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Mozilla Rethinking Its Reliance on Google
encyclo

WebmasterWorld Senior Member encyclo us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3868974 posted 6:33 pm on Mar 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

BusinessWeek: Mozilla Contemplates a Future Without Google [businessweek.com]
Google also shows up all over the balance sheet of Mozilla, creator of the Firefox browser and other software. Under an agreement between the two, Google's search engine enjoys a default position on the toolbar of Firefox, the second-most-used Web browser after Microsoft's (MSFT) Internet Explorer. (...) How much longer this pairing can last has been called into question since September, when Google introduced its own Web browser, Chrome. The prospect that Google may not re-up the three-year contract set to expire in 2011 has Mozilla considering other search partnerships and ways to generate revenue."

 

CWebguy

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3868974 posted 7:12 pm on Mar 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

Just waiting for Google to come out with an O.S. Interesting.

poppyrich

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3868974 posted 8:33 pm on Mar 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

I'm surprised it took so long for somebody at Mozilla to peek their head out from underneath the bus and talk about the obvious.

Solicit donations via PayPal, perhaps?

How about teaming up with a major news organization?

The winds of change blow yet again...

Strapworks

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3868974 posted 9:12 pm on Mar 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

Don't mind the big Goog behind the curtain.
Of course Google is working behind the scenes as how to do something themselves rather than pay someone. Google is all about money, they don't want to be anyone's cash-cow, if they can do it themselves and make a profit than consider your "pairing" screwed.

[edited by: Strapworks at 9:13 pm (utc) on Mar. 12, 2009]

weeks

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3868974 posted 10:37 pm on Mar 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

Yup, they are going to have to get out of bed every morning and go to work and do better work than others, every day now and forever. That's how they got to where they are and it's going to keep them there.

Is the valve of traffic, on average, going up or down? Sounds like Mozilla thinks it's going down. Interesting. (What isn't going down in value these days?)

If they build a better browser, however, they can make it up in volume. That's what is working for them thus far. And it should in the future. Easy? No.

Clark

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3868974 posted 11:18 pm on Mar 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

Didn't Google grab some Mozilla developers around the same time they cut that sponsorship deal? I remember thinking right then that a Google browser would soon follow. Of course I've been thinking there'd be a Google browser long before that too...

frontpage

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3868974 posted 2:11 am on Mar 13, 2009 (gmt 0)

Wow, where are all the posters at WebmasterWorld these days? It's just creepy how Goo wants to control everything, we really do need competition and I for one will stick with Firefox over Chrome.

grelmar

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3868974 posted 3:24 am on Mar 13, 2009 (gmt 0)

...we really do need competition and I for one will stick with Firefox over Chrome.

A duopoly isn't that much better than a monopoly.

I'm glad to see Safari take a bit of share, and Opera isn't going anywhere anytime soon. But they were, and still are, bit players.

I haven't seen Chrome get much traction. People "mess around" with it at our office, compatibility test it against our java apps and such, but pretty much everyone runs home to FF when work needs to get done.

But that's going to change. Google is going to get market share for Chrome simply by virtue of being Google.

I'll stick with FF until Chrome is a better product. Or some other browser. Sure, Chrome has a better rendering engine, but the extensibility and user interface of FF win (for me, at least).

I hope they can sort out a better revenue model. Having all your eggs in one basket is a bad idea, even in the best circumstances. When all your revenue comes from a company with a competing product, then there's clouds on the horizon.

JS_Harris

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3868974 posted 7:38 am on Mar 13, 2009 (gmt 0)

I rather prefer the odds of Google making Chrome a success when compared against the prospect of Mozilla finding a way to dominate search.

Mozilla needs to find a way to continue providing value for as long as it can while at the same time advancing in areas it is not dominant in right now... which is everything else.

Talk about a monumental effort being required...

rohitj

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3868974 posted 3:24 pm on Mar 13, 2009 (gmt 0)

Let's not forget Safari. Safari 3.0 is incredibly fast. It's a huge success, by most accounts, and will likely be heavily invested upon in the future. They already have a sizable chunk of the market (~10%) and could continue to grow with each release.

