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I neutered my neighbor's cat
Well, I let the vet do it
spaceylacie




msg:3317277
 9:49 pm on Apr 20, 2007 (gmt 0)

I think it's been over a year since I posted that I was thinking about neutering my neighbor's cat(well, you know, let the vet do it) and most seemed to think that I was over-reacting to the night time noises and that neutering their cat was not the right thing to do. I trapped him, brought him to the vet, had his stuff removed then he escaped from my house a few days later... I was trying to keep him indoors for a week or 2 as the vet advised.

Anyway, my neighbor's cat went home nutless and not one person in my neighborhood has complained in over a year, including the owners. Just thought I'd post an update.

 

arieng




msg:3317283
 9:55 pm on Apr 20, 2007 (gmt 0)

Sounds like you have enough cajones for the both of you combined. My compliments.

rogerd




msg:3317284
 10:00 pm on Apr 20, 2007 (gmt 0)

Great story, Lacie. I'll be careful not to make you angry, lest I wake up in a hotel room missing a kidney and who knows what other bits. ;)

Did you have to take the cat to some kind of no-questions asked vet that normally works on mob pets that show up with gunshot wounds?

King_Fisher




msg:3317285
 10:02 pm on Apr 20, 2007 (gmt 0)

If the owner complained you should say "nuts to you!"

spaceylacie




msg:3317290
 10:08 pm on Apr 20, 2007 (gmt 0)

No, rogerd, our local spay/neuter clinic doesn't ask many questions. :-)

percentages




msg:3317418
 4:02 am on Apr 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

Well that sounds like a great way to convince the neighbor's teenage son that he shouldn't be playing his drum kit so often!

Can I have your vet's phone number?

travelin cat




msg:3319062
 5:16 pm on Apr 23, 2007 (gmt 0)

I'm afraid I can't agree with this. You took someone else's property, a live one at that, and had it surgically altered?

Are you crazy?

If you were my neighbor I would have sued you in to oblivion.

You have violated so many rules of law, etiquette, moral decency and so much more I don't even know where to begin.

This kind of act is not acceptable.

If this is some sort of bait, well, I went for it,if not you should be at least embarrassed for your behavior and at most be jailed.

KenB




msg:3319071
 5:24 pm on Apr 23, 2007 (gmt 0)

As far as I'm concerned it should be the law that ALL "domesticated" cats that are allowed outdoors other than purebred show cats be spayed or neutered. In most parts of the world cats are an invasive species that do an extreme amount of damage to native species (e.g. birds). Anything that limits their spread should be implemented as is done with any other invasive species.

Oh in many states cats are NOT considered completely domesticatable and thus are not afforded the same "property rights" as dogs or other domestic animals. In other words the cat's "owner" might have had no legal grounds to sue on.

[edited by: KenB at 5:26 pm (utc) on April 23, 2007]

Key_Master




msg:3319081
 5:38 pm on Apr 23, 2007 (gmt 0)

invasive species

Anything that limits their spread should be implemented as is done with any other invasive species.

Do humans fall into this category too?

topr8




msg:3319157
 6:42 pm on Apr 23, 2007 (gmt 0)

and not one person in my neighborhood has complained in over a year

... although if ex-tom's could talk!

rj87uk




msg:3319162
 6:45 pm on Apr 23, 2007 (gmt 0)

I neutered my neighbor's cat

lol, I love it!

madness.

travelin cat




msg:3319173
 7:03 pm on Apr 23, 2007 (gmt 0)

Ken,

I agree that all pets should be neutered, at least those that will not be bred. All of our cats have had their reproductive abilities eliminated.

It's just the concept of somebody doing it to another persons pet.. this is unacceptable.

mrjohncory




msg:3319210
 7:36 pm on Apr 23, 2007 (gmt 0)

Uhhhhhh... I'm with "travelin cat" here... What were you thinking? I mean, I also agree with Bob Barker, all pets should be spayed or neutered but I don't understand why you couldn't simply communicate with your neighbor.

Couldn't find your old post...

Did you fight with the neighbor before you did this?

Was there a reason you couldn't talk to the neighbor about it?

