| 1:17 pm on Jul 10, 2006 (gmt 0)|
You have all my sympathies, support and condolances. Is it perhaps possible that your wife is having difficulty distinguishing business from personal assets? Have you registered a company and obtained a company bank account, complete with accounts etc.? Once you are running a proper payroll system (which is easy when it's just one or two on the roll) it will be impossible to withdraw extra or spend more than was previously allotted, it will have to wait until next regular pay-day.
Another thing you may want to wonder about is why your wife feels she wants to go out shopping so frequently. Is it because she is unhappy or feels that there is something missing in her life? Maybe a heart-to-heart with her will make her feel happier and avert her craving for spending money.
You mentioned your worries about the fickel nature of the internet and the risks which an internet income brings. Risk management both protects your money and your income, so start paying more into your pension, fixed term bonds and look into the possibility of some form of insurance against sudden loss of earnings or illness.
It seems that your wife was quite happy spending less when you had less, so having less again may well be the answer to all your questions. Money is not the be-all-and-end-all of life, far from it. Seriously cutting back on my earnings to do more of the things I want to do this year has been one of the best decisions of my life so far.
There was something which pulled you both together, and I'm sure it's just as strong now as it was then, even if it might be obscured by layers of dust and responsibility. Don't forget that your wife is the expert on herself and is, above all, the person you need to listen to and be honest with.
| 2:03 pm on Jul 10, 2006 (gmt 0)|
|Is it perhaps possible that your wife is having difficulty distinguishing business from personal assets? |
I guess this is a tough one to explain. Short version is, she cleans out the personal bank account because she believes that there is always more money to put in it. So half way through the month there's nothing to pay bills, shopping, fuel etc. of course I put more money in, she sees more money and as that is "personal money" she spends it on her "person". It's really hard to try and describe the mentality she seems to have adopted without simply sounding like I'm saying "my wife's a b*tch".
I suppose I'm not really sure if this situation has been brought on by the sudden surge of money or whether she is just that type of person so I was trying to see whether anyone else's relationship has been affected in this way by dramatic changes in financial circumstances by working in the internet industry i.e. where money comes into the household without any sort of visual representation of the business to focus on.
I mean, even most of my friends talk to me like I've had some sort of lottery win rather than worked my backside off to create a successful business. They seem to think it's all luck.
| 2:10 pm on Jul 10, 2006 (gmt 0)|
Create a new bank account - set up a direct debit of 20% of your earnings and put it into the new bank account. Don't tell the wifey. One month if you are using Google adsence set it to hold payment for a month and then thats a good example for her to see that you will not always have money and its a good idea to stop spending as much.
PS. Never tell her about the 20% thing untill your 60...
| 2:16 pm on Jul 10, 2006 (gmt 0)|
|vincevincevince - Don't forget that your wife is the ... person you need to listen to and be honest with. |
|rj87uk - Don't tell the wifey. |
And so it begins! ;)
|Create a new bank account - set up a direct debit of 20% of your earnings and put it into the new bank account |
Like I said, she cleans out the account so I have no choice but to pull the money out of somewhere to pay for bills etc. I even had to pull out half of my tax fund and had to spend several months paying fines/charges for not paying my tax.
[edited by: internetheaven at 2:17 pm (utc) on July 10, 2006]
| 2:22 pm on Jul 10, 2006 (gmt 0)|
Start hiding assets now - find out what countries Scotland has no legal asset seizure agreements with - so we don't have to read your sad post about losing everything in Foo a couple months from now.
| 2:23 pm on Jul 10, 2006 (gmt 0)|
hmmm, maybe best to take vincevincevince's advice, who am I to give relationship advice? Im just some player passing time in the foo forum of webmasterworld.. now vincevincevince is a pro at this foo game :)
| 2:25 pm on Jul 10, 2006 (gmt 0)|
You could buy a new wifey in Thailand I think... :)
| 2:34 pm on Jul 10, 2006 (gmt 0)|
|Start hiding assets now - find out what countries Scotland has no legal asset seizure agreements with - so we don't have to read your sad post about losing everything in Foo a couple months from now. |
That has been on my mind for the past four years that this has been going on. I thought it was a passing "wahoo! we've hit the jackpot" phase she was going through that would settle down. Obviously not ...
