit will lap up any anti EU article..the truth doesn't matter ..and yes the water companies via their ad spend and their friendly "lobbying" of journalists, via wine , dinner, holidays etc..probably did pay for the "story" to be run..

lucy24




msg:4389229
 12:25 am on Nov 21, 2011 (gmt 0)

Bill Bryson says somewhere that the UK got around a law requiring them to clean up beaches by reclassifying the especially filthy ones as, I dunno, "waterfront regions" or "shingled areas" or, in short, anything but "beach". In the US, most state-funded universities do something similar by calling student fees anything in the world except "tuition"-- which they're prohibited from charging. If you think this is too stupid and obvious to last beyond the next seating of the legislature and/or higher court, I would like to move to your country ;)

incrediBILL




msg:4389233
 12:45 am on Nov 21, 2011 (gmt 0)

One of them being that dehydration is usually a symptome of an underlying disease - which can not be cured with bottled water.


You mean an underlying disease like not drinking enough water?

Many people simply don't drink enough water, period.

I don't see where telling them to drink more is a bad thing as long as the ad carries a disclaimer to consult with a doctor if you have chronic ongoing dehydration issues, the common sense approach.

However, I saw a somewhat related US commercial the other night that made me want to scream. It was about having dry mouth and of course water will wet it, but there was this ad saying you should use some dentist approved water to wet it better!

Dentist approved bottled water can cure dry mouth better?

What the heck is it made of, H30? ;)

Holy crap, stop the planet I want to step off.

Leosghost




msg:4389239
 1:02 am on Nov 21, 2011 (gmt 0)

You mean an underlying disease like not drinking enough water?

Nope ..but how about colonic ulcers or lacerated colon ..or irritable bowel syndrome or certain kins of diabetes, or lymphatic deseases..etc etc ..the list is long ..hundreds of things that can cause dehydration , and that are not simply "not drinking enough water"..

And that if the person merely buys bottled water with "prevents dehydration" on the lable, and leaves the underlying condition untreated..can actually kill them..

Most people eat and drink total crap, ( I know..for many years I made a very very good living inventing making the ads that hawked it ) ..and generally treat their bodies as if they had another 10 or so ( for spares ) socked away in a cupboard somewhere..They spend more time and concern on washing and waxing their cars* than on keeping the bio-machine they are doing their thinking from inside of healthy..

*present moderators excepted..I hope ;)

What the heck is it made of, H30?


Distilled tooth fairy tears ..says so ..right here on the bottle label..if I'm allowed ( after brib^^^^^lobbying ) to print that on the label..

incrediBILL




msg:4389244
 1:49 am on Nov 21, 2011 (gmt 0)

And that if the person merely buys bottled water with "prevents dehydration" on the lable, and leaves the underlying condition untreated..can actually kill them..


I understand all that which is why I suggested they be required to caution people to consult with a physician for dehydration, just like the label on cigarettes says it may kill your ass, still up to you to do it one way or the other and legislation will never change stupid habits otherwise the tobacco industry would be long since extinct!

Leosghost




msg:4389250
 2:11 am on Nov 21, 2011 (gmt 0)

Bill , if you made that requirement of the water people, they'd brib^^^^lobby to try and get it to apply to the juice people, the soda people, the beer people etc etc..or say if that requirement didn't apply to all drinks in a bottle..the that they were being singled out..

They be able to get a tame ( industry sympathetic golf buddy judge ) to back them ..meanwhile great costs and time suck, for the public purse and health officials to fight them..

So much simpler and more cost effective to say at the outset .."no ..you can't put "prevents dehydration" on your bottled water" ..

It isn't because people are dumb or ill informed..that we should encourage the scammers..their victims usually include some peoples old mom or dad or kids..

lucy24




msg:4389256
 2:45 am on Nov 21, 2011 (gmt 0)

just like the label on cigarettes says it may kill your ass, still up to you to do it one way or the other and legislation will never change stupid habits otherwise the tobacco industry would be long since extinct!