I'm more concerned about the business model behind the browsers. What will users tolerate? How much will search engines pay per search (if at all)? etc., Part of me worries that a browser, by itself, might not be a viable business in the future (limiting the prospects of startups joining) and more of a strategic play that only a few players can afford.

CWebguy

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3868974 posted 9:09 pm on Mar 13, 2009 (gmt 0)

I'm surprised it took so long for somebody at Mozilla to peek their head out from underneath the bus and talk about the obvious.
Solicit donations via PayPal, perhaps?

How about teaming up with a major news organization?

The winds of change blow yet again...

Well, they are supposed to be nonprofit, so that will definitly minimize their ad ventures.

Digmen1

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3868974 posted 9:46 pm on Mar 13, 2009 (gmt 0)

What about asking for donations ? Wikepedia asked for 6 million and got it.

codeblue

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3868974 posted 9:51 pm on Mar 13, 2009 (gmt 0)

Pretty sure FF lost its nonproofit status a couple years ago as their google revenue went into the millions.

gibbergibber

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3868974 posted 10:01 pm on Mar 13, 2009 (gmt 0)

"Let's not forget Safari. Safari 3.0 is incredibly fast. It's a huge success, by most accounts,"

Actually Safari isn't a browser in itself, it's Apple's packaging of the open source webkit browser.

This is where it gets interesting:

Google uses Webkit in the Chrome browser

Apple uses Webkit in the Safari browser

Nokia uses Webkit in its S60 smartphone browser, and is soon going to use it in its non-smart phone browser too.

Samsung uses Webkit in its S60 smartphone browser.

Webkit is pretty soon going to be the heart of most mobile devices, and it is also making its way onto computers through Chrome and Safari.

dan404

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3868974 posted 10:22 pm on Mar 13, 2009 (gmt 0)

Chrome will be huge when it hits the mobile market, it really doesn't belong on a pc IMO.

Firefox on the other hand has garnered a massive and growing user base and it's been shown most peeps don't switch browsers unless they have a real good reason to.

Yahoo! already has a similar although tiny in comparison to Google with Mozilla. You have to download FF through a Yahoo! link though.
It would make total sense for Google to hold on to this agreement past 2011, if not Mozilla is sure not to worry about another taker.

StoutFiles

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3868974 posted 6:31 am on Mar 14, 2009 (gmt 0)

If I were Mozilla I would just sell to the highest bidder. With Google promoting Chrome, Apple promotign Safari, and Windows promoting IE, Mozilla will fade to Opera status if they don't find a major player.

albo

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3868974 posted 7:04 pm on Mar 14, 2009 (gmt 0)

Not forgetting Safari, but for the fact that Go Ogle has its hands in Apple's pocket, too. Default search engine in Safari. (In fact, ONLY, unless one slaps in a copy of something like Yahoo! Inquisitor.)

londrum

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3868974 posted 8:16 pm on Mar 14, 2009 (gmt 0)

mozilla should start plugging the fact that their software isn't tied to anything. google seems to be getting more and more in our face, they have so many fingers in pies that they are getting data on us from all sorts of different sources. (not that i'm bothered.)
but mozilla could go the other way. plug the fact its free from all that stuff. no ads, no data collection, no nothing. google couldn't follow them down that path.

poppyrich

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3868974 posted 1:37 am on Mar 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

google seems to be getting more and more in our face

I don't know about you, but Google owns me.

wildbest

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3868974 posted 7:19 am on Mar 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

If I were Mozilla I would just sell to the highest bidder. With Google promoting Chrome, Apple promotign Safari, and Windows promoting IE, Mozilla will fade to Opera status if they don't find a major player.

I agree.

Years ago Google asked for greater share of the decision making process about Linux future. They were refused.

Years ago Google asked for greater share of the decision making process about FF future. They were refused.

