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Customer claims non receipt
jrockfl




msg:4492765
 7:15 pm on Sep 8, 2012 (gmt 0)

I have a customer claiming non receipt of $268 order.
I sent it priority mail and the tracking details shows it was delivered.
There was no insurance or signature required.

If she chargesback, would I win this?

 

Leosghost




msg:4492781
 7:58 pm on Sep 8, 2012 (gmt 0)

Probably not..always insure and require sig..for the little extra cost per shipment it protects you against eating* ones like this customer..

* the French phrase for this more "colourful", and not for here ..:)..but it involves a painful experience..

dpd1




msg:4492783
 8:25 pm on Sep 8, 2012 (gmt 0)

Have you called the local PO on her end and talked to them about it? It could have been dropped at the wrong address. They could possible find it, if it was.

jrockfl




msg:4492791
 8:33 pm on Sep 8, 2012 (gmt 0)

@dpd1

She contacted me 2 weeks after it was delivered. No, I did not contact her local post office since so much time had passed.

dpd1




msg:4493010
 7:27 pm on Sep 9, 2012 (gmt 0)

If she received a shipping notification, maybe ask her why she waited two weeks to tell you, when she knew it was coming and never showed up.

Others here have posted good ideas in the past. Like calling their bluff and telling them you'll have to get a postal inspector or cop to come to their house and take a report for it being stolen. Things like that.

jwolthuis




msg:4493216
 12:25 pm on Sep 10, 2012 (gmt 0)

Depending on what payment method she used, I think $250 is often the dividing line where Signature Confirmation is required in order to prove delivery. Below that threshold, Delivery Confirmation is enough.

rjwmotor




msg:4493257
 1:54 pm on Sep 10, 2012 (gmt 0)

Depending on what payment method she used, I think $250 is often the dividing line where Signature Confirmation is required in order to prove delivery. Below that threshold, Delivery Confirmation is enough.


I wish this was true. I've had customers initiate chargebacks for $100 and win when all I had was delivery confirmation. I currently have one being processed for $141 that simply had delivery confirmation that I expect to lose.

If the customer doesn't sign for it they arque that it wasn't delivered or stolen from where it was left. Depending on where an item is shipping or if it is an apartment, we will use signature confirmation occasionally just to cover ourselves.

In the end, unfortunately, it's the cost of doing business.

jrockfl




msg:4493276
 2:23 pm on Sep 10, 2012 (gmt 0)

@rjwmotor
Thank you, this was the type of response I was looking for.
We use endicia to ship out our packages, and we will start insuring orders over $100.

jwolthuis




msg:4493356
 4:22 pm on Sep 10, 2012 (gmt 0)

I've had customers initiate chargebacks for $100 and win

It depends on your payment processor and payment method.

If the customer uses PayPal, Section 11.4 of their User Agreement says Signature Confirmation is only required for shipments of $250 or more.

Various credit cards have different rules. I believe AmEx refunds the customer if you look at them wrong, so YMMV.

Leosghost




msg:4493381
 4:44 pm on Sep 10, 2012 (gmt 0)

Thank you, this was the type of response I was looking for.
And which I gave you, 43 minutes after your OP :)
ssgumby




msg:4493395
 5:21 pm on Sep 10, 2012 (gmt 0)

Ive mentioned this before, but ive lost a chargeback before even with a signature ups delivery. All they did was claim it wasnt their sig. UPS investigated, provided us a signture on file with the local agency for their deed on the house, the sig matched the sig for our product but we still lost, seems all someone has to do is say "eh, wasnt me". My specific instance was a mess, because she orders from us 5 times with total $$ in excess of $1600, after the 5th order is when she decided to chargeback. Been like 3 years ago and still ticks me off!

not2easy




msg:4493410
 6:41 pm on Sep 10, 2012 (gmt 0)

Although many customers were not thrilled, Signature Confirmation was the only way I ever shipped after being stiffed via Paypal for close to $1500 "never ordered" custom made products. I also dropped Paypal and went to VeriSign until Paypal bought that...Then moved to Authorize.net. I never lost a chargeback with Signature Confirmation. It is money well spent.

jrockfl




msg:4493506
 9:47 pm on Sep 10, 2012 (gmt 0)

@Leosghost Thank you :)
I just meant someone who was actually int the situation and won or lost.

@ssgumby
I know what you mean, I had a chargeback where the shipping address matched the billing address. Initially, I won it but then it was reversed because the customer claimed it was fraud.

@not2easy
I use Authorize.net too but they are just the gateway. It would be up to the merchant account.

Going forward, we will use endicia and start insuring some of the packages. That way, I can make the customer happy and just resend it. I always dread those phone calls.

But it seems like with my customers, if it is not in their hand they expect you to resend it. They need to look around their house, check outside, neighbors etc.

Leosghost




msg:4493509
 9:58 pm on Sep 10, 2012 (gmt 0)

Sometimes with customers, all they need to do is look in their hand..and then say..

" Am I honest or am I going to try and scam the merchant out of being paid for what I'm holding ?"..

I've never sent uninsured and unsigned..because after being in business for over 35 years in various ways shapes and forms..

I believe waaaaaay too many people make the wrong reply when they ask themselves that question, they think that merchants on or off line, are all rich , and that they think that they are somehow "stickin' it to tha man" when they chargeback for things that they actually have in their hands..

incrediBILL




msg:4493513
 10:14 pm on Sep 10, 2012 (gmt 0)

It's quite easy to look up each delivery address on Google Maps and see where the delivery address is located using street view. Trivial to install a link in the admin page of your ecommerce site to make looking it up a single click.

