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eBay - how long do I give a buyer to pay up?
trillianjedi




msg:3887802
 8:57 am on Apr 8, 2009 (gmt 0)

Hi all,

I sold something on eBay for the first time a bit over a week ago. The buyer hasn't communicated at all and I haven't received payment. It's odd, as he has 300+ of all good feedback from other sellers. So I'm assuming something has happened and there's a problem.

In the absence of communication from him and also in the absence of my not putting in a time limit for payment to take place in the actual auction text (perhaps that was a mistake) is there a protocol for how long I should leave it ?

Thanks!

 

BeeDeeDubbleU




msg:3887817
 9:17 am on Apr 8, 2009 (gmt 0)

To save any hassle I suggest that you try to contact the buyer again. There may be a problem at his/her end, holidays, illness, family? It would be unusual for a 100% feedback eBayer to do this.

trillianjedi




msg:3887832
 9:59 am on Apr 8, 2009 (gmt 0)

It would be unusual for a 100% feedback eBayer to do this.

Yes - I'm giving them that benefit of that doubt. Something has obviously gone wrong. They could have even died. I just don't want it to drift forever.

I've sent another message - that makes it message number 3.

What do you think - leave it until Monday ? That would make it two weeks.

topr8




msg:3887854
 10:41 am on Apr 8, 2009 (gmt 0)

all you can do is gently nudge them, with a reminder email,

there are all kinds of reasons, such as not going into work, holiday, just feeling lazy etc.

BeeDeeDubbleU




msg:3887926
 12:00 pm on Apr 8, 2009 (gmt 0)

I would suggest that two and a couple of days would be the max. This would allow for circumstances where the buyer went on a two week hol just as the auction ended. This is unlikely I know, particularly when they are experienced eBayers, but I would give them the benefit of the doubt.

PITA!

rocknbil




msg:3888094
 3:42 pm on Apr 8, 2009 (gmt 0)

Dig around in the (confusing) help files, there are recommended paths of resolution.

The first, of course, is to work directly with the buyer. You will find a function somewhere to obtain the contact details of the person you're working with, buyer OR seller. When you issue this request, the other party also receives an email: "The seller abc has requested contact details."

Usually these contain a phone number. Call them. Stuff does happen, I had one item lost in one of the largest wildfires in the U.S. history, and neither of us know what was up because UPS was being quiet.

The next is to file a NPB (non paying bidder) complaint with PayPal, in which they first send a warning, wait, then cancel the auction and take other actions (if you call them actions . . .)

With the feedback changes, you aren't able to give negative feedback to a buyer (right?) so there's no help there.

wyweb




msg:3888136
 4:30 pm on Apr 8, 2009 (gmt 0)

With the feedback changes, you aren't able to give negative feedback to a buyer (right?)

Yeah they made changes to the feedback policy and as a longtime ebay buyer I was extremely glad to see this. Sellers would wait until you posted feedback for them (and it better be positive) before they left you feedback. Your feedback was essentially being held for ransom. I bought the item and I paid for it on time. That should guarantee me at least neutral feedback regardless of what I have to say about the seller later on.

Similar situation though in reverse. I bought a print from a reputable seller. 99.9% positive feedback numbering in the thousands. Stellar reputation. I basically stole this auction though. This print was valued easily at 150.00+ and I swooped in and got it for 35.00 plus shipping. No reserve. Maybe the seller didn't know the value. I don't know. 2 weeks pass with no word from the seller and my own emails going unanswered. I'm asking everybody I know, "what do I do now?" I don't want to file a complaint. I just want my print. I'm getting different answers. There is no definitive this is the deadline answer though and that's what I was looking for. You use your own judgement and my judgement was that I was getting screwed.

Two and a half weeks go by and my PayPal payment is refunded. Email from seller says print was damaged in shipping and returned to her. I say that's okay, I'll take it anyway. She says no, sorry, she can't in good conscious sell damaged goods. Can I see return shipping documentation, can she take pix of damaged print and send to me? No, sorry, I'm afraid not.

I gave her negative feedback. She gave me negative feedback, even though I'd paid within hours of the auction's close and done everything humanly possible to make this a smooth transaction.

I complained to ebay. I mean what is REALLY up with this anyway? How can I get negative feedback when I paid on time? There was nothing in place at that time to address this except Square Trade. I filed a complaint. 29.95 just to file the complaint but I was pissed and would have paid 100.00. Supposedly some independant, unbiased arbitrator looked over the case and came to the brilliant conclusion that we should both withdraw our negative feedback, chalk it up as a failed experiment and walk away from it.