Thanks for all the marriage (well, hide the money in your marriage) advice you've given. But like I said, the main reason I started this thread was to find out if anyone else had experienced this with their partner or even themselves. I'm not really looking for sympathy, I'm one to live with the decisions I make and try to work on them myself. I would appreciate any experiences others could provide rather than marriage/financial advice from self-proclaimed "players" ;)
|You could buy a new wifey in Thailand I think... :) |
Been receiving a lot of "russian bride" spam lately ... a sign from god perhaps? ;)
[edited by: internetheaven at 2:35 pm (utc) on July 10, 2006]
| 2:44 pm on Jul 10, 2006 (gmt 0)|
|Been receiving a lot of "russian bride" spam lately |
Ahh, you see that’s where your going wrong mate, its not spam that’s just highly targeted promotional emails specifically targeted for you.
Tell you what, I'll do everything your wifey does at the moment and i'll only spend half of what she spends.
PS. not up for anything in a bed room, maybe play golf or something...
| 3:34 pm on Jul 10, 2006 (gmt 0)|
You didn't say what sort of items your wife is buying, so it's hard to tell whether she's being unduly extravagant or if you're being unreasonably tight-fisted. Make sure you're not so paranoid about future security that you're too constipated to enjoy a few luxuries today. There has to be a balance. Never forget that in the long term we are all dead.
If your wife genuinely has trouble wrapping her mind around long-term money management, you need to find ways to stay ahead of her so that basic obligations are always under control.
In our family I tend to be the impulse spender and hubby is the one who counts every penny. Our different styles have been a source of tension at times over the years, but we muddled along somehow. These days, I earn the money and he keeps track of it. It works well.
One simple thing we do to reduce money hassles is to pay bills in advance when that's allowed. We have credit balances in all sorts of places from the phone bill to my taxes owing. That provides a cushion against income fluctuations without creating the same temptations that having the same funds sitting in a bank account would.
| 5:56 pm on Jul 10, 2006 (gmt 0)|
|You didn't say what sort of items your wife is buying, so it's hard to tell whether she's being unduly extravagant or if you're being unreasonably tight-fisted. |
She bought herself a Jaguar X-Type (£32,000), two months later she decided she didn't like it and bought a BMW X5 (£55,000), two years later she bought herself a BMW 7-series (£30,000 - we were skint so there wasn't enough for a brand new one this time) and two weeks after that she decided she'd rather go back to a BMW X5 again.
During the times when I was saying that we were really, really on the borderline i.e. when I was using the tax money to pay for bills she was still spending around £5000 per month just on things for herself. She was adamant that she was "really restricting herself".
That seems extravagant to me. Honestly, I wouldn't have asked the question if I didn't think she had a serious problem. You may have noticed that the original thread question had the word "divorce" in it, this is something hugely serious to me because with a child on the way if she continues in this manner there will be nothing for the child. Whilst she was driving around in her £55,000 BMW X5 I was driving around in a £3,000 Ford Explorer - she is not thinking of anyone but herself. She quit her job the second we got married and hasn't worked since.
Like I said, all this time I have been under the impression that it was just a phase due to the sudden huge influx of money after being skint for so long. But now I'm not so sure and I am looking to hear similar stories to try and make sense of it.
| 6:15 pm on Jul 10, 2006 (gmt 0)|
I have a friend in a similar situation, really and truly feel sorry for him. He's a generous man towards his family and finds it hard to say to his wife who exploits and yes I do mean exploits his good nature.
Despite doing all that has been suggested here she still spends like money is just water.
I truly sympathise with your plight, its brought my friend to a near breakdown as he feels he is a failure in some way, by not being able to give her all she wants.
I wouldnt recommend not telling the truth to your wife, how about placing the money in a hard to access account? like short term deposits etc
| 6:19 pm on Jul 10, 2006 (gmt 0)|
Sounds like trouble to me. It often seems difficult when one person works and the other doesn't or they have/had occupations that maybe the other doesn't understand.
It's not so much the money, though sometimes dealing with an influx is tough, especially if someone else earned it and you don't appreciate what it took to get it to come in.
Extra shoes/clothes/misc fun stuff, home improvement here or there seems reasonable, but Jag, BMW, etc.. Sounds excessive to say the least. Problem? Absolutely.
If one person drags down the credit rating on joint accounts, both will suffer for quite a while.
Had one buddy who only made 40-50K US. His wife worked part time and made about 25% of that. She eventually ran up about 40K in bar tabs and other useless stuff on their joint credit cards.