The cigarette package does not proclaim that the contents confer medical benefits.

My child has diarrhea. I can't afford the expensive rehydration stuff and have never heard of making my own, but here's this other bottled liquid that says it prevents dehydration. Bingo! That will tide us over until we can get to the clinic.

You know who dies of water poisoning? Adult athletes who ought to know better.

bwnbwn




msg:4389265
 3:40 am on Nov 21, 2011 (gmt 0)

I know this is about water but here is a good comparision.

Millions of people suffer from heartburn worst acid reflux. Pepto-Bismol everybody has heard of it I know. The commercial shows the crap coating the stomach. Well that is kinda what the stuff does and doesn't treat the problem. A much better product that really treats the problem at 1/10 the cost Alo Vera juice. This will actually treat the issue and in most cases reduce acid reflux and inflamed ulcers.

Had a guy in the office he ate or drank a botttle of Pepto-Bismol a day. About a year ago I got him to start using Alo Vera juice. He hasn't bought a bottle since and has as he told me been 1000% better.

Had another office worker same problem he started drinking it about 3 months ago and is doing much better. BTW I don't sell it I tell them what brand to buy.

I agree with restricting claims that could be true but can actually cause more harm than good with a person that really doesn't have a clue.

We all know water hydrates well du but some people will actually think drinking a bottle of water and man I am hydrated now. Far from the truth so yes If they put on the bottle say drinking 5-10 of these a day overpriced bottled tap water will hydrate you then yes I wouldn't see anything wrong with adding that to the bottle.

BTW testing has determined most bottle water has been found to be more polluted than tap water.

incrediBILL




msg:4389266
 3:50 am on Nov 21, 2011 (gmt 0)

Had a guy in the office he ate or drank a botttle of Pepto-Bismol a day.


I used to work with a guy that ate Tums like candy.

He glued all the bottles together and had this huge Tums pyramid against the wall behind his desk.

Very impressive ;)

jecasc




msg:4389304
 8:28 am on Nov 21, 2011 (gmt 0)

If they want to put something on the label they could put:

"Helps against thirst on the label."

Nobody needs a label like this on a bottle of water - and if the companies selling this water did not expect people to believe in an additional health effect - why would they even consider putting something like this on the label?

When you go shopping nowadays you can't tell a food store from a pharmacy. Unproven health claims everywhere.

Of course you can always argue if a specific health claim is ok or not - and agree or disagree with a specific decision. But report this in such a misleading way - that a law has been passed that specificly bans a certain claim shows how low the standards in journalism have become.

wheel




msg:4389351
 12:10 pm on Nov 21, 2011 (gmt 0)

My wife used to work for a water research facility. The PhD's that worked there wouldn't touch bottled water. Claimed that the testing and safety for these companies wasn't anywhere near what it was for tap water.

enigma1




msg:4389507
 6:44 pm on Nov 21, 2011 (gmt 0)

EU has a notorious reputation ruining businesses one way or another. Forcing companies what to print or not to print on labels is just another sign where they're heading with their "booming" economy.

It's one thing a label to state something that truly causes harm and another to state something obvious to be used for marketing. How different that would be for having a red eye-popping label that reads "NEW" and attracts consumers. I guess at some point that would also be illegal because it doesn't provide any value to the product according to the mentality that goes on here.

As of the water details it's not like that at all. Bottled water is different than tap water. Could be worse could be better depends on the manufacturer depends on what other nutrients it contains, where it is stored how long it's stored and then where the tap water comes from, etc. But they aren't necessarily the same.

Also water DRIs for adults is almost 4L for males and almost 3L for females. There are many factors there too may require different intake.

As of UK I just love the way they implement regulations. Since you mentioned tobacco earlier on, ok so there is a regulation you cannot purchase tobacco if you're under 18 I think. Ok fine. But if you're 98 years old, there is absolutely no problem. I mean you can buy and smoke 10 cartons, even if they'll send you into oblivion. It's truly to care and to protect the public.