Did you tell the neighbor afterwards?

If you didn't tell the neighbor, I hope the cat's OK. If it had had a complication of some kind, who would have noticed to get it proper medical attention?

Certainly not going to applaud you for this. Sorry. Seems kind of like a last-ditch effort. I hope you exhausted all other options first.

pageoneresults




msg:3319218
 7:42 pm on Apr 23, 2007 (gmt 0)

lol, this is just too funny!

I neutered my neighbor's cat.

Snicker, snicker, snicker...

I neutered my neighbor's kid.

spaceylacie, you are to be commended. Others may not have been as nice. Its the thought that counts.

Ferrell cats are pests and should be treated as so.

I'm having a similar problem but not being as nice. I'm just trapping them and calling Animal Control. Hopefully they will find a home for them.

I'll take a little responsibility to help control the Ferrell cat population in my neighborhood which can get out of hand quickly if not kept under control.

lawman




msg:3319315
 9:35 pm on Apr 23, 2007 (gmt 0)

Funniest post I've read in a long time. :)

travelin cat




msg:3319328
 9:46 pm on Apr 23, 2007 (gmt 0)

pageoneresults,

It's one thing to neuter feral cats. That is a responsible act. TNR (Trap, Neuter and Release) programs are in most major cities and should be expanded to ALL cities.

It's another thing to take somebody else's animal and have surgery performed on it.

As I said before, the op is lucky that was not one of my pets.

SuzyUK




msg:3319374
 10:18 pm on Apr 23, 2007 (gmt 0)

is the TNR programme any more different in this case than usual - or is it just bypassing the "cat goes feral, someone else takes responsibility stage"?

spaceylacie, wish I'd done that instead of trying to to take on and explain, I too know a programme that acts, I think you showed more responsibility than most cat owners (and I love cats!)

must remember this for next time it happens ;)

[edited by: SuzyUK at 10:22 pm (utc) on April 23, 2007]

travelin cat




msg:3319400
 10:45 pm on Apr 23, 2007 (gmt 0)

Suzy, I think this comes down to property rights as well as animal rights. As much as I hate to think of my cats as property rather then living beings, they are in fact my property and I will do whatever I can to protect them.

The TNR program here in Northern California is very successful. But again, that is for feral animals, not pets.

Even if the neighbors were irresponsible, she had no right to do what she did...

bobothecat




msg:3319404
 10:57 pm on Apr 23, 2007 (gmt 0)

Even if the neighbors were irresponsible, she had no right to do what she did...

I agree... and in Florida, there's no legal precedence for her to do this either. Best hope the neighbor isn't a WebmasterWorld member... or it could get costly.

My neighbor's dogs are noisy... can I entice them over to my yard with some steak and take out their 'bark-box'? :)

lawman




msg:3319434
 11:41 pm on Apr 23, 2007 (gmt 0)

travelin cat should probably stay away from spaceylacie's house. :)

travelin cat




msg:3319448
 12:05 am on Apr 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

:)

pageoneresults




msg:3319470
 12:48 am on Apr 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

travelin cat should probably stay away from spaceylacie's house.

And keep your cat away too! ;)

King_Fisher




msg:3319472
 12:53 am on Apr 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

He still goes out every night, but he can't remember why!

KenB




msg:3320219
 4:47 pm on Apr 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

Do humans fall into this category too?
Potentially yes. It depends upon the definition of "invasive species". Commonly the term invasive species refers to a species that was either intentionally or unintentionally introduced into an ecosystem by human intervention. A species that moves into an area on its own means (e.g. birds colonizing a volcanic island) is not always referred to as an invasive species. So based on such a strict definition humans would not be an invasive species as they colonized on their own accord.

On the other hand, I'm sure that there are extremist environmentalists who would like to see the "stray" humans given the same treatment as stray cats. ;)

Even if humans and cats are both invasive species one big difference is that we have the ability to moderate our own impact on the ecosystems we invaded if we put our minds to it. Cats have no ability to self regulate.

It's just the concept of somebody doing it to another persons pet.. this is unacceptable.