If it's a multi-unit dwelling, signature should be required.

If it's an empty lot, abandoned or boarded up building, consider canceling the order.

re: the chargeback, I'd file a report with the post office and the police as this could be a serial offender stealing stuff just because the system allows it. If the package was just left at the front door someone obviously could've stolen it, but I've seen people claim they didn't get a package that was signed for by someone else at that address, their secretary no less, and managed to do a chargeback.

From a recipient's point of view:

I was staying in a NY hotel attending a conference at Javitz center and had a package shipped overnight from CA. The front desk rang and said it had arrived. However, the package had been stolen by an employee from the back room in the mere 10 minutes it took us to finish getting ready and go downstairs in the elevator. Technically it was delivered, but as a customer, it was NOT delivered to me! In this case the hotel ate the expense of the product including shipping. Best yet, whoever obviously took the package from the delivery service signed a false name!

<edit>

Another way to catch crooks scamming online merchants is if the merchandise had a serial number, report it as STOLEN to the cops and the manufacturer as well. Check back later to see if anyone registered the thing to get the full product warranty. In the event of electronics that automatically register they get busted real quick.

J_RaD




msg:4493532
 11:48 pm on Sep 10, 2012 (gmt 0)


If it's an empty lot, abandoned or boarded up building, consider canceling the order.


I wouldn't jump on that so quick, i've shipped some stuff to some pretty dicey looking places without issue.

LifeinAsia




msg:4493535
 11:53 pm on Sep 10, 2012 (gmt 0)

I believe AmEx refunds the customer if you look at them wrong, so YMMV.

They'll refund the customer even if you look at them right. Their motto is "The merchant is always wrong."

As a customer, I love AMEX because of that. As a merchant, I no longer accept AMEX.

jrockfl




msg:4493537
 11:58 pm on Sep 10, 2012 (gmt 0)

@LifeInAsia lol that was good.

J_RaD




msg:4493564
 12:54 am on Sep 11, 2012 (gmt 0)

oh yea you have no hope with AMEX no amount of proof will win a charge back with them.


As a merchant, I no longer accept AMEX


Did it become such a problem that you had to take such measures?

LifeinAsia




msg:4493573
 1:12 am on Sep 11, 2012 (gmt 0)

Did it become such a problem that you had to take such measures?

Decided to take such measures before it became such a problem. Had one charge back and AMEX basically refused to accept our documentation. Heard similar stories from other merchants, so removed AMEX as a payment option on the public site. Kept the account active for a couple more years for a few good customers who only wanted to pay with AMEX.

incrediBILL




msg:4493583
 2:06 am on Sep 11, 2012 (gmt 0)

I wouldn't jump on that so quick, i've shipped some stuff to some pretty dicey looking places without issue.


Depends on the price. Wouldn't ship a laptop or a camera there. Would probably ship a box of sticky notes or bag knee high socks.

J_RaD




msg:4493585
 2:24 am on Sep 11, 2012 (gmt 0)

I've shipped a few computers to some shrimp dock looking places in Louisiana with a good record.

Same with some low price stuff to some dirt road areas.

I just contact them and make sure its legit, then ship with all of the above requirements. (if it looks really scary) its business we gota take a risk, customers come 1st.

dpd1




msg:4493595
 3:01 am on Sep 11, 2012 (gmt 0)

I believe waaaaaay too many people make the wrong reply when they ask themselves that question, they think that merchants on or off line, are all rich , and that they think that they are somehow "stickin' it to tha man" when they chargeback for things that they actually have in their hands


This is very true. And unfortunately, we now have a government that seems more than happy to back them up on that attitude. But that's a whole other can of political worms.

Semi related... I had my main bank card turned off over the weekend. Two orders did not go through, one of which was significant and with a major supplier of materials for me. I called the bank and was greeted by the usual 'system' support, which made me put in more personal "verification" info that I had ever had to do in my life. I was waiting for them to ask me to confirm where I had moles on my body. Then after I confirmed I HAD made the purchases, the system refused to connect me with a person, and just hung up. I had to call back and go through the whole thing all over, then finally I got a real person. He once again made me go through about 10 ID questions, then said "everything is fine" and was ready to hang up. I was like... UH, so what about my purchases, and why did this happen in the first place? Support guy says: "The one vender you purchased something from over the weekend is flagged as being suspicious". The charge in question was for a lousy $73. They shut down my card for that, with no legit explanation. So after the call, I'm thinking to myself... How do these people charge all this stuff with stolen cards and everything, when they put me through an inquisition over a legit $73 dollar charge? Makes no sense at all.

J_RaD




msg:4493610
 4:56 am on Sep 11, 2012 (gmt 0)

this is very true of any business, to the normal person business = loaded.

even though they might just be breaking even paying the bills... they still are "rich"

Lots of business people are busting ...... just to keep the doors open.

the longer you work for yourself the more you beat to a diff drum.

jwolthuis




msg:4493827
 3:17 pm on Sep 11, 2012 (gmt 0)

Decided to take such measures before it became such a problem.


+1, We did the same. And I've never run across an AmEx cardholder that didn't have multiple backup Visa's, so any potential fallout from our decision to nix AmEx has been a non-issue.

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