So, they have started Chrome project and I've no doubt that OS is on the map as well.

idolw

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3868974 posted 11:13 am on Mar 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

I moved from FF to Chrome 2 or 3 months ago and will probably stay that way. With broadband everywhere I do not see speed difference but I am not a geek, too.
I can say the Omnibox is great, really. I thought it was making me nervous at first but now this is just great. Apart from omnibox there is really no difference for a regular user who does not use a million plugins.
Mozilla should get used to a thought they'll be a 10-20% player in the future and just get used to it.

anand84

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3868974 posted 1:32 pm on Mar 16, 2009 (gmt 0)

eBay should probably buy Mozilla..Firstly, most of their acquisitions dont make sense anyway. And secondly, eBay could promote their products on Firefox..How about every new tab opened show up the latest products on offer from eBay..!

idolw

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3868974 posted 2:14 pm on Mar 16, 2009 (gmt 0)

yeah, that would make firefox a 0.10-0.20% player :))))

grelmar

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3868974 posted 3:35 pm on Mar 16, 2009 (gmt 0)

I actually think Mozilla might do well to follow the example set by F-Secure in the anti-virus market.

F-Secure has secured partner deals with a great many ISPs, wherein the ISP distributes a "re-branded" version of their anti virus product. ISP X, let's call it "Megalomaniac Broadbadnd" offers free virus protection with their service, a sopftware package called "Megalomaniac Secure." All the logos and branding reflect Megalomaniac Broadband, but the software is actually F-Secure.

As an anti-virus and security product creator, F-Secure has leveraged this into an incredible level of market penetration and revenue.

Mozilla could easily do this with FireFox. Sign deals with various ISPs to distribute a branded browser that is, really, nothing more than a re-skinned FireFox.

There is money to be made in that sort of model, and the ISP/Browser tie-in seems like a natural fit to me.

It's win-win. Mozilla gets cash, and the ISPs get end users with a browser less vulnerable to malware, and thereby causing less load and grief on their network.

nahdoic

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3868974 posted 5:59 pm on Mar 16, 2009 (gmt 0)

Firefox doesn't seem to be losing any ground, rather it is continuing to grow steadily. (Source [gs.statcounter.com].)

Chrome is also growing, but not as fast as firefox.

The real loser at the moment is IE.

Firefox has fought against the microsoft monopoly and made huge inroads, I don't think the threat of Google is as big as the threat was and still is from microsoft.

If google do pull their funding, well then Mozilla's Mitchell Baker answers this with, "We have been offered a blank check to replace Google." So there is potential there for Mozilla to make even more money without Google.

The ecosystem firefox has built up around its plugin system will be very hard for google to reproduce and compete against.

I personally think we are going to see far greater firefox usage in the future. In Germany for example firefox usage has already overtaken IE. (Source [gs.statcounter.com].) I can definitely see this happening in the USA, but if it doesn't I would say the road block will be caused by microsoft not Google.

Lord Majestic

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3868974 posted 6:28 pm on Mar 16, 2009 (gmt 0)

Google won't lose that important spot, but they will renegotiate the deal for smaller fees probably.

Hugene

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3868974 posted 9:06 pm on Mar 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

I don't think G will end the relationship: even with Chrome out there, why should they shoot in the leg of the main open source product that is biting MS in the ass? That would be illogical. If anything, they will push both Chrome and Firefox, as IE is still the main player. And people at G have long memories: they'll never forget what happened to Netscape, they won't let Firefox go down that way.

Firefox is bringing tons of traffic to G, and that's for chump-change in the scale of things.

I think this statement is more Firefox trying to remind G that, Chrome or not, G needs Firefox. Otherwise, IE will rule again and all of a sudden G Docs and Gmail will be very very very slow to load, I wonder why.

[edited by: Hugene at 9:07 pm (utc) on Mar. 17, 2009]

nealrodriguez

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3868974 posted 2:31 pm on Mar 18, 2009 (gmt 0)

i think it would be a dumb move on google's part to let firefox go; with all the plug ins and scripts designed for firefox they're brand, imho, will always be more powerful than chrome's. firefox should find a way to leverage google to increase market share to over 30% by dumbing it down for ie users who probably just use it because they don't know of any other options. finding where ie users talk online and trying to get them to join the mozilla community may work; they should get on their toes and start to pound forums and the blogosphere, and everywhere else they can reach people that are asking questions on ie.

bkeep

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3868974 posted 4:37 am on Mar 19, 2009 (gmt 0)

Don't forget, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. I would be willing to think that is Google's stance at the moment.

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