They split and when they got divorced since he made 75% of the household income, he got stuck with 75% of those bar tabs. Had to declare bankruptcy and start over.
| 7:56 pm on Jul 10, 2006 (gmt 0)|
I have a bit of experience here from a previous marriage. Some people will spend all that is available to them without a care about tomorrow. As a matter of fact, telling her that it could dry up tomorrow probably just makes it worse - she must buy stuff now, while she still can.
You cannot change her. You wish you could, but you can't. I guarantee she can cry and scream longer than you can tolerate the crying and screaming, so don't even engage in that game you can never win. Just accept her as she is and then you'll see that the best thing to do is quit discussing finances with this child. This is what is best for her, for you, and for the baby.
Pay yourself a salary and leave the rest in business accounts or invest it or whatever. I hate deceit, but you have to do what is obviously best for your family, so don't feel guilty.
| 11:22 pm on Jul 10, 2006 (gmt 0)|
Wow, tough position, I really feel for you! Money is one of the leading causes for divorce..too much, or too little it doesn't seem to matter. Incorporating and paying yourself (and even your wife) an adequate salary and investing the rest may work. Just tell your wife that you only have X dollars per month to spend and she'll have to be happy with just that. Less taxes to pay by incorporating as well.
My wife and I are similar in the way we think about money, so the sudden influx of cash hasn't been too much of a problem. In fact, I'm at odds as to how to spend it sometimes (we are getting better at that though ;) I really wish you luck and hope you can solve this problem soon!
| 12:27 am on Jul 11, 2006 (gmt 0)|
Been there, internetheaven, in a previous marriage - sometimes you just have to look after your partner.
Do you run the business as a 'business' so it pays you? Reduce the amount coming into your personal accounts over the next couple of months, so the amount available just isn't there - if she doesn't see money on the personal account she may not feel its spendable.
Are you investing? Do it faster (per month) so the money is gone.
Do you have multiple accounts for personal use? Ear mark one as 'the bills' and don't let her pay 'personal' expenses out of it.
You might have to 'do the dirty': the next time she buys something really over the top, like a new car, default on the payment. Tell her the money wasn't there. Maybe let it be repossessed. That sort of thing is usually a big fat slap in the face that they are overdoing it - and cheaper in the long run.
They're white lies, really, as some people simply can't handle the good times.
We weren't particularly flush when I had similar problems, but the issues were the same. We got him a credit card, but I kept it maxed out except when the spending was agreed; the extra interest was way less than him spending the limit every month. Certain accounts were both-to-sign.
Not fun, but needful to look after the spouse in the long run.
| 1:09 am on Jul 11, 2006 (gmt 0)|
|You might have to 'do the dirty': the next time she buys something really over the top, like a new car, default on the payment. Tell her the money wasn't there. Maybe let it be repossessed. |
Holy cr*p! If you'd met her you wouldn't suggest such a thing. It wouldn't work, we've had several instances of this already naturally (i.e. I didn't set it up she really did zero us) each time is was "my" fault for not managing "our" money better ... have her car repossessed? I'd be afraid to fall asleep at night ...
Everyone is still giving tips on hiding the money, separate accounts for things etc. but like I keep saying - I've already tried that. She opened my mail once and found a bank account where I was hiding money. It was just a Christmas fund I was trying to save up (we had an awful Christmas the year before because she'd zero'd the bank account by the 3rd Dec) but the way she went on you'd think I'd just cheated on her!
|if she doesn't see money on the personal account she may not feel its spendable. |
Unfortunately, since the introduction of chip and pin in this country she doesn't even have to look at how much is in the account. She just spends, spends, spends until the card is rejected then she phones me up angry from the shop saying how embarrassing it was to have the card rejected at the counter. So I dump more money in and the cycle continues. I could hide the money anywhere in the world but it wouldn't make a difference. If she maxes out all her store/credit/debit cards within the first ten days of the month then when it comes time to pay the bills I have to take the money from somewhere. And no, just paying the minimum so that they have nothing to spend just isn't an option your forgetting, she's not just overspending she gets angry if she can't buy the things she wants.
Yes, I already consider myself a great big p*ssy for putting up with it - I can command a negotiation with a bunch of company execs or dominate an argument between suppliers/buyers (male or female!) - but getting my wife to step away from the credit card seems to be beyond me.