I quit ebay for 6 months after that in protest. I'm back in it now but it's no more Mr. niceguy.

How long do you wait? Until you can't stand it anymore I guess.

My apologies for the rant....

topr8




msg:3888895
 11:57 am on Apr 9, 2009 (gmt 0)

wyweb - i feel for you! many times i've 'won' several great buys on ebay and the seller comes up with some lame excuse for not sending the item, basically they realise that the item was way too cheap.

i never bother to persue people beyond reminder emails, buyers back out and so do sellers for all kinds of reasons and whatever the ebay rules. despite the seeming protection it is virtually unregulated.

rocknbil




msg:3889113
 5:13 pm on Apr 9, 2009 (gmt 0)

....Sellers would wait....Your feedback was essentially being held for ransom.

So now, sellers have absolutely no input for scammers, rip-off artists, non-paying bidders, basically the playing field is no longer level and it's an open field on ransom by the buyer.

I have stopped using eBay, for me, it no longer exists, and this was the final rub. Hopefully this transaction doesn't show you the ugly side of this story.

cornwall




msg:3889152
 6:01 pm on Apr 9, 2009 (gmt 0)

I gave her negative feedback. She gave me negative feedback, even though I'd paid within hours of the auction's close and done everything humanly possible to make this a smooth transaction.

That happened to me too, I haven't bothered to use Ebay since.

T_Miller




msg:3890646
 6:51 pm on Apr 11, 2009 (gmt 0)

eBay allows you to file a non-paying bidder/buyer report after seven days. We do it for every NPB on the 7th day as you have to start that process to get a fee refund (after 7 more days). And jeesh, it's BUY IT NOW (on our listings), you click 3 screens to commit to purchase, why can't they pay at the same time? (off rant)

The NPB claim will shake out things out most of the time.

wyweb




msg:3891634
 9:05 pm on Apr 13, 2009 (gmt 0)

So now, sellers have absolutely no input for scammers, rip-off artists, non-paying bidders, basically the playing field is no longer level and it's an open field on ransom by the buyer.

Ummm... I don't really think that's the intention rocknbil. "Scammers, rip-off artists, non-paying bidders" are dealt with separately by ebay. What I was talking about here was a well intentioned buyer who wins the auction and pays within hours of the auction's close, gets a BS item (or in my case no item at all) and then leaves negative feedback for the seller. Seller retaliates (and this EXACTLY what it is - Retaliation) and leaves negative feedback for buyer.

How in the world can I get negative feedback when I pay on time? My only obligation in this transaction is to make sure the money arrives in the sellers hand, that it's the full amount and that it arrives on time. I did that.

What else am I obligated to do?

What else would my failure to do warrant negative feedback?

I'm not a scammer nor a rip-off artist nor a non-paying bidder. The seller already HAS my money. The examples you illustrate have nothing to do with my situation whatsoever and are dealt with separately by ebay.

rocknbil




msg:3891749
 1:05 am on Apr 14, 2009 (gmt 0)

This is not about your scenario, it's about the plight of trillianjedi, and I hope it never comes to that. It's about the imbalance that eBay has set forth by this change. As a seller now, in this scenario, it's relevant to any eBay seller because this buyer may never pay up . . . and leave bad feedback, and you'll have no recourse.

So let's say you get fed up, file the NPB. Buyer gets the first warning, as they always do. They pay up, email you "sorry, was away." All nicey nicey.

Next morning you have a neg and a nasty comment, and you're just stuck with it, can't even explain yourself. This is the point I raise.

Scammers, rip-off artists, non-paying bidders" are dealt with separately by ebay

Have you ever been on the selling end of this? It's a freakin' nightmare, and they are hardly really "dealt with." It's a total mess. Equal feedback was the only thing that really held it in balance among the constructive users, now that it's gone, it's chaos.

wyweb




msg:3891758
 1:27 am on Apr 14, 2009 (gmt 0)

No, I've never been a seller rocknbil. Always a buyer. I'm sure your points are valid. I would never pretend to dispute that. There is something very, very fundamentally wrong with a system that allows a seller to hold hostage a buyers feedback though. Ebay themselves realized, at long last, how bogus this policy was and have now reversed it. I rest my case on that one...

This is not about your scenario, it's about the plight of trillianjedi

Of course it is, and somehow or another the subject of feedback got introduced and I felt at liberty to include my own experiences with same.

