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What's wrong with America
Sgt_Kickaxe

WebmasterWorld Senior Member sgt_kickaxe us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time



 
Msg#: 4381940 posted 8:18 pm on Oct 31, 2011 (gmt 0)

A pregnant mother walks a long distance to a Safeway to purchase some items. Feeling faint she eats a sandwhich while shopping and later forgets to pay for it. A crime? yes, but she offered to pay for it immediately and claimed she had simply forgotten when approached as she left the store.

Safeway, instead of accepting the apology and the money, called police and had the woman arrested and her 3 year old daughter taken into protective custody for a day.

What's wrong with America is that if she had stolen 200 million dollars through some financial scheme as a broker/banker she would not have been arrested, much less had her child taken away. There is punishment vs the poor and punishment vs the rich and right now the severity of those punishments is reversed (meaning the party with the capability to do the most damage faces smaller consequences).

Full story - [consumerist.com...]

I think I'll avoid shopping at Safeway for a good long while, unfortunately big corp only seems to pay attention when you hit them in the pocket book. In fact I dislike the recent price increase on vegetables so much I'll start growing my own and avoid paying big corp for my produce as much as possible. That sounds yummmmy in the tummy and in the pocketbook!

 

lawman

WebmasterWorld Administrator lawman us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4381940 posted 11:04 pm on Nov 3, 2011 (gmt 0)

>>That is what I said, maybe re-read my post. I say it isn't a defence but it is a factor in determining the charges

You guys need to read my last couple of posts.

wheel

WebmasterWorld Senior Member wheel us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4381940 posted 12:40 am on Nov 4, 2011 (gmt 0)

You guys need to read my last couple of posts.

Theft crimes usually require specific intent.


There was the intent of nom nom nom. Also the action. Good enough for me, Torch the Witch!

lawman

WebmasterWorld Administrator lawman us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4381940 posted 12:57 am on Nov 4, 2011 (gmt 0)

I defer to your superior logic.

Webwork

WebmasterWorld Administrator webwork us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4381940 posted 1:42 am on Nov 4, 2011 (gmt 0)

Licenses to steal are only issued to the most privileged and erudite.

Of course, it's not called stealing. Such coarse language is reserved for peasants. No, this form of taking money is called something like "credit default swaps" or "collateralized debt obligations" or "derivatives trading".

The peasants lot in life is to get stuck with the bill when the CDS or CDOs or derivatives go bad. :(

Hey, but you know . . "Bonuses must be paid! There's a contract that says so!"

And we all know who is writing and approving those executive compensation contracts! It's the inner circle of business buddies: The Compensation Committee!

"You sit on my committee and I'll sit on your's, okay? No peasants allowed. Peasants think differently, like 'Hey, why should he/she get a bonus when the company is tanking? What's up with that? Nooooo . . '"

Maybe it's time to rip up a social contract or two and burn down the palace? Maybe social contracts - like unquestioned deference to authority - are for schmucks. I think that's what is emerging. The tea party movement was just the tinkle of china, a few right wing whackadoodles.

The thunder will be an angry middle class. Nothing like feeling a bit of pain to get someone to move. Nothing like seeing the pain isn't being shared to get a movement going.

I can't wait for some politico to say the equivalent of "Let them eat cake!" It's getting close to that. Really close.

"We're the rich! We're your friends! You NEED us! We've got the money!"

Ya. No 7/10 of 1 percent tax for you. No sir.

That would cut into your cake budget. :P

smallcompany

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4381940 posted 4:16 am on Nov 4, 2011 (gmt 0)

Torch the Witch!

Only bombs talk the right language!

Licenses to steal are only issued to the most privileged and erudite.

Of course, it's not called stealing. Such coarse language is reserved for peasants. No, this form of taking money is called something like "credit default swaps" or "collateralized debt obligations" or "derivatives trading".

The peasants lot in life is to get stuck with the bill when the CDS or CDOs or derivatives go bad. :(

Hey, but you know . . "Bonuses must be paid! There's a contract that says so!"

