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Firefox 4 Aims: Empowering, Powerful, Faster
engine




msg:4130805
 1:45 pm on May 11, 2010 (gmt 0)

Firefox 4 Aims: Empowering, Powerful, Faster [beltzner.ca]
Today, I presented an early product plan for Firefox 4 to the Mozilla community (live, over the web!) to share our vision for the next version of Firefox, and what projects are underway to realize it. Then I invited everyone to get involved by joining our engineering or product development efforts.

The primary goals for Firefox 4 will be making a browser:

•Fast: making Firefox super-duper fast
•Powerful: enabling new open, standard Web technologies (HTML5 and beyond!),
•Empowering: putting users in full control of their browser, data, and Web experience.
Usually software producers don’t present these sorts of plans in public until they’re finalized, but Mozilla is a little different. We work in the open, socializing our plans early and often to gather feedback and build excitement in our worldwide community.

 

J_RaD




msg:4130862
 3:45 pm on May 11, 2010 (gmt 0)

Has firefox finally realized supporting google means supporting chrome, which shrinks their marketshare?

oddsod




msg:4130871
 4:00 pm on May 11, 2010 (gmt 0)

Firefox, how about making your browser
1. Faster to load - it takes years to fire up
2. Independent from the Gorg so you don't end up blocking thousands of legitimate and clean sites

ergophobe




msg:4130884
 4:18 pm on May 11, 2010 (gmt 0)

>>1. Faster to load - it takes years to fire up

That's the #2 reason I use Chrome more and more (#1 is cleaner interface that takes up less real estate). Though I'm on FF right now.

incrediBILL




msg:4130893
 4:38 pm on May 11, 2010 (gmt 0)

How about faster to UNLOAD.

You can close the window but Firefox just chugs away in the background.

topr8




msg:4130900
 4:46 pm on May 11, 2010 (gmt 0)

my main grype with firefox (apart from the load/unload time)

is with extensions - they say, don't install an extension unless you trust the source, but how do i know for sure i can trust the source? i don't

sgietz




msg:4130949
 5:44 pm on May 11, 2010 (gmt 0)

I think we just don't like it when software becomes too popular and has to appeal to a mass market.

bwnbwn




msg:4131026
 7:38 pm on May 11, 2010 (gmt 0)

I cant stand firefox I just don't have the time waiting on the thing to load and just really don't care for it at all.

If they do what they say then I would be happy to give it a go. Only reason I use it is for browser testing.

brotherhood of LAN




msg:4131028
 7:40 pm on May 11, 2010 (gmt 0)

Full SVG support would be nice. Though IE has yet to support it at all.

incrediBILL




msg:4131043
 8:21 pm on May 11, 2010 (gmt 0)

I cant stand firefox I just don't have the time waiting on the thing to load and just really don't care for it at all.


Sounds more like an old hardware issue than a FF issue as it loads pretty quick for me, even on my netbook, pretty comparable to the MSIE 8's sluggish load.

Chrome is what you need if you want a snappy browser these days.

Unfortunately, only FF has all the add-on tools I need, not MSIE or Chrome.

More importantly, just from an efficiency POV, who closes their browsers anymore?

Maybe once a day, or once a week, but it's almost always on the screen, which really makes the time of loading the browser kind of moot.

[edited by: incrediBILL at 8:36 pm (utc) on May 11, 2010]

topr8




msg:4131052
 8:34 pm on May 11, 2010 (gmt 0)

>>Sounds more like an old hardware issue than a FF issue as it loads pretty quick for me

no, i don't think so, what slows it up for me, is the checking the compatability of extensions when you fire it up, then getting the updated extensions message - extra annoying when it says you must now restart the browser! (before i've even used it!)

incrediBILL




msg:4131057
 8:40 pm on May 11, 2010 (gmt 0)

what slows it up for me, is the checking the compatability of extensions when you fire it up


Just go into TOOLS > ADVANCED > OPTIONS > UPDATES and click off "ADD-ONS" and that problem is gone.

You can still manually check for add-on updates from TOOLS > ADD-ONS using the FIND UPDATES functions.

I probably reload the browser once a week so it's never much of a problem ;)

ergophobe




msg:4131081
 9:45 pm on May 11, 2010 (gmt 0)

>>who closes their browsers anymore?

without a cold reboot every few days, bad things happen to my computer. Lots of things don't work without reboot. I've thought of just putting a browser in my startup folder, but it already takes so long to boot with the stuff I have in there now.

>>all the add-on tools I need,

Less and less true. Chrome is getting a pretty good suite of extensions nowadays.

Alcoholico




msg:4131092
 10:04 pm on May 11, 2010 (gmt 0)

who closes their browsers anymore?


I do. I have to, at least with FF otherwise I end up with no memory at all. FF is a hungry beast. I like and use Opera, efficient, fast and apparently spyware free. FF only for checking sites. I will definitively not install google spyware but since I have to test every browser I use its closest relative, Safari and/or use Chrome on an old spare laptop.

