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Microsoft and Google Trade Blows Over Office 2010 and Docs
engine

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Msg#: 4132685 posted 2:32 pm on May 14, 2010 (gmt 0)

Microsoft and Google Trade Blows Over Office 2010 and Docs [pcworld.com]
The war of words between Microsoft and Google over Office 2010 and its entry into online, cloud-based applications heated up today as both companies again took shots at each other.
"It says a lot about Microsoft's approach to customer lock-in that the company touts its proprietary document formats, which only Microsoft software can render with true fidelity, as the reason to avoid using other products," Google said in a statement e-mailed to Computerworld by a company spokesman.
"This is about how Google has chosen to implement features, not file formats," argued Payne in a e-mail today. "Microsoft supports multiple ISO standards for file formats, and they are fully and openly documented, [but] Google simply chooses not to implement certain features, which results in poor document fidelity."


Earlier

Microsoft
Microsoft Launches Office 2010, SharePoint 2010, and Visio 2010 [webmasterworld.com]

Google
Google Encourages Use Of Docs, Instead of Microsoft Office [webmasterworld.com]

 

J_RaD

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4132685 posted 4:08 pm on May 14, 2010 (gmt 0)

ms office > google docs

end of story.

this blog post was just google saying "hey guys im still over here don't forget about meeee"

incrediBILL

WebmasterWorld Administrator incredibill us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4132685 posted 6:27 pm on May 14, 2010 (gmt 0)

I've played with Google Docs for some cross-country sharing situations and it's not bad for simple spreadsheets and docs.

However, regarding Office 2010, I'd like to hear some noise from OpenOffice which fired off a press release claiming "OpenOffice.org 3.2 is First Out of the Blocks in the 2010 Office Software Race" way back in February ;)

Come on Oracle, make some noise!

ponyboy96

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4132685 posted 6:44 pm on May 14, 2010 (gmt 0)

Most people still haven't adopted Office 07, so I wonder how quickly Office 10 is going to get picked up. Personally, I always thought Office 03 was easier to use than 07, but 07 has grown on me.

sgietz

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4132685 posted 6:47 pm on May 14, 2010 (gmt 0)

So, would I have to pay for the MS Office cloud? Is it extra, or included with the price of the software?

I'm just wondering what I would get beyond what Google Docs offers for free, aside from enhanced fidelity.

Sorry, but I'm too lazy to read their product pages, so I'm hoping one of you has the answer :)

Demaestro

WebmasterWorld Senior Member demaestro us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4132685 posted 6:55 pm on May 14, 2010 (gmt 0)

So here is a question. Will Office 2010 use a new default file type that Office07 can't open the way they did with office07 and Office2000?

What is the new default file type?

.docxy
.docxx
.docxz

My outrage is still just as high as when I first found out that they took the time to make the default file type of Office'07 incompatible with the previous versions.

Every client who is willing I have done them the favor of switching them over to OpenOffice. I have done this for free for any client who mentions that they can't open docx. I even give support to help them through the initial learning curve.

That is how mad I was about that decision. I actively take time from my day to make sure they lose customers over it.

Until then I didn't mind Office, except VBA has always been bad.

incrediBILL

WebmasterWorld Administrator incredibill us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4132685 posted 7:06 pm on May 14, 2010 (gmt 0)

My outrage is still just as high as when I first found out that they took the time to make the default file type of Office'07 incompatible with the previous versions.


OK, that's not an uncommon thing to do because the newer version has new types of data in it that the previous version can't understand.

However, you can always do a SAVE-AS... ".doc" for backwards compatibility as long as you haven't used any incompatible features in the new content it'll work fine.

Besides, would you prefer they leave the file name ".doc" and Office '07 just complains "Can't open file newer than Office '07"?

That would leave everything a .doc and .mess trying to figure out what was compatible with what.

Their solution to the problem is quite acceptable.

Demaestro

WebmasterWorld Senior Member demaestro us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4132685 posted 7:19 pm on May 14, 2010 (gmt 0)

Bill,

I would have had less of a problem with it if it was set up the opposite of how it works.

In Word there is very little new behavior that only works in the .docx format. I would guess about 95% of the use of Word is to write a simple word document that doesn't employ any new logic that requires the docx file type.

In the case of a document with words and maybe an embedded image or two the default file type should be .doc not .docx

MSOffice users are mostly basic users who had no understanding of why people couldn't open their word docs all of a sudden.

I still hear people cussing docx because they can't open it.

