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Steve Jobs Declares Flash on the Way Out
"No one will be using Flash. The world is moving to HTML5"
martinibuster

WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4071755 posted 5:11 am on Feb 1, 2010 (gmt 0)

According to a cNet report [news.cnet.com]:

He also reportedly said that the new iPad doesn't have Flash because "whenever a Mac crashes, more often than not, it's because of Flash..."

I have to agree that Flash causes crashes and can understand why Apple won't allow Flash on some of it's products. It's bold to sacrifice functionality for a stable user experience.

Is Flash on it's way out? Is this a good thing for the Internet?

 

rocknbil

WebmasterWorld Senior Member rocknbil us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4071755 posted 5:32 pm on Feb 1, 2010 (gmt 0)

(The following is an opinion only, based on what Ive experienced with open source Flash and my own experiences debugging memory intensive Flash . . .)

Flash doesn't cause browsers to crash, poorly coded Flash does. If it happens more frequently on the Mac, I would guess the proof is in the pudding.

I don't think Mr. Jobs has any say in what goes on with non-Mac browsing.

KenB

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4071755 posted 6:13 pm on Feb 1, 2010 (gmt 0)

This is one time that I hope Jobs is right. I hate Flash with a passion.
Flash doesn't cause browsers to crash, poorly coded Flash does. If it happens more frequently on the Mac, I would guess the proof is in the pudding.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Flash enables programmers to create applets that are buggy memory hogs. I'm quite certain that more often than not all browser crashes are directly attributable to bad flash objects and this is unacceptable. I'm sure that Flash could be made to manage the bad applets better.

I depend upon ad revenues for my living, but the first Firefox add-on I tell everyone to install is Flashblock to prevent Flash objects from running unless they are truly wanted.

Flash is a menace.

rocknbil

WebmasterWorld Senior Member rocknbil us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4071755 posted 7:11 pm on Feb 1, 2010 (gmt 0)

"Flash is a menace" so are guns, Javascript, PHP, and Quirks mode design - in the wrong hands. :-)

Throwing a blanket closure on Flash is not the solution though. Flash adds awesome enhancements to the user experience, when used appropriately. Consider the following:

PayPal ripped me off, froze my account. I didn't do anything stupid, so no one should use payPal.

Someone on eBay ripped me off, and eBay should be held responsible for it's users. So no one should use eBay, it's their fault.

I can't get a project on [name your freelance site] because the clients are stating ridiculously low budgets, and providers are bidding ridiculously low proposals. So all those users should be banned and it should be the responsibility of [name your freelance site.]

Even the U.S. government recommends that part of safe browsing is to browse with Javascript disabled (don't know the location of the document, but it's out there.)

The point is, it's not Flash that's the problem, it's those that abuse it. I see this in the same light as I see things like this:

This site best viewed in Internet Destroyer

You MUST have Javascript enabled to enjoy the full features of this site

If coders programmed like they are supposed to - content accessible to all, regardless of environment or add ons - we wouldn't have this (these) perception problem(s).

KenB

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4071755 posted 7:52 pm on Feb 1, 2010 (gmt 0)

"Flash is a menace" so are guns, Javascript, PHP, and Quirks mode design - in the wrong hands. :-)


True, but I'd say Quriks mode design is always a menace. If quirks mode design is relied upon then the project is in the wrong hands period.

Now in regards to Flash vs other implements being in the wrong hands, I've never had badly coded Javascript, PHP or quirks mode design crash my browser, but I have had Flash crash my browser. I've also had some greedy Java applets grind my browser to a halt (which is why I also disable Java).

Yes on the very rare occasion some greedy JavaScript will gum up my browser, but my browser gives me the ability to kill the errant script with the alert that gives me the option to terminate the script that is not responding. I can't do this with Flash.

99.9% of the time JavaScripts on webpages cause me no problems. When I have allowed Flash to run it caused me problems most of the time by means of slowing down my browser/computer considerably.

Before Firefox and Flashblock I used to uninstall Flash from my computers just so it wouldn't cause me problems. Once I discovered Flashblock I started to allow Flash to be installed since I could keep Flash objects disabled unless I clicked on the Flashblock "play" button.

Nothing would make me happier than after dancing on the grave of IE6 to be able to dance on the grave of Flash.

incrediBILL

WebmasterWorld Administrator incredibill us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4071755 posted 8:25 pm on Feb 1, 2010 (gmt 0)

In similar news, IncrediBILL claims that Steve Jobs is out (of his mind) as he's oblivious to reality.

There are many (millions?) of sites using Flash that won't simply upgrade to HTML 5 any faster than they still haven't upgraded to HTML 4.1 transitional.

This is just Steve's way of trying to justify why Apple and Abobe can't strike a deal to play flash on all of Steve's toys like iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch, etc.

Using HTML 5 as a justification to not buy Flash while millions of iPhone customers are hobbled with an incomplete browser experience is not only ridiculous but is enough to cause legal action to rectify IMO by all the owners of these devices led to believe they could surf the entire web.

Alternatively, Adobe could put Flash in the App Store and charge just those that want Flash to use Flash which puts it back on the users and off the Apple budget.

peterdaly

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4071755 posted 8:45 pm on Feb 1, 2010 (gmt 0)

On my first generation 1.5ghz Mac Mini, the speed of the entire UI is directly related to the number and size of flash elements currently loaded and running. More flash = noticeably slower UI...scrolling, etc.

At least on the Mac, flash is a huge resource hog. I don't think the iPad/iPhone/iPod devices can run it effectively with their limited resources.

KenB

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4071755 posted 8:49 pm on Feb 1, 2010 (gmt 0)

In similar news, IncrediBILL claims that Steve Jobs is out (of his mind) as he's oblivious to reality.

Since when is this news? :-p

Alternatively, Adobe could put Flash in the App Store and charge just those that want Flash to use Flash which puts it back on the users and off the Apple budget.

Which is probably the way it should be to begin with.

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