Thankyou for all the responses but I still haven't seen anyone who says that this is common or even another experience where the situation is the same i.e. you're the only one who works, you work in a non-physical business such as internet marketing and a sudden large influx of cash pushes your partner to suddenly think they're a millionaire. I suppose I'm really grasping at straws here to try and find some explanation.
| 1:27 am on Jul 11, 2006 (gmt 0)|
internetheaven, this is not common, not ok, and not excusable. As a woman, and a wife, and a person, I am appalled by your wife's behavior. It sounds to me like she needs a good dose of reality and a maybe a 12 step program.
I am very sorry that you are in this position. It's a difficult one. I can't imagine anything that will change her behavior except a shift in her own thinking. That's something that has to come from within, and I dont' think you can force it or cause it to happen.
| 1:55 am on Jul 11, 2006 (gmt 0)|
Sounds like you can go two different ways with this situation:
1. Run your internet business as a true business - money goes into a business account (only you have access), issue payroll checks to yourself and wifey. Start changing the extra money from business account into less "fluid" forms such as CDs, savings bonds, etc. for better long-term stability.
2. Alternative - start visiting either Switzerland or the Cayman Islands and open a bank account there quietly.
If you are captured or killed, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions.
| 3:09 am on Jul 11, 2006 (gmt 0)|
|Holy cr*p! If you'd met her you wouldn't suggest such a thing. It wouldn't work, we've had several instances of this already naturally (i.e. I didn't set it up she really did zero us) each time is was "my" fault for not managing "our" money better ... have her car repossessed? I'd be afraid to fall asleep at night ... |
That seems like the problem. She knows she can get away with it, she know the money will come from somewhere. she knows whatever she charges will somehow be covered.
Sounds like there are a few routes -
Counseling - it's got to be dealt with.
No more joint accounts, cut up the cards with your name on them or take your name off of them.
Unless some steps are taken and they may need to be drastic, it sounds like it will keep happening.
In this biz, you never know when the cash flow will slow or stop and if and when it stops, those debts are going to have to be dealt with and it doesn't sound like anyone is going to help deal with them.
Even you don't feel taking immediate steps that involve her, consider talking to a pro who deals with stuff like this to get a better perspective than the arm chair quarterbacks here.
| 6:00 am on Jul 11, 2006 (gmt 0)|
Hearing more details, I would agree that there's something seriously wrong here. This is definitely not normal.
Get some professional advice, coming from at least two angles. One issue is how to protect your family's financial assets against her irresponsible spending. That will probably be the easy part. The other will be how to address or cope with whatever psychological or spiritual imbalances are driving this.
Someone mentioned 12-step programs ... check out some of the accompanying programs aimed at supporting the families of people who are in the grip of negative addictive behaviours. Some of their insights and coping strategies might be useful for helping you through this.
| 6:13 am on Jul 11, 2006 (gmt 0)|
Holy cr*p! If you'd met her you wouldn't suggest such a thing- Sounds like she's from the Fens!
To be honest youve a real problem here, I think if she cant discuss or manage money like an adult, you ve really got to think of yourself.
Can you go on like this?
The hardest decision are the best in the long run.
| 6:20 am on Jul 11, 2006 (gmt 0)|
1. If you start out on the right road with your wife tomorrow, understand that it is going to take a very long time for her to change (10+ years).
2. Do not tell her to stop spending.....that will not work! I suggest putting her on a budget, one credit card with a limit of less than 10K per month is a start. This measure is purely to ensure you stay solvent.
3. Make her happy....She is most likely spending because it is an escape mechanism. Occupy her time with things she enjoys, other than shopping, and she will spend less money.
Simple stuff like eating out at nice restaurants, long trips to the beach, vacations.......blow her mind with decision making, and her "spending boredom" will desist.
I've been married to your wife's "twin" for 18 years. It took me 12 years to "train" her to a degree of comfort. It's a rough ride, not easy, and many will simply give up and get divorced.....it has occurred to me more than once!
If you can work through it, it is a great thing. But, it will take a lot of time, after 18 years I'm not at the end of the road......just at an acceptable situation that still needs improvement.
The biggest thing I can share with you, is to share your time with your wife. We can get too consumed with making money from the net, and that can cost us more!
