And I thought that by now I had seen (read) it all .........
anarchy is an option that should be discussed.
One of the reasons I use WebmasterWorld is that it is nearly completely free of the absolute rubbish that clogs up nearly all other webmaster forums.
Makes for higher quality posts, more on-topic discussion within threads, and less scrolling to read what is being discussed. Long may it stay that way.
If people want it, then create a new domain webmasterworldanarchy.com which looks like this one completely but the links between them are nofollowed in both directions. If it looks as if it is part of this forum, i.e. in the index, then those people will stay in droves. :^)
Frankly, the Supporters forum donation isn't a fee. I am happy to pay to keep the site running as long as I can afford it.
Ads don't worry me. An ad-free social media site is a rare exception today and I don't avoid any site on account of its ads.
There are plenty of sites where you can mention your site to discuss a problem and they create a big problem for newbies who can't tell whether the advice is good or bad.
Hey - look - reason is - I actually offered to give away some software to anyone who wanted it - I noticed a post where someone was looking for some software which did a certain job - im a programmer, and I had that software written by myself. I offered to give it away and my post was deleted.
Now thats just plain stupid - I mean - totally selfish.
Upshot is - I couldnt do a guy a favour - now answer me this - what the hell kind of a messed up forum bans people from giving members some free software?
A sad forum and a pathetic forum in my view.
or perhaps a forum that isn't in the business of being a software repository.
|anarchy is an option that should be discussed. |
LOL... sorry.. almost spilled my coffee on that one.
By all means lets put that one on the table.
|what the hell kind of a messed up forum bans people from giving members some free software? |
Because it's self-promotion. Software is never free. Not in the strictest sense of the word it's not. There is always a benefit to the author, even it's just promotion of the brand.
The option to use StickyMail to send your free software offer was available, but apparently ignored.
To keep the signal-to-noise ratio high, WebmasterWorld bills itself as a place to talk about doing business, and not a place to actually do business. And the rules, although you don't agree with them, accomplish this goal fairly well.
|Upshot is - I couldnt do a guy a favour - now answer me this - what the hell kind of a messed up forum bans people from giving members some free software? |
Are you suggesting that you are a programmer and you didn't think to send the guy a private message with your offering?
There is a difference between not allowing public offerings for software and a private message offering software.
I couldnt have proved a point more could I - what a load of nit picking about a freebie I offered a guy (there was no branding and also it wouldnt make WebmasterWorld a software repository - thats a childish joke).
Look at the state of this thread about a chunk of programming being offered for nowt.
Anyone would think mass murder had taken place - nooooooo - its a bit of code, thats all.
Software Repository.....Branding.......Doing Business - LOL - put it in perspective - here I will help you.
Member A wants to give something away to member B (and anyone else who wants it) a bit of software because member B posted that he/she was looking for some.
Now - thats not too hard for you is it?
Not too hard for me. I'm wondering why it's so hard for you though.
maybe you wonder too much
the problem is your software might be great and fit the users needs perfectly, but what if it was someone else who offered the free code. the same code that turns out to be malicious?
|No sigs |
Makes for higher quality posts, more on-topic discussion within threads, and less scrolling to read what is being discussed. Long may it stay that way.
+1 for that, I agree
|Now - thats not too hard for you is it? |
It is not too hard and actually it is fair to discuss it now. These Feedback Days are to hear what members really think of WebmasterWorld and how it could be improved. The rules Jim is talking about have been working well the last ten years. But that is no reason that they will work well for the next ten years and don't need to be changed.
The Internet evolves. The way people use WebmasterWorld evolves and maybe we should agree on a system where members can help each other more directly. Either by commercial offers or by allowing to inform people of existing software.
With such a move WebmasterWorld may loose some old members but get new members. Just the fact that you are willing to discuss this issue here in this thread shows that you are willing to participate to make a better site, and may become a valuable member in the future.
Just because someone thinks they have the latest and greatest answer and wants to provide it to all does not mean they actually have created a good product. There is no way for anyone to know the quality of their code without implementing it and using it over time.
No one here should take the responsibility for anyone providing either malicious code or poorly written code through this site.
