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Under God

 10:18 pm on Jun 7, 2011 (gmt 0)

The American pledge of allegiance has the words "under god" yet I'm seeing more and more products/sites remove these words when repeating the pledge in their marketing campaigns.

When asked why they almost unanimously respond "because we don't want to offend anyone".

My thoughts on this is that it would probably be offensive for me to buy these products since my money has the words "in god we trust" printed on it, I shouldn't offend them by using my money to pay them for these products now should I.

I'm not sure what to do about Chrismakwanzika just yet, what money buys those presents anyway?



 10:30 pm on Jun 7, 2011 (gmt 0)

"Under god" was not in the original oath/pledge of allegiance.. it was added due to "unholy pressure" by the Irish catholic lobby ( Knights of Columbus ) in 1954..

I'm with Ed Buckner..

I'm also Irish..and Jesuit educated for a few years ;)


 10:38 pm on Jun 7, 2011 (gmt 0)

I have heard of this from others, but when I ask for specfic examples none are forth coming. The original pledge did not have "under God." it was added later. There are people who object to having it in the pledge citing the US constitution "church and state" restrictions.


 12:27 am on Jun 8, 2011 (gmt 0)

I grew up saying the pledge of allegiance, the Lord's Prayer, and singing patriotic songs. I was sent to the pricipal's office and swatted on the butt more than once. I took my own lunches, which consisted mainly of pb&j and boloney sandwiches. My childhood was such a warping experience that BT figured I was perfect for the position of Foo moderator.


 2:13 am on Jun 8, 2011 (gmt 0)

What marketing campaigns use the Pledge of Allegiance in any form? If you were selling flags, maybe.

Car dealerships frequently drape flags all over their facilities, but I don't remember any marketer incorporating the Pledge into a campaign.


 7:53 am on Jun 8, 2011 (gmt 0)

Personally I think religion should be kept out of politics and government - they should be kept strictly separate. I am a humanist and a secularist and I don't like my life being controlled and affected by the beliefs of other people.

Here in the UK we have D G REG FID DEF on our coinage, meaning "By the grace of God, Queen and Defender of the Faith". The faith is protestant christian. What if we hold any other belief?

Secularism is the way, the truth and the life. ;)


 12:56 pm on Jun 8, 2011 (gmt 0)

Secularism is the way, the truth and the life. ;)
That line is almost word for word what I said to the well meaning religious lady that came knocking on my door this morning at a very inconvenient moment, but I then ruined the effect by telling her where she could stick her propaganda leaflet.

I agree about the separation of politics and government (the only thing in the USA version of politics that is more advanced than our parliamentary system)

It has always been a mystery to me why we have a collection of bishops sitting in our unelected second chamber of government and passing laws.


 2:42 pm on Jun 8, 2011 (gmt 0)

Seriously, you think US politics has less reliance on religion than the UK?

According to the Pew Research Center, 25% of Americans are less likely to vote for Mitt Romney because he is a Mormon. Atheists fare much worse.

If 25% of the UK population even KNOW (much less care) that Ed Miliband is an atheist, I'd be surprised.

Religion is such a non-issue here in the UK. Ed Miliband my never become Prime Minister, but his faith will have nothing to do with it. The US may occasionally stray from electing White Anglo-Saxon Protestants (unlike the UK), but it will be a LONG time before they elect an avowed atheist.


 3:29 pm on Jun 8, 2011 (gmt 0)

If 25% of the UK population even KNOW (much less care) that Ed Miliband is an atheist, I'd be surprised.

I am one of the other 75% because I didn't know that. He has just gone up in my estimation. :)


 5:37 pm on Jun 8, 2011 (gmt 0)

If you ever are outnumbered and outgunned in a firefight, who you gonna promise that you'll be extra good if he/she/they see fit to let you live? ;)


 12:41 am on Jun 9, 2011 (gmt 0)

Father Christmas, the easter bunny or the tooth fairy. I'm sure the result would be exactly the same.

Seriously, you think US politics has less reliance on religion than the UK?
Not the same argument, as far as I know the USA does not have unelected religious leaders in the legislature. We do.

People are entitled to believe whatever they want, but can it be right when possession of a particular belief gives you a fast track into Parliament, even if it is only the House of Lords.


 12:51 am on Jun 9, 2011 (gmt 0)

Father Christmas, the easter bunny or the tooth fairy. I'm sure the result would be exactly the same.

Probably true. Which of the three would you call on when you're running out of ammo?


 8:37 am on Jun 9, 2011 (gmt 0)

Oh no, not the old "no atheists in a foxhole" argument. :(


 9:17 am on Jun 9, 2011 (gmt 0)

Yeah, but at least Atheists dont have to go round worrying about divine retribution.

On a related note, can an atheist force an insurance payout on the grounds there is no such thing as an "Act of God".


 9:45 am on Jun 9, 2011 (gmt 0)

God only knows? :)


 9:49 am on Jun 9, 2011 (gmt 0)

I haven't seen the tooth fairy or the easter bunny for a long time. However, Santy Claus still shows up every year and loads me up with presents. I'd have to call on Santy Claus.

BTW, you guys are way too serious about believing in nothing. Relax a little.


 10:36 am on Jun 9, 2011 (gmt 0)

Not at all serious. As Shaddows says, we are the happy guys who don't have to fret about divine retribution and rotting in some kind of hell or whatever. :):):)


 10:53 am on Jun 9, 2011 (gmt 0)

I am a Christian, and I strongly support separation of church and state in principle. That said (@Old_Honky), the bishops have a very good track record in the house of lords, and there are plenty of other religious leaders there, and no doubt many atheists, so no one belief being solely favoured. We could stick someone like Richard Dawkins in there for balance I suppose..... but the more non-politicians the better IMO.

I actually think the UK is somewhat biased against religious believers in elections. It would be very easy for opponents to paint someone very religious as some kind of "religious nut". Remember the guy who did not become an EU commissioner because he was a fairly conventional Catholic?

@BeeDeeDubbleU, @Shaddows, who worries about divine retribution? Not me! Anyway surely atheists think religions are wishful thinking, not a source of worry?


 11:13 am on Jun 9, 2011 (gmt 0)

I thank everyone for their thoughts. I allowed quite a bit of latitude here but now I'm invoking the charter and closing the thread.

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