As of the so called "common market" in EU is not too common. It's practically a joke. Any country can impose special restrictions on specific products imported by other member states or not. So following this rule, a manufacturer on another member state could produce bottled water and sell it in UK without the regulation imposed on him? I think it's possible if this applies to UK only. So one God knows what's the game behind.

Leosghost




msg:4389513
 6:57 pm on Nov 21, 2011 (gmt 0)

incoherent and inaccurate..carry on

jecasc




msg:4389527
 7:34 pm on Nov 21, 2011 (gmt 0)

EU has a notorious reputation ruining businesses one way or another.


The emphasis here is on "reputation". Take the biggest outrages you have heard of about EU regulations and then put them into the search engine of your choice together with the keyword "myth" and you will very likely have a match.

enigma1




msg:4389584
 9:41 pm on Nov 21, 2011 (gmt 0)

incoherent and inaccurate..carry on

Which part you find difficult to comprehend or think it's inaccurate?

The emphasis here is on "reputation"

You mean the article talks about a myth? You would likely get a match on any set of keywords you enter.

Leosghost




msg:4389587
 9:51 pm on Nov 21, 2011 (gmt 0)

I didn't say "incomprehensible"..and as for inaccurate ..either you already know..in which case I'll not rise to the bait ..I have better uses for my time..and if you don't know..then sorry :) but I gave up teaching for free in public over 30 years ago ..

Nowadays I not only charge highly for teaching and all other work ..but I also refuse clients..:)

enigma1




msg:4389598
 10:13 pm on Nov 21, 2011 (gmt 0)

No actually I don't know what you found inaccurate, and curious how you'll ever get any clients (who you charge highly like the manufacturers charge 1000 times more for the same water as you said) if the government gets in between your business pretty much denying common sense with unsubstantiated claims.

lawman




msg:4389599
 10:17 pm on Nov 21, 2011 (gmt 0)

Settle down boys.

wheel




msg:4389602
 10:20 pm on Nov 21, 2011 (gmt 0)

<implied>or else</implied>

lawman




msg:4389604
 10:36 pm on Nov 21, 2011 (gmt 0)

Nothing going on that a nice piece of hickory can't take care of. :)

buckworks




msg:4389633
 11:18 pm on Nov 21, 2011 (gmt 0)

How different that would be for having a red eye-popping label that reads "NEW" and attracts consumers.


Some jurisdictions have time limits on how long you may claim that your product is "NEW".

tangor




msg:4389639
 11:40 pm on Nov 21, 2011 (gmt 0)

Came late, observed quick: The only thing more common in the universe than hydrogen is human stupidity. Stupid laws are just part of the game and best we recognize it and get on with the day to day. :)

lucy24




msg:4389641
 11:56 pm on Nov 21, 2011 (gmt 0)

Nothing going on that a nice piece of hickory can't take care of.

A pliant material like willow hurts more and leaves less visible damage.

lawman




msg:4389645
 12:06 am on Nov 22, 2011 (gmt 0)

I was thinking of the "hickory stick scene" in Clint Eastwood's Pale Rider.

Leosghost




msg:4389650
 12:24 am on Nov 22, 2011 (gmt 0)

So now all I'd have to do would be to include an auric word in this thread..and it would now show in some extremely NSFW serps..:))

..Politeness means I'll have to fore-go some of the questions/ comments which sprang to mind about the direction and the origins of the "knowledge" and "thoughts" expressed ( in the immediately preceding two posts ) are taking the thread :)..

This 41 message thread spans 2 pages: 41 ( [1] 2 > >
Global Options:
 top home search open messages active posts  
 

Home / Forums Index / Local / Foo
rss feed

All trademarks and copyrights held by respective owners. Member comments are owned by the poster.
Home ¦ Free Tools ¦ Terms of Service ¦ Privacy Policy ¦ Report Problem ¦ About ¦ Library ¦ Newsletter
WebmasterWorld is a Developer Shed Community owned by Jim Boykin.
© Webmaster World 1996-2014 all rights reserved