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Al-Qaeda leader Bin Laden 'dead'
BBC News
Robert Charlton

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Msg#: 4306764 posted 3:14 am on May 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

Al-Qaeda leader Bin Laden 'dead' [bbc.co.uk]
BBC News
1 May 2011 Last updated at 22:54 ET


Al-Qaeda founder and leader Osama Bin Laden is dead, according to US media reports citing officials.

The US is in possession of Bin Laden's body, the reports say. President Barack Obama is due to make a statement shortly....

The White House site currently displays "Beginning Shortly" here...
http://www.whitehouse.gov/live/president-obama-delivers-statement [whitehouse.gov]

 

StoutFiles

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Msg#: 4306764 posted 3:22 am on May 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

This would have been more relevant ten years ago. The U.S. will treat this as the greatest thing ever though, especially Obama with his reelection bid.

buckworks

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Msg#: 4306764 posted 4:13 am on May 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

Yes, it IS a big thing. Obama spoke very well.

lucy24

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Msg#: 4306764 posted 6:35 am on May 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

Raise your hand if you remember the first season of Saturday Night Live. “Generalisimo Francisco Franco is still seriously dead.”

Come to think of it, All Things Considered in the mid '80's did something similar involving Yuri Andropov...

andyll

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4306764 posted 8:33 am on May 2, 2011 (gmt 0)


This would have been more relevant ten years ago. The U.S. will treat this as the greatest thing ever though, especially Obama with his reelection bid.


I didn't realize Al-Qaeda was no longer relevant in the world today.

jecasc

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Msg#: 4306764 posted 12:11 pm on May 2, 2011 (gmt 0)


I didn't realize Al-Qaeda was no longer relevant in the world today.

The question is however: How relevant was bin Laden for Al-Qaeda.

henry0

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Msg#: 4306764 posted 12:50 pm on May 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

The real point is:
How will explain Pakistan for "not knowing" about it!

jecasc

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Msg#: 4306764 posted 1:22 pm on May 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

How will explain Pakistan for "not knowing" about it!

I guess they will explain by saying they did not know about it. What is there to explain if you do not know something? I guess the name Osama bin Laden did not appear on the construction permit for the compound.

Essex_boy

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Msg#: 4306764 posted 3:47 pm on May 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

Thank god !

weeks

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Msg#: 4306764 posted 7:34 pm on May 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

Raise your hand if you remember the first season of Saturday Night Live. “Generalisimo Francisco Franco is still seriously dead.”
This just came to mind when I got my "afternoon update" email from my local newspaper with the headline "Bin Laden Dead." Let's see, the news broke exactly 15 hours ago...

So, you think he's really dead or tucked away for some questions? "Everyone is buying that you're dead. Your body is in the sea. So, you are dead. Welcome to hell. We've been waiting for you for a long time. Care to chat?"

Rugles

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Msg#: 4306764 posted 8:38 pm on May 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

This is a great day!

Finally, justice.

Rugles

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Msg#: 4306764 posted 8:41 pm on May 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

There are Internet related stories lines.

- The IT guy in Pakistan who lived nearby and was tweeting the raid as it happened.

- The compound had no Internet connection or phone line attached to it. Therefore suspicious for somebody that wealthy in Pakistan.

akmac

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4306764 posted 9:12 pm on May 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

I would prefer that we'd taken him alive, but oh well.

This brouhaha about not giving him a proper burial is laughable. His end was merciful compared to the end he gave so many.

graeme_p

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Msg#: 4306764 posted 8:30 am on May 3, 2011 (gmt 0)

@akmac, so you think he US should set its standards of conduct by what bin Laden does?

@andyll, actually, I do not think Al-Qaeda is of great importance. The spread of militant Islamic fundamentalism, of which Al-Qaeda is one aspect, is a huge problem, but no one really wants to tackle the problem at its roots.

Old_Honky

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4306764 posted 1:05 pm on May 3, 2011 (gmt 0)

I hope they shot the right weirdy beardy guy, there are many look a likes.

I was a bit disappointed to see the news footage of US citizens celebrating his death in almost the same manner that the Al-Qaeda sympathisers celebrate their occasional "victories", at least the US celebrants stopped short of shooting guns in the air. I thought that we Westerners are supposed to be more civilised than this.

piatkow

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Msg#: 4306764 posted 4:00 pm on May 3, 2011 (gmt 0)


How will explain Pakistan for "not knowing" about it!

More curious is why didn't the military react to this incursion so close to a major base. If they had really known nothing surely there would have been some sort of reaction.

Personally I think the Pakistani government is just playing dumb for diplomatic reasons and was actually complicit in the whole affair.

jecasc

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Msg#: 4306764 posted 4:30 pm on May 3, 2011 (gmt 0)

I thought that we Westerners are supposed to be more civilised than this.