Give more time to your wife, and you will see that she doesn't want to shop so much :)
| 8:34 am on Jul 11, 2006 (gmt 0)|
|Even you don't feel taking immediate steps that involve her, consider talking to a pro who deals with stuff like this to get a better perspective than the arm chair quarterbacks here. |
Tried that, we've been through four different councillors/physcotherapists (seems the only place you can see an actual phsychiatrist in the UK is on the NHS!). She refuses to go back and see them if they don't seem to be taking her side.
|Make her happy....She is most likely spending because it is an escape mechanism |
Okay, I wasn't going to deviate from my original query regarding the financial issues but this keeps coming up. Short version only - she doesn't want to spend time with me, she only wants me to give her attention when she wants it like when someone has p*ssed her off or she wants me to agree to a purchase she's making so that I "can't complain about it later because we discussed it". If I try to spend some time with her within a few minutes she will say something like "we've got to buy ******, shouldn't you be working?"
|Give more time to your wife, and you will see that she doesn't want to shop so much :) |
The opposite is true, when I don't spend so much time with her she feels I'm getting distant so slows down her spending before I try to leave again (3 attempts to leave her already, she did something quite drastic last time to stop me). But if I spend time with her she thinks everything is okay between us to feels free to spend what she likes.
|I've been married to your wife's "twin" for 18 years. But, it will take a lot of time, after 18 years I'm not at the end of the road......just at an acceptable situation that still needs improvement |
Hell no! So by the time the kid has grown up and left we'll finally be at a situation where we can afford to buy them a new pair of shoes instead of her? How did those 18 years impact your kids (or did you not have any?).
| 8:39 am on Jul 11, 2006 (gmt 0)|
well, judging by some of the posts on this thread, the divorce rate probably is high yes.
But regarding the specific issue in question: it does sound like you have a problem there. I'm assuming you didn't marry a woman who is stupid so tbh it sounds like she needs professional help - her behaviour is like that of an addict.
| 8:51 am on Jul 11, 2006 (gmt 0)|
|checks to yourself and wifey |
Glad the word has caught on, its a good word.
Something to think about, take a break from the wifey, move out, change credit card details & send her cash no access to any banks or cards at all. See how she feels - if its only money shes after think about meeting new people but the trick here I would guess is not to let anyone know that your loaded find a woman on the merit of friendship / love and the money wont matter bonus yes. Sounds like something from a movie: rich guys pretends he is poor finds another poor girl they fall in love and all is happy again.
PS. Also tell her to get a job and shes only allowed to spend her money thats pretty much the way my parents done it.
| 9:39 am on Jul 11, 2006 (gmt 0)|
I have not had a similar experience and I can only give you my sympathy on this issue. Reading your posts there are a couple of issues that creeped up in my mind.
Could I ask you how long you've been married (to know how long she's being used to 'spend' a lot). Also how was she before the wedding (work-wise and money spend-wise)?
Could I also ask you if the baby was a 'joint' decision or if her drastic act the last time you tried to leave was to 'get pregnant'?
I am seeing this from an external point of view, and for me the bottom line would be that you have to think about yourself and your family (as in baby) first. As a first step, I would seek legal advice to guarantee that in the event of a divorce you get the legal 'guard' of your baby.
Then if you still love her and want to make things work, give her an ultimatum saying that for the next x months you will only give her £xxx per month and she'd have to live with it.
You take care of the bills and everything else and the £xxx is her 'pocket money' - if she wants any more she'd have to get back to work. As it's been mentionned before try to put as much money as you can out of her reach and treat her like a kid - i.e. open a bank account for her where you put the money on and give her a debit card. Her behaviour is irrational and as such you need to take drastic measures.
I was wondering if there is any way of putting a limit on how much she can spend/month on her existing cards? Get the bank on your side and limit the amount she can spend. If she spend over the limit DO NOT fill the bank accounts to allow her to spend more.
Her behaviour is not only having a negative effect on your relationship but it's also endangering your and your kid's future. You need to take the appropriate steps in order to prevent that.
| 9:54 am on Jul 11, 2006 (gmt 0)|
internetheaven, you have a problem - you have some suggestions on things you can do, but I suspect you already know what you need to do, and are just wondering if your situation is unusual.
Be assured that a woman behaving like the worst of stereotypes is neither common nor normal.
Hang tight! *hugs*
| 2:46 pm on Jul 11, 2006 (gmt 0)|
Internetheaven...sounds like you're living in a real life hell. Honestly, your wife has a huge problem that needs to be dealt with. Treat it as though she's additcted to crack cocaine. It's more than a spending habit she has, it's a disease. She doesn't seem to be too concerned with the welfare of your child or yourself. Time to look after your little one and take steps to end the insanity. Obviously counseling (four times!) hasn't worked unless the counselor sides with her. Take others advice on here and talk to a lawyer to get all of your options straight before you take action. Best of luck to you.
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