This isn't how the law sees it in many states. Cats can not be truly domesticated the way dogs can and as such they are deemed as semi-wild in legal terms. This means they are not afforded any legal protections as another person's "property". Personally speaking given the sheer level of destruction cats due to small animal populations and the fact that they can not be trained to suppress their natural instincts to hunt the way dogs can I'm quite happy that cats are not afforded protection as personal property.

I'm sure any cat owner will agree that one doesn't truly own a cat, rather the cat decides to "tolerate" humans and cohabitate with them out of convenience. Dogs on the other hand are a pack animal and become totally subservient to their human master, which fills the role of the alpha pack leader.

As I said before, the op is lucky that was not one of my pets.
More properly put you were lucky it wasn't one of "your" cats as the odds are there wouldn't have been squat you could do about it legally speaking in many states.

Suzy, I think this comes down to property rights as well as animal rights. As much as I hate to think of my cats as property rather then living beings, they are in fact my property and I will do whatever I can to protect them.
You had better research your state laws, because again you may very well find that you have no property rights when it comes to cats.

The TNR program here in Northern California is very successful.
I applaud any TNR programs. Although it would be better yet not to do the release part unless it is in a controlled refuge. Again individual cats can kill thousands of small animals like song birds. All TNR programs do is make sure the cats can't reproduce, this doesn't stop the killing of native wildlife.

My neighbor's dogs are noisy... can I entice them over to my yard with some steak and take out their 'bark-box'?
Again dogs are typically afforded legal protection as property that cats are not afforded in many states.

Personally speaking, although I am allergic to them, I think cats make wonderful house pets, but they should never be allowed outdoors unless done in a manner that ensures they don't leave the yard. Once they leave said yard/home they should be afforded no legal protections because of the destruction they do to native wildlife.

If someone wants to keep cats they must be responsible for them and letting cats roam beyond one's home/yard is not being responsible.

pageoneresults




msg:3320235
 5:02 pm on Apr 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

I'm sure any cat owner will agree that one doesn't truly own a cat, rather the cat decides to "tolerate" humans and cohabitate with them out of convenience.

Quote of the week!

abbeyvet




msg:3320397
 6:54 pm on Apr 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

one doesn't truly own a cat

Dogs have owners, cats have staff.

In my experience of this sort of situation (which is considerable as I was/am a vet, though no longer practicing) people who don't neuter their cats are not making some high minded decision, they just don't care enough.

I came across many neighbour situations like this when I was in practice, and we always first advised approaching the 'owner' of the cat. This elicited one of two responses. The first (and most common) was that they didn't own the cat, they just fed it. The second is not printable, but basically could be interpreted as "I don't care, now go away". Fair enough I suppose.

We did neuter cats for the neighbour several times, knowingly, and probably at other times unknowingly. How exactly would you go about establising ownership?

The neighbour taking responsibility for the situation almost certainly gave the cat a chance to live a much longer and happier life - unneutered tom cats roaming at will very seldom die of old age.

Never on any occasion were there any reprecussions, if the owners even noticed they keep quiet about it, pleased that it hadn't cost them a penny I suppose.

I made no apology for it then, and I make none now. Nobody owns a cat, and as far as I am concerned an unneutered tom with freedom to roam IS a feral cat. Comparing it to debarking a dog (something I would not even do for the owner of a dog) is not a valid comparison.

MamaDawg




msg:3320546
 8:56 pm on Apr 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

Although it would be better yet not to do the release part unless it is in a controlled refuge. Again individual cats can kill thousands of small animals like song birds. All TNR programs do is make sure the cats can't reproduce, this doesn't stop the killing of native wildlife.

Gotta disagree with you there ...

Besides TNR, managing a feral colony includes feeding them. Well fed feral cats will not decimate the wildlife population.

A couple of us in my neighborhood have been caring for a very small group of ferals for several years, including TNR (which has been keeping the colony small!), vaccinating and feeding them. The top male of the colony occasionally sleeps on my porch after he eats. More than once I've seen a bird light on my porch railing and sit there reading him the riot act. Invariably, this cat just blinks, yawns and goes back to sleep (that is, if he bothers to open his eyes at all). As long as his tummy is full he could care less - he'd rather curl up and sleep.