I'm not making a comment on your abilities, I just think you should look at it from another point of view.
I generally agree with the two posts above from Lammert and Travelin.
Travelin - I would however at this stage like to point out that it is the very purpose of this section to facilitate YOU and Admins and Brett I assume - to "LOOK AT IT FROM ANOTHER POINT OF VIEW" - not just me...................
the way the wind is blowing in this feedback forum, it looks like we WILL be able to drop links in the future -- but we'll have to pay for the privilage.
because there's not much point having a paid classifieds, press release and website review section if you start letting people drop links in other parts of the site.
that's not a lot different to paid links. we can plug our stuff if we pay some money.
Here are some solutions being discussed.
Buy, Sell, Trade? [webmasterworld.com]
What if We Started a Classifieds Section? [webmasterworld.com]
|I actually offered to give away some software to anyone who wanted it - I noticed a post where someone was looking for some software which did a certain job - im a programmer, and I had that software written by myself. I offered to give it away and my post was deleted. |
Here's a simple way to handle the solution: Directly sticky the member and the moderator that you have a free solution with that information and ask permission of the mod to make it public.
If it's a good solution, and the member or the mod like it, they can make it public and you'll get credit without making it look like you're self promoting.
That's the difference from being a spammy looking site with everyone posting every little link to every piece of junk on the planet are the real referrals from trusted members that find and test things to verify suitability to the situation, they carry more weight.
Links in the forums, at the end of the day, are at the discretion of each mod and had you posted it in my forum and I felt the link is truly high quality worth remaining, I might have left if intact.
Bottom line, it depends on the forum, forum charter, and the discretion of the mod.
<putting on hat of a USER>
I certainly agree with MrFewkes' point of view in this case. User A has a need, person B has a fix. A PM would allow user B to offer his fix to user A. But there may also be users C, D, E, etc. who also have the same need. In this case, PM between B & A doesn't very well serve the needs of the other users.
However, let's say users F, G, H, etc. also think that their software is the end-all-be-all to fix the problem (but their opinions are highly inflated). They all post links to their software. There are also hackers I, J, K who have malware or viruses or adware built in to the software. They also post links to their software. Other users come and see many links to software that supposedly fixes their problem. They download them. Their computers are infected. They get upset that WebmasterWorld would allow postings to such stuff. Again, the situation doesn't meet the needs of the users.
(And if I were user A, I probably wouldn't want 50 people PMing me about their software. One or two, if they worked, but after that I would be annoyed.)
In other words, the current rules cause problems in one scenario, but work in another scenario.
<putting on hat of MODERATOR>
The overall usefulness for ALL WebmasterWorld users has to be considered when making and enforcing the rules. As has been pointed out, the Internet is constantly evolving, and WebmasterWorld also needs to periodically change, which is why Feedback Days is being run right now.
However, just because one person wants a change does not mean that change would be good for the entire community. And I'm not singling out MrFewkes or any one user, nor am I dismissing his or anyone else's ideas.
<wearing BOTH user and moderator hats>
The idea here is to come up with ideas that can benefit the community as a whole.
One current option that has always been available, but probably not as actively promoted as it could be, is that you can ALWAYS PM the moderator of the forum and ask for permission to post a link.
"Links in the forums, at the end of the day, are at the discretion of each mod and had you posted it in my forum and I felt the link is truly high quality worth remaining, I might have left if intact. "
Hi - just to clarify - not being picky or anything - but I had envisaged people asking for the software in a PM to me (I posted NO LINKS). I would probably have PM'd them a link back to the download if they wanted it.
Just to repeat - not being funny but I didnt even post any links. Thats how bad the moderation was.
|let's say users F, G, H, etc. also think that their software is the end-all-be-all to fix the problem |
... or let's say that User A who asks for software is a buddy of User B who supplies the software - or the same person (I only have to restart my router to get a new IP).
I do like the idea put forward on other threads about setting up whitelists. Perhaps there could be a tools / widgets whitelist where admins, mods and senior members have approved a resource, maybe a review fee levied to fund the time spent compiling the whitelist.
|but I had envisaged people asking for the software in a PM to me (I posted NO LINKS). |
Did you ask people to sticky you?