And we all know who is writing and approving those executive compensation contracts! It's the inner circle of business buddies: The Compensation Committee!

"You sit on my committee and I'll sit on your's, okay? No peasants allowed. Peasants think differently, like 'Hey, why should he/she get a bonus when the company is tanking? What's up with that? Nooooo . . '"

Maybe it's time to rip up a social contract or two and burn down the palace? Maybe social contracts - like unquestioned deference to authority - are for schmucks. I think that's what is emerging. The tea party movement was just the tinkle of china, a few right wing whackadoodles.

The thunder will be an angry middle class. Nothing like feeling a bit of pain to get someone to move. Nothing like seeing the pain isn't being shared to get a movement going.

I can't wait for some politico to say the equivalent of "Let them eat cake!" It's getting close to that. Really close.

"We're the rich! We're your friends! You NEED us! We've got the money!"

Ya. No 7/10 of 1 percent tax for you. No sir.

That would cut into your cake budget. :P


I couldn't but not to quote the whole thing. Bravo!

Yeah, CEO comes to the government body to help in writing new laws, then it goes back to the company. He cashed in with both gvmt and his company. And they all salute to each other.

With all the technological advancement, countries have become companies, and many of those CEOs are working frantically on making mother Earth their own (single) country.
Sure, they don't care about those that just yesterday lost their home, being that due to a bank taking it away, or thanking to one of those bombs being laid around the world.

Just typed "sociopath" in Google, and liked the first result:

[mcafee.cc...]

Sandwich thing - again - you would really need to witness it in order to give right comment. If the eater pissed off the Safeway employee, that's enough for calling the police. If not, the employee could easily charge them and let them go. Or even better, house pays tonight, enjoy, word of mouth to friends and family will make the company even better.

freejung

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4381940 posted 8:26 pm on Nov 7, 2011 (gmt 0)

Regarding the formerly alleged crime, lawman is of course correct that theft requires intent, and there's no way the prosecution could prove intent in this case -- that's why the charges were dropped. A little legal subtlety people frequently forget in these sorts of discussions: there is supposed to be the presumption of innocence, and the burden of proof is on the prosecution. You say there is no way for the woman to prove that she didn't intend to steal the sandwich, but she doesn't have to. The prosecution has to prove that she did intend to steal it, and there's no way that could be done given the facts of the case we have heard.

One problem in our society is that most people have forgotten about the presumption of innocence. When allegations are made against someone, the vast majority both in the media and in the general public assume they must be guilty.

The real outrage here is that a child was taken into custody, which must have been terrifying, over a matter of speciously alleged extremely petty theft. That's insane.

Look around, things really aren't that bad.

I find it difficult to believe we're living on the same planet, and would respectfully suggest that you look a little closer and a little broader. I can think of half a dozen severe threats to the survival of our species and several dozen crises that risk the collapse of our civilization just off the top of my head.

Regarding the specific considerations being discussed -- you are aware, right, that income inequality in the US is now at levels normally seen only in the third world? You really don't consider that to be a problem? That alone is bad enough, but to add insult to injury Wall Street has just pulled off a series of heists that would make John Dillinger turn green, and been handed vast quantities of public money as punishment for doing so.

By the real standards under which our society operates, the crime of this woman wasn't stealing a sandwich -- it was stealing way too little, and then failing to get away with it.

Leosghost

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4381940 posted 9:39 pm on Nov 7, 2011 (gmt 0)

:))

freejung

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4381940 posted 10:49 pm on Nov 7, 2011 (gmt 0)

Oh yeah, and...

A more interesting angle would be that she shops with food stamps, lives rent free in project housing, has been on welfare for 7 years, this is the third child we've all paid for, could have driven her caddy but it's in the shop, and the stop at Safeway was on the way home from her dealer's crib, the only reason she "forgot" was she was too blasted and actually thought she was home.

Wow. Just... wow.

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