Have you ever been on the selling end of this? It's a freakin' nightmare, and they are hardly really "dealt with." It's a total mess. Equal feedback was the only thing that really held it in balance among the constructive users, now that it's gone, it's chaos.

I'm really confused about this. If I'm a buyer and you're a seller and I win the auction and pay you my money and I do it within the time alloted.. how can you give me negative feedback?

[edited by: lawman at 11:43 am (utc) on April 14, 2009]

wyweb




msg:3891761
 1:39 am on Apr 14, 2009 (gmt 0)

And if you're a seller selling quality merchandise, merchandise that's represented fairly and accurately in your descriptions, I really don't see what you've have to worry about.

tangor




msg:3891767
 2:03 am on Apr 14, 2009 (gmt 0)

When the playing field was balanced, feedback meant something. When it started being gamed, it was broken by eBay (badly). There is now no incentive for fair play. What we see these days is a prime example. eBay seller for 6 years... now ex-.... because buyers who paid on time then complained to achieve refunds or negative feedback applied, or cried no delivery (when signed receipts are in hand) etc. etc. etc. Not playing in that sandbox anymore. And those were the "good" buyers.

The customer is not always right.

wyweb




msg:3892200
 4:48 pm on Apr 14, 2009 (gmt 0)

because buyers who paid on time then complained to achieve refunds or negative feedback applied, or cried no delivery (when signed receipts are in hand) etc. etc. etc. Not playing in that sandbox anymore. And those were the "good" buyers.

I don't know about that tangor. I'm sure you have a valid point. And I've never sold on ebay so I have no perspective from that point of view. If signed receipts are in hand then I would think you have recourse. If no delivery has been made, then again, I would say you have recourse.

What I do know is this... hypothetical now.. I win an auction for a 1947 gummy bear. 50 bidders on this item and I win it.. yee haw. I pay seller his/hers 157.40 plus shipping within minutes of auctions close - which I do on a consistent basis. I pay fast and I pay with good coin. No problems on this end.

Buyer ships me 1947 gummy bear but it's damaged. In fact it's not even recognizable as a gummy bear. I initiate correspondance with seller. I mean lets handle this informally if at all possible. Seller says basically F you. I sent you a 1947 gummy bear and that's what you got.

What recourse do I have at this point? I didn't get a 1947 gummy bear as described.

I file negative feedback against the seller.

The seller, who's been holding my feedback hostage the whole time in return for his own positive feedback, also files negative feedback on me.

WTHell

I'm the one that got screwed here. Not the seller.

Me. The buyer. The buyer who paid good money on the friggin pretense that this was an actual '47 gummy bear when in actual fact it wasn't.

Anyone who argues this is probably a scammer themselves and I am friggin' done with this conversation

trillianjedi




msg:3892210
 4:56 pm on Apr 14, 2009 (gmt 0)

Problem solved - buyer got in touch - was a family emergency and he was offline for a bit.

Thanks for the input.

wyweb




msg:3892217
 5:00 pm on Apr 14, 2009 (gmt 0)

ahh well.. all good things, etc, etc...

It's been an enlightning thread regardless. I can see now how scamming sellers treat good buyers.

Glad it came out okay...

rocknbil




msg:3892343
 6:59 pm on Apr 14, 2009 (gmt 0)

If I'm a buyer and you're a seller and I win the auction and pay you my money and I do it within the time alloted.. how can you give me negative feedback?

This is my point exactly. Most sellers want to uphold their reputation. There is a portion of get rich quick scam artist sellers, but seriously, almost all of them can be spotted within seconds of reviewing their auctions and other details.

Most sellers WANT to please the buyers. They have a need to do so to insure future business.

But buyers have no such need. They could really care less. Some of them will drop bad feedback just because they can, because it feeds their power trip monkey. Get too many bad feedbacks as a buyer? Just open a new account. Cool, now I can harass the seller I have a grudge against and make it look like there are multiple bad transactions. I can ruin someone's business with no real consequences and that makes me feel special.

And if you're a seller selling quality merchandise, merchandise that's represented fairly and accurately in your descriptions, I really don't see what you've have to worry about.

See previous. Like it or not, with as much hope I hold for humanity, it can't be denied: many people in this world are just plain nut jobs, or have such a dysfunctional life that ruining someone's day is the only way they can get out of bed in the morning. There's plenty to worry about, and eBay has taken away our defenses.