That's not allowed in any situation.
If you post that there are some good solutions out there with a brief description of the solution, then the member, if interested, may sticky you.
However, simply ask the mod as I mentioned before or sticky the original poster, if they like what you've got they'll share it.
Of course it's possible you just ran into a mod that hadn't had his first cup of coffee yet ;)
The problem as I see it as a user of this site and a mod of other sites is that once a thread becomes a place where software is linked as a solution then people with competing software start bringing their links to the table as well.
So while user A has a problem and user B has a solution that is software and posts it how long until competitors of user B start the gorilla marketing campaign of "organically" talking down user B's software while talking up their competing product.
A couple sock accounts later and you don't have a solution you have a viral advertising campaign.
This is the problem with this forum.
Fanboys are supported and adored, and anyone with discontent is hushed up. That's why I don't come here anymore. I mean, I check it once in a while if I have a specific question that is archived, but I can't expect not to be trolled.
Be ingenious. Let thread authors have more freedom in their own threads. You don't need to follow the same mechanisms as other forums in every way.
I added a whole bunch of features to my forum to permit a more free-flowing system by letting people semi-moderate their own threads by hiding/unhiding posts, and letting users have ignore lists.
If you actually create such mechanisms, you won't have to have such strict moderation.
The author of this thread posted free software, and absolutely rightly as he stated, he is being bashed for it with ridiculous suggestions of turning this place into a software repository or trying to promote his own software.
And of course, dissension. IMO there should be no censorship on dissension towards both this site and anything or anyone else. Just let users ignore trolls and/or keep their posts muted.
The primary reason I left here, in all honesty, is that when I posted questions, gripes, or anything else, exactly like the author of this thread, I was attacked by all these socially-inept fanboys, just as he is being attacked in this thread.
The permitting of trolling (in response to a thread asking a question, a troll says "why do you want to do that when there's such a better way to do it... yadda yadda...") while censoring flat out judgments (like "you're trolling, please go away") makes this place almost entirely useless save a repository of archived information.
Of course, you can ask a question and try to not offend the fanboys, but only in desperation because I'd rather search Google for a week than come in here and try to keep calm while some insecure self-titled SEO GRANDMASTER dilutes my thread with socially molded tantrums.
And of course, this is just a suggestion. If you want to hear the technical nature of the actual implementations of what I am suggesting to help ease the censorship, I may do that, but am not really convinced you guys want to hear what you don't want to hear (hence, real criticism)
I mean, look at this moderator above my post - he says "asking people to sticky you is not allowed in any situation"
That's ludicrous. Beyond ludicrous. Sure, you can find ways in which this can be used in problematic manners, but look at his even more ridiculous suggestion:
"If you post that there are some good solutions out there with a brief description of the solution, then the member, if interested, may sticky you. "
I have to talk around helping this guy... I have to wink? "Uh hey... I 'know' of a good solution... if you know what I mean..."
Man, a moderator responding in such a ridiculous and defensive manner explains quite clearly why this place is a cesspool of fanboys. He's a fanboy himself! He actually defends the possibility of poor moderation as not the fault of the moderator, but the coffee!
lol. He's a moderator? Really?
Fanboys are supported and adored, and anyone with discontent is hushed up
As a voice that usually is considered as "discontent" as you described it I have to say I am never hushed, the only time I have been quieted is when my posts degraded into attacks and became irrelevant to the topic of the thread. I have never been hushed up and you can check my posts. I am no fanboy.
I am loyal to this site though as in my early years this site saved my skin with amazing advise. I just try to return the favor now.
|system by letting people semi-moderate their own threads by hiding/unhiding posts |
I have seen similar solutions and they are not bad. The downside is this mechanism can be used as a way of censoring unpopular speech. Of course there are up and down sides to every solution.
I mean, look at this moderator above my post - he says ....
He is just quoting and enforcing the TOS of this site. I don't see why you take it out on him. If you don't like the TOS that is fine, but dissing the guy enforcing them isn't productive.
|He's a moderator? Really? |
Yes he is enforcing and quoting the terms of the site, really what more do you want from a mod?
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