Yes, when I saw the pictures of people celebrating I thought for a moment they would start burning Al-Qaeda flags or bin Laden puppets. And I guess they would have, if they had been available. Wonder where they always get the US flags for the burnings. There must be a flag store making a fortune somewhere in the Middle East. Imagine your customer would burn your goods immediately after purchase and would have to buy new immediately after...

There would be money in reburnable flags. Burns up to 100 times... Money back guarantee.

johnhh

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Msg#: 4306764 posted 11:33 pm on May 5, 2011 (gmt 0)

Um - so some unarmed guy gets shot in the head by troops operating in a foreign country - no trial - is that justice ?

lawman

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Msg#: 4306764 posted 2:12 am on May 6, 2011 (gmt 0)

Probably not. Justice would have been putting him on the top of a burning 58 story building and giving him the choice of burning to death or jumping.

weeks

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Msg#: 4306764 posted 2:33 am on May 6, 2011 (gmt 0)

Um - so some unarmed guy gets shot in the head by troops operating in a foreign country - no trial - is that justice ?
A worthwhile point. This is why the President said the action was taken on his command. You have to be the President of the United States to make this kind of decision legally. Was it ethical? Yes, I think so. Not easy and clear cut choice, but life is like that. That why who is in charge is important. I believe the right decision was made. And not just because it was popular.

Sometimes the popular thing to do is also the right thing to do. When that happens, we get to feel good about ourselves and each other. And, excuse me, but I am enjoying the moment.

bhonda

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4306764 posted 7:51 am on May 6, 2011 (gmt 0)

Um - so some unarmed guy gets shot in the head by troops operating in a foreign country - no trial - is that justice ?

I remember reading a quote from Obama about this (can't remember where though, sorry!) - apparently since Bin Laden was a military target, this doesn't count. Seems fair enough to my non-legal self.

bhonda

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4306764 posted 8:05 am on May 6, 2011 (gmt 0)

Found it (don't think it was Obama though, sorry) -

However, the US has maintained that Bin Laden was a lawful military target whose killing was "an act of national self-defence".

[bbc.co.uk...]

Shaddows

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Msg#: 4306764 posted 11:22 am on May 6, 2011 (gmt 0)

Personally, being from the UK and thus (along with our European neighbours) inhereting a less gung-ho approach to 'justice' than many Americans, I do feel uncomfortable with "some unarmed guy gets shot in the head by troops operating in a foreign country"

However...

Imagine he was captured. How many westerners would be kidnapped and subsequently killed when their Prisoner Exchange demands were ignored?

Who would try him, under what jurisdiction? US Civil courts cannot use (IIRC) torture evidence. Discovery would surely need access to military secrets. Not going to happen.

Military court then. Anyone feel that would be more transparent than summary execution?

Military target, minimal collateral damage (better than a missile, for e.g.), clean result. On balance, I'm happy to live with the moral ambiguity of the actual operation.

weeks

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4306764 posted 3:54 pm on May 6, 2011 (gmt 0)

Military target, minimal collateral damage (better than a missile, for e.g.), clean result. On balance, I'm happy to live with the moral ambiguity of the actual operation.
Well said. It's an imperfect world.
lawman

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Msg#: 4306764 posted 5:54 pm on May 6, 2011 (gmt 0)

Looks like our buffoons are smarter than their buffoons:

The CIA conducted surveillance on Osama bin Laden from a nearby safe house in the Pakistani city of Abbottabad, where bin Laden was killed Sunday, CBS News has confirmed.

A U.S. government source told CBS News' Chris Isham that Pakistani authorities are stunned -- and concerned -- that the U.S. was able to maintain the secret safe house without the knowledge of the ISI, Pakistan's federal intelligence service.

[cbsnews.com...]

akmac

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4306764 posted 6:25 pm on May 6, 2011 (gmt 0)

it would appear that the Pakistani intelligence community is making quite a habit of being surprised.

johnhh

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4306764 posted 10:13 pm on May 7, 2011 (gmt 0)

I read a newspaper report that what Pakistan say in public and what they do in private is two different things, the military keep things from the Government, and the Government keep things from the military.

So, guessing, ok we know you are here - but we can't say we know you are here as that would reveal we know where your target is and that would be embarrassing as well. So if we let you get on with it - then we can embarrassed but it gets rid of our problem.

What is "national self defence" next you thing you know countries will be invading other countries or having no-fly zones because they don't like the current leaders/situation - opps they have, must be some oil or arms deals around.

Democracy is all well and good - but some countries have worked on a tribal system for centuries and are unlikely to change in the long term.

Political rant over !

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