A hungry feral will hunt birds, but cats are also pretty inept at catching them - many, many more birds fall victim to poisoning with pesticides or natural causes than to cats. Feral's diets are made up mostly of small rodents and bugs, and as far as I'm concerned if they want to keep the local field mouse population in check (before they get into my basement) they're more than welcome to do so!

[edited by: MamaDawg at 8:57 pm (utc) on April 24, 2007]

KenB




msg:3320884
 4:54 am on Apr 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

Besides TNR, managing a feral colony includes feeding them.

I'll agree with this.

Well fed feral cats will not decimate the wildlife population.

Unfortunatly all too often this is just wishful thinking very frequently cats will kill just for sport, whether well fed or not. I've seen this documented time and time again by countless highly reliable sources.

A couple of us in my neighborhood have been caring for a very small group of ferals for several years, including TNR (which has been keeping the colony small!), vaccinating and feeding them.

While it is good to hear that the cats are getting fixed, the goal with any colony should be for its eventually elimination via attrition (e.g. no new members and existing ones die of natural causes).

The top male of the colony occasionally sleeps on my porch after he eats. More than once I've seen a bird light on my porch railing and sit there reading him the riot act. Invariably, this cat just blinks, yawns and goes back to sleep (that is, if he bothers to open his eyes at all). As long as his tummy is full he could care less - he'd rather curl up and sleep.

What you see on your porch is hardly indicative of all the cat's behavior. It is what you don't see, especially at night, evening and early mornings during cats favored hunting times that is a serious threat.

A hungry feral will hunt birds, but cats are also pretty inept at catching them - many, many more birds fall victim to poisoning with pesticides or natural causes than to cats.

Wrong, totally wrong! I will provide documentation at the end of this post and hopefully the links will be allowed to stay. Cats are extremely able hunters and have been responsible for the extinction of many species around the world.

Every referenced source is either a government website or a highly respected news type site:

[environment.gov.au...]
From an Australian government website: "The feral cat is found in most habitats across Australia. It has caused the extinction of some species on islands and is thought to have contributed to the disappearance of many ground-dwelling birds and mammals on the mainland."

[news.nationalgeographic.com...]
From a National Geographic News article: "Some feline experts now estimate 70 million feral cats live in the United States, the consequence of little effort to control the population and of the cat's ability to reproduce quickly." and "Exact numbers are unknown, but some experts estimate that each year domestic and feral cats kill hundreds of millions of birds, and more than a billion small mammals, such as rabbits, squirrels, and chipmunks."

[nationalreview.com...]
National Review Online: "Well, the inconvenient truth is that cats kill more American birds, particularly songbirds, than DDT and pesticides ever did." and "Wisconsin is considering allowing residents to shoot feral cats in part because a respected study found that felines kill between 7.8 million and 217 million birds in Wisconsin alone. Data from a Michigan study suggest that some 75 million birds are killed there just in the summer alone." and "Estimates for how many birds cats kill in the United States vary almost as widely. The lowest estimates are around 100 million and go up to the 2.5 billion, though the consensus seems to hover around half a billion. What this leaves out, of course, is that many vulnerable bird species are particularly threatened by cats (and, alas, sometimes dogs as well), a non-native predator that often kills small animals for the fun of it."

[wildlife.state.nh.us...]
New Hampshire Fish and Game Department: "Cats in the wild present a danger to wildlife. In a fragile ecosystem with endangered birds like plovers, cats can have a disastrous impact on the population,"

[mdc.mo.gov...]
Missouri Department of Conservation: "That fuzzy, affectionate, yet aloof, ball of fur sharing your home is one of the most efficient hunters in the animal kingdom." Also from their cat myths section:

Myth: "A well-fed cat won't hunt." Fact: "A healthy well-fed cat is a more efficient hunter than a hungry feral one because cats hunt even when they aren't hungry."

Myth: "A collar bell alerts birds." Fact: "When a belled cat sneaks up on a bird, the clapper in the bell usually doesn't ring until the final pounce, when it's often too late for the bird to respond."