I was at a client's office last month and people are sending them resumes and they can't even open them, it sucks for the people applying and worse the reception was complaining about the people applying, calling them stupid because they send something that the reception couldn't open.

You used to be able to open Word docs in WordPad making it so one didn't HAVE to have an office suite to read .doc, I see this as an attempt force people to own a copy.

I am fine with the new file format, I do get why they have it, what I don't get is making the new one the default for basic word docs.

What they should have done is have the default be the old file format unless there was new logic that needed the new file type. Then force the docx file on them.

Most resumes, and simple word files don't fit in that category and nothing in Word warned users that if they didn't "SAVE-AS" .doc then most people couldn't open the file.

We all know the real and only reason they made the default not backwards compatible was so that people would tell their friends and colleagues that "You have to get the new version" when told that they can't open their Word docs.

remove

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4132685 posted 7:51 pm on May 14, 2010 (gmt 0)

Gotta agree with Demaestro here.

I was in college when the .docx format was introduced and you wouldn't believe the surprising amount of havoc it wreaked because students (often who got new laptops to enter school, and new Office suites with them) were creating and emailing .docx files by default and not realizing that they were different from .doc files, and their instructors couldn't open them, etc. This issue with default filetype was so silly and small, but boy did it cause a lot of headaches.

incrediBILL

WebmasterWorld Administrator incredibill us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4132685 posted 7:58 pm on May 14, 2010 (gmt 0)

In Word there is very little new behavior that only works in the .docx format


Office Word 2007 was where documents were first introduced in .docx and .docm formats so this is nothing new to Word 2010, it appears it just may have become the default.

.docx is the Word Open XML Format Document (no-macros) file.

.docm is the Word Open XML Format Document (Macros Enabled) file.

So it would appear the .docx default is an attempt to stop the proliferation of macro viruses which should be applauded.

Besides, shouldn't new hires be sending their resumes in universal PDF format so anyone can read them? Sheesh.

graeme_p

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4132685 posted 8:29 pm on May 14, 2010 (gmt 0)

Besides, shouldn't new hires be sending their resumes in universal PDF format so anyone can read them?


Try asking people to send any format you like - you will usually end up with most of them sending you .doc (or now, possibly, .docx) anyway.

We all know the real and only reason they made the default not backwards compatible was so that people would tell their friends and colleagues that "You have to get the new version" when told that they can't open their Word docs.


The point of docx/OOXML was to convince governments that it is an open format (because some have been moving to ODF, especially for archiving), while making it complex enough to make it difficult for competitors to implement it. If you have not read about the controversy and MS's shenanigans at the ISO, a bit of Googling should find a lot of stuff on it.

physics

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4132685 posted 9:22 pm on May 14, 2010 (gmt 0)

I just recommended OpenOffice to my dental hygenist who was wondering if she would have to buy MS Office for the new laptop she was planning on getting.

By the way incrediBILL, a lot of recruiters require .doc as stupid as that is...

lexipixel

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4132685 posted 5:03 am on May 15, 2010 (gmt 0)

Facebook + docs.com = attempt to cut deeper into Google docs market share of online collaborative documents.

Someday I hope they start teaching kids what ASCII and "plain text" mean again.

BTW - there are free converters from Microsoft to downgrade a DOCX (and other MS formats) so Office 2003, and even 2000 can open them -- it adds a little time to "Open File", but once it's installed it will automatically catch that you're opening a DOCX and do the conversion on the fly. (search for: "Microsoft Office Compatibility Pack for Word, Excel, and PowerPoint File Formats")

Status_203

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4132685 posted 7:59 am on May 17, 2010 (gmt 0)

Recruiters require .doc so that they can cut out your contact details before sending it on! Understandable, although it would be nice if ones that you have dealt with before would show a little trust.

piatkow

WebmasterWorld Senior Member piatkow us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4132685 posted 10:15 am on May 18, 2010 (gmt 0)


Try asking people to send any format you like - you will usually end up with most of them sending you .doc (or now, possibly, .docx) anyway.

Haven't had docx yet although I regularly get artwork in mac specific formats. Personally I only use Open Office on my own laptop. It took a little getting used to but have no problems running it under XP. A friend to whom I recommended it curses it regularly but whenever I look at a "problem" it turns out to be down to Vista not OO.

tivrfoa

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4132685 posted 2:14 am on May 29, 2010 (gmt 0)

ms office > google docs

end of story.

this blog post was just google saying "hey guys im still over here don't forget about meeee"

I agree. =)
Word 2007 is an amazing software. I don't try 2010 version yet.

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