I had one guy - someone local, I know who he is - bid on an item, never pay, waited until it all played out so he could drop a negative feedback on me. (I think his motivation was just jealousy . . or maybe he just doesn't like me . . whatever.) I waited weeks. Multiple emails. Looked up his contact info, left phone messages. After three weeks, filed a NPB. I spent HOURS chasing a lousy $25.

Within hours of the resolution of the NPB, he drops a negative feedback and a smart-a comment. My ONLY NEG. One. So he's opbviously been getting my emails all along, and this was done specifically out of malice, without ration, just to piss me off (or try to) and ruin my perfect feedback score.

I hit him up face to face, "Yea, how's it going [USER NAME]. . . . thanks for hassling me on eBay." He denied it completely. But didn't look surprised.

Mind you, this was before the feedback change. So it's nothing new.

Not to drag out an oft-beaten topic, but

What recourse do I have at this point? I didn't get a 1947 gummy bear as described.....
I file negative feedback against the seller.

Okay, so you dropped a neg, but did you even try to file a dispute with eBay? This is a classic case: "item not as described." I've had disputes too, as a buyer . . . I was sent wrong item, seller claims it wasn't, we argued for a bit, I filed dispute, which was enough to get a refund.

jecasc




msg:3892410
 8:37 pm on Apr 14, 2009 (gmt 0)

How in the world can I get negative feedback when I pay on time? My only obligation in this transaction is to make sure the money arrives in the sellers hand, that it's the full amount and that it arrives on time. I did that.

No, you also have the obligation to provide a correct delivery address, to make sure the parcel service is able to delvier the parcel, to pick up the parcel at the post office if you were not at home, to check the track & trace info that was sent to you (so you can see the parcel is in transit and its not the sellers fault it was delayed). And you do not have the right to threaten negative feedback if the seller does not give you a discount after the transaction has already been completed, to claim the parcel did not arrive although you had to provide a signature and even had to show your identity card at the post office when you picked up the parcel. And you do not have a right to do a chargeback because you "did not like the item" - without even returning it or even writing an email that you were not satisfied.

You have no idea what customers are capable of. I could fill a book with stuff like that.

wyweb




msg:3892878
 2:21 pm on Apr 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

Well, I stand corrected. I've never asked for discounts nor threatened negative feedback if they weren't given. I have always provided a correct delivery address. I've never done a chargeback because I "did not like the item." All of my transactions with the exception of one have been favorable. The one that wasn't was a nightmare.

Obviously from the input here there are two sides to this story. I can only talk about my side as a buyer but it's quite apparent that sellers face their own dilemma as well. I don't know about that, yet I have no doubt that your concerns are sincere.

I pay my money. I do it on time and I do it with good coin. None of these other concerns apply to me. I want my item delivered within the specified time frame and I want it to be at least close to what was described in the text and image descriptions. Anything else I can let go and have done so in the past.

My job - as a buyer - is to get you your money and to ensure that it's legit. These other things.. proper address, etc... that should go without saying. If I don't provide you with a proper shipping address - that's on me friend. That's my bad and there isn't a dang thing I can say about it. You've got my address and you've got my money. Given this, how can you give me negative feedback? I did what I was supposed to do.

Fortunately ebay recognized this as well, although they took their own sweet time in doing it. The feedback system is great in theory. Unfortunately that's all it is.. a friggin' theory...

jecasc




msg:3893247
 8:59 pm on Apr 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

These other things.. proper address, etc... that should go without saying.

If it only were so. 99% of the customers are perfectly fine, but one in a hundred seems to be a perfect lunatic. The guy with the signature and the identity card even reported me to the police for fraud. However after I faxed the police the track & trace info, the signature and the emails I never heard from them or him again. What he was thinking - I never will find out...

cornwall




msg:3893820
 3:44 pm on Apr 16, 2009 (gmt 0)

You've got my address and you've got my money. Given this, how can you give me negative feedback? I did what I was supposed to do.

Fortunately ebay recognized this as well, although they took their own sweet time in doing it. The feedback system is great in theory. Unfortunately that's all it is.. a friggin' theory...

I am with you all the way on that. It really got up my nose to be threatened with negative feedback by a dreadful seller, who was getting away with murder by offering a terrible service, yet keep up his ratings by blackmailing buyers into removing negative feedback

The fact that there were sellers like that and until recently ebay did nothing about it has stopped me using ebay. The fact that have now changed their system is too little and too late. I have not used ebay since,and will not do so again on principle.

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