J_RaD




msg:4131098
 10:26 pm on May 11, 2010 (gmt 0)


Chrome is what you need if you want a snappy browser these days.


Don't forget about opera.


Also remember using googles browser SHOULD raise privacy issues. If you really want to run it i would look at SRware IRON it has all the evil goo funk removed.

kaled




msg:4131102
 10:57 pm on May 11, 2010 (gmt 0)

Their highest priority should be to fix bugs...

1) There's the infamous pause bug.
2) There's the colossal memory leak bug.
3) There's the Vista/ZoneAlarm bug (which Mozilla blames on ZoneAlarm).

Oddly, bugs 1 & 2 seem to have vanished on my computer in the last few days despite the fact that I haven't changed anything - weird. Doubtless they'll be back before long.
The only thing I can think of that I've done that could conceivably have affected anything is that I've temporarily disabled javascript a few times recently.

Kaled.

claus




msg:4131121
 12:07 am on May 12, 2010 (gmt 0)

Empowering: putting users in full control of their browser, data, and Web experience.


Does that mean that we can now remove all Google components and all that "phone home" stuff from our browser?

albo




msg:4131170
 3:29 am on May 12, 2010 (gmt 0)

I use FF only for a few webdev add-ons. Keeping add-ons to a minimum seems to keep the speed in check. Looking at the slide show, I see quite a few webdev tools native. I hope this doesn't bloat the new FF so as to slow it down... We'll see.

grelmar




msg:4131220
 6:22 am on May 12, 2010 (gmt 0)

Hmmm... y'all made me have to go and check/time some things.

Time to launch: (From clicking quick launch to home page being displayed)

Chrome: 0.7 seconds
Opera: 1.2 seconds
Firefox: 2.3 seconds
IE 8: 3.4 seconds

(Intel Q9550 - Quad core @ 2.83GHz - 8GB RAM, NVIDIA GTX260, XP Pro 64Bit)

So, yah, Chrome and Opera win the speed test at launch quite handily. For render times? I really don't notice any difference, and it's usually far more dependant on the load of the server that's sending up the page than on the browser.

But let's look at those times again... The WORST offender (IE 8 - isn't it always the worst offender in most categories?), is still up and usable in just over 3 seconds.

Sure, there's a noticeable difference between the browsers (we've done tests at our company, and most people can "notice" a lag of around .05, or 1/20th of a second for visual input - which is why even high def movies in the theatre still only need to pump out 24 frames per second). But does noticeable difference equate to lost productivity in the browser?

Given that most people launch their browser exactly once per day, when they start their system up, I'd argue not really.

What does make a difference in productivity, is usable screen space and extensions.

For usable screen space:
Chrome wins again, but not by as much as you might think. Because Firefox is so customizable, I've condensed all buttons, menus, the address bar, and the search bar, into one bar at the top of my browser, with tabs directly below. It's very usable and sleek. I have left the status bar at the bottom of the page because the info it contains about routing (if you're paying attention), and also because it contains the server spy info (an add-on, look it up), and some other useful info sent there from other add ons.

The top of Chrome is actually fairly fat. With the bookmarks bar open, it's actually 21 pixels wider than the way I have Firefox set. With the bookmarks bar close on Chrome, it's 6 pixels slimmer.

The status bar at the bottom of Firefox (which if you don't use it, you can get rid of) costs me 27 pixels, compared to Chrome.

So, let's add that up. Worst case, with Firefox displaying all the info I want (status bar and all), and Chrome trimmed right down, Chrome gets me 33 pixels of viewable screen height. About 2 lines of text.

If I get rid of the status bar in FireFox, I'm out 6 pixels of viewable screen height.

If I trim Firefox right down and leave the bookmarks bar open on Chrome, all of the sudden I get 21 pixels of screen height in FireFox's favour

(If you don't believe me, IM me, and I'll make the screen caps I based this on available).

On a 1920x1200, 27" monitor, guess how much 33 pixels difference means to mean? Very close to bupkus. My laptop has a paltry 1680x1050 resolution. Those 33 pixels don't make much difference to me there either.

So far, Chrome wins on speed (to a degree that I don't care about), and screen footprint (again, only barely).

But then we move to extensions...

And no other browser out there can even come close to the extensions available for FireFox. Chrome is almost there, largely by creating a framework that makes it simple to convert FireFox plugins into Chrome plugins. But the depth of the community and available extensions just isn't there yet.

And day to day, it's those extensions that make my life easier, and more productive.

So, long story short, I'll stick with FF for now. If they can make the UI a bit slicker, and the underlying engine snappier, that would be great. But at the moment, no browser has a big enough lead in these two departments to drive me to change.

It's not like it was 5 years ago, when Netscape and IE were both such fat pigs in need of getting skewered. No, the browser market has evolved to the point where the differences in speed and UI are so small, across the board, that the real difference is in the productivity aspects.

graeme_p




msg:4131237
 7:09 am on May 12, 2010 (gmt 0)

without a cold reboot every few days, bad things happen to my computer

It is not Firefox's fault that other software on your computer is broken.