[coastalconservancy.ca.gov...]
State of California: California Coastal Conservancy: "Feral cats are a leading cause of bird and mammal extinctions on islands all over the world."

[dnr.state.mn.us...]
Minnesota Department of Natural Resources: "Is a fat cat a satisfied cat? Apparently not when it has birds nearby. According to a recent report by Wisconsin researchers, free-ranging domestic cats destroy millions of birds in that state each year." and "Many of these tubby tabbies kill for fun rather than for food. Unlike wild predators, domestic cats hunt whether they are hungry or not." and "Originally domesticated from an ancestral wild cat of Europe and Africa, cats are now considered a separate species (Felis catus). Though not legally classified as such, the domestic free-ranging cat is actually a harmful exotic species, like a zebra mussel with name tags."

[npwrc.usgs.gov...]
United States Geological Survey: Northern Prairie Wildlife Research Center: "House cats, whether your own or feral, are one of the most devastating predators of songbirds, especially at bird feeders." and "Estimates vary about how many cats live in the United States, but a conservative estimate would put the population at about 55 million. If 80 percent of those cats were a combination of feral or house cats that were allowed outside, and if only one cat in 10 caught one bird per day, 4.4 million birds would be killed per day by free roaming cats."

[epa.gov...]
U.S. Environmental Protection Agency: "the effects of most non-native animals pale in comparison to the damage done by domestic and feral (free-ranging and wild) cats. Our domestic and wild felines are widely recognized as the greatest threat to birds of any non-native predator. There are probably more than 100 million domestic and feral cats nationwide. Clawed or declawed, well-fed or hungry, bell or no bell, all cats that spend time outside will hunt and kill birds, as well as other wildlife."

I could keep compiling references for hours on this subject, but I think this makes my point. Cats, whether well fed or hungry, feral or tame, clawed or declawed kill hundreds of millions to billions of wild birds and other animals annually. Cats are exceedingly able predators and by all definitions an exotic invasive species that is responsible for the extinction of countless species of birds and other animals around the world. If we were looking at this issue from a purely environmental stance, cats should be treated like any other exotic invasive species and every effort made to exterminate ALL feral cats with the definition of feral being ANY cat that is roaming free outside. No exceptions.

I know that sounds harsh and breaks the heart of cat lovers, but think about all of the native species of birds that are being wiped out around the world. Should we do nothing to protect native species from such a devastating exotic predator? Should we allow cats to decimate small animal populations because we love cats? I think not. If cat lovers want to keep cats as pets AND are going to have any respect for natural ecosystems then they will accept the fact that domestic cats have no business being allowed outside and accept the fact that feral cats must be eliminated (yes exterminated, killed, or whatever euphemism you want to use) like any other invasive species in order to protect native species from extinction.

[edited by: KenB at 4:57 am (utc) on April 25, 2007]

pageoneresults




msg:3320892
 5:05 am on Apr 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

KenB, you are to be commended too! I take it this is a passionate subject for you? It is becoming one for me too as I have a neighbor with two cats that are let loose to roam free. She had three, but I already trapped one of them. I'm working on the other two now. ;)

Cats left to roam free are pests.

And, I have this awesome tree in my front yard that I watch throughout the day while working. Those damn cats stalk the birds from within the tree. Its amazing to watch them at work and sad once they've obtained their goal. I keep a water gun close by that squirts up to 50 feet. You should see the cat's faces when I sneak up on them and catch them in the tree. Its priceless! They know they are getting a bath and will have to jump a very long distance to get out of my path.

Here kitty, kitty, kitty. I've got some treats for you. Kitty? Here kitty, kitty, kitty. Ah-ha, there you are...

buckworks




msg:3320895
 5:19 am on Apr 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

If you're going to push the emotional buttons about cats killing poor little birdies, you must on the other hand acknowledge the service they provide by helping to keep rats and mice under control. Those rodents cause huge economic and environmental damages, including carrying diseases which can be fatal to humans.

A well-fed cat doesn't hunt "for fun", it would be more accurate to say they hunt "for later". A cat will hunt when it has the opportunity and come back to eat its catch later when it does need a meal. It's rather like you stocking the cupboards with groceries.

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