I usually reboot less than once a week, and that is more often than I need to.

mlemos




msg:4131246
 7:38 am on May 12, 2010 (gmt 0)

Could this announcement had anything to do with this news that PHP Developers (and probably other Web developers) are switching massively to Google Chrome, mostly for not standing Firefox being so sluggish these days?

[edited by: tedster at 7:39 am (utc) on Mar 18, 2011]

Matthew1980




msg:4131273
 10:14 am on May 12, 2010 (gmt 0)

Hi there people,

I am looking forward to this new version, especially if the get rid of the issue of ff running in the background after you have closed the browser down.

One suggestion as I wouldn't mind having done in the new version, is remembering the tabs, or favorite tabs, so that you need not keep manually opening them everytime you open FF - I have the same three tabs open all the time, email-WebmasterWorld-localhost. Would be nice if I could set them as default tabs to be loaded when FF starts.

Kaled: good points:-
Their highest priority should be to fix bugs...

1) There's the infamous pause bug.
2) There's the colossal memory leak bug.

The pause bug is down to a JRE/ or java plugin the FF uses, upgrade the JRE and the issue goes - I have been fine for around a month or so ;-p

And am I the only person who dislike chrome? I just don't like it...

Cheers,
MRb

grelmar




msg:4131347
 1:27 pm on May 12, 2010 (gmt 0)

Matthew1980:

I'll raise my hand. I've tried really hard to like Chrome. It's technically elegant, it's fast... But for some reason, the look and feel of it, the whole UI... It just doesn't blend in with the rest of my desktop and looks frakkin ugly as sin. It sticks out like a hairy wart on a prom queen.

Matthew1980




msg:4131369
 1:59 pm on May 12, 2010 (gmt 0)

Hi there grelmar,

Phew! Not alone then :)

As per your research, I like the fact that I have my FF exactly as I want it, I value the viewable area when browsing around, and when you get software updates that say "Do you want to install this toolbar for faster searching", I always select NO, because firstly: crtl+F->alt+home->the question you want to ask, I am so used to that now, anything else would be odd.

I prefer browsers without all the clutter as you get in other browsers, I know you can customise them, but for me the simplicity of FF is great, it loads up pretty quick, but does seem to linger after you have quit. Mmph.

The UI on chrome is java powered isn't it, I think as FF is a standard win32 exe, thats why it looks 'meetier'. Java - any sort - yuk! I learned some java a few years back, so convoluted, at least C/C++ is easier by comparison

Cheers,
MRb

J_RaD




msg:4131372
 2:08 pm on May 12, 2010 (gmt 0)

I don't like chrome either.

incrediBILL




msg:4131394
 2:41 pm on May 12, 2010 (gmt 0)

Also remember using googles browser SHOULD raise privacy issues.


You think there's privacy online? Not.

The only privacy concern I have is hacking attempts which can breach everything.

Google's sandbox method of implementation for Chrome avoids many of the security problems that haunt Firefox.

Additionally, Chrome's speed of Javascript execution is second to none. When you're running complex Ajax implementations or spreadsheets in javascript, it's the only browser that gets the job done effortlessly.

A couple of items Firefox should address but I doubt it'll happen.

graeme_p




msg:4131419
 3:31 pm on May 12, 2010 (gmt 0)

The UI on chrome is java powered isn't it


I think not - the Chromium site on Google Code does not list Java as a prerequisite for building Chromium.

On the other hand, the Firefox UI is done in XUL, which means Javascript, with is slower, although probably lighter on memory, than Java.

Java has a lot of advantages over C for many applications.

Fotiman




msg:4131449
 4:02 pm on May 12, 2010 (gmt 0)

I admit to being a fan of Chrome. I love the UI (or lack thereof). I don't need all the crap that clutters the tops of other browsers. Also, the appearance is configurable (via Themes) so if you don't like the look it's easy to find another. It does everything I need for day to day browsing at lightning speeds.

I still use Firefox for testing purposes... you just can't beat Firebug (yet). However, the extensions and developer tools in Chrome have come a long way very quickly.

Both are quality browsers IMO, but Chrome wins for performance reasons. :)

ergophobe




msg:4131676
 10:37 pm on May 12, 2010 (gmt 0)

you just can't beat Firebug (yet)


Being that you're Mr Javascript, that's probably true. I don't use the JS debugging features of Firebug. For me it's "inspect element" locate style rules in CSS files, and that functionality, which I can get with Firebug Lite in Chrome.

frontpage




msg:4131694
 11:51 pm on May 12, 2010 (gmt 0)

I don't like chrome either.


Why not? It comes with Free Spyware direct from the Googleplex. LOL.

This 38 message thread spans 2 pages: 38 ( [1] 2 > >
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