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Strange Chargeback (Don't assume it's the buyer)
dpd1




msg:4476530
 8:48 pm on Jul 17, 2012 (gmt 0)

Had somebody buy something from me last month. The guy had a couple questions, so he emailed me a couple times after he got it. But he said he really liked it and would probably be back to buy something else.

So 4 days ago I get a charge-back notice from PayPal on his purchase, claiming the card people say: "unauthorized use". I was of course amazed. I sent them the shipping proof and also a copy of his email saying he liked it, showing the same address. I contacted him and just basically said... 'what's up with this?' I wasn't rude or anything. His wife emailed back and apologized, saying they didn't know anything about it. She called their bank and the bank said that they had reversed it, because they had some questionable purchases that same weekend. Then they told her that the best thing to do was just let the charge-back process run it's course.

Seriously? So they don't contact the customer or anything, and just decide on their own to reverse a purchase? Then won't even un-do it when the person tells them it's legit. And what would happen if I hadn't contacted the buyer or sent them good enough proof? They just take the money back? Pretty sure there's a name for that. It's called... stealing. Unbelievable.

 

oliondor




msg:4476532
 9:13 pm on Jul 17, 2012 (gmt 0)

Paypal chargeback also makes me crazy: there is no way to fight and so many people use it as a way to get free stuff.

I check online and it really seems that there is no solution, just accept to be cheated, incredible !

jwolthuis




msg:4476548
 10:14 pm on Jul 17, 2012 (gmt 0)

just accept to be cheated


PayPal and the credit card companies are not the end-all final arbitrator. This man and his wife possess your property. Send them a PayPal Request for Money; if they pay it, you can believe their story, and the issue is closed.

It's also possible that they are making up a story. If they don't pay the Request for Money, tell them you'll contact a detective at their hometown police station, giving him their home address and physical description of the widget; please listen for a knock on the front door. If that doesn't work, you'll file with Small Claims Court.

timwilliams




msg:4476569
 11:30 pm on Jul 17, 2012 (gmt 0)

I'm amazed almost on a weekly basis at the negligent manner in which the credit card companies and banks throw around the chargeback. I heard from a customer not too long ago who was having trouble with a purchase, their first call was to their bank who told the customer "to wait till the charge showed up on their bill and dispute it". We don't take chargebacks lightly, we don't consider any chargebacks to be legitimate and to that end when we get a chargeback we go after the buyer. First we add a standard fee on top of the customer's original amount due and send them the bill. When they do not pay we take them to small claims court, in our state which is usually not the customer's state. When they do not show up we get a default judgment and we send them to collections. Now I wonder if that helpful, advice giving, person at the customer's bank also consulted them on the consequences of following such advice. I wonder how long it's going to be before one of these banks get sued for giving out such great advice to their customers...

dpd1




msg:4476585
 12:36 am on Jul 18, 2012 (gmt 0)

It's also possible that they are making up a story. If they don't pay the Request for Money, tell them you'll contact a detective at their hometown police station, giving him their home address and physical description of the widget; please listen for a knock on the front door. If that doesn't work, you'll file with Small Claims Court


I'm a pretty good judge of BS. I'm about 95% they're telling the truth. It appears that the bank just decided that their card had been stolen or something, so they did a blanket hold on everything they bought that weekend, with no contact with their customer. But the part that amazes me the most, is that even after the customer contacts them, they won't undo the hold. They just want you to wait until it plays out through the process. But if it does turn out that they're BSing me, I would do all that stuff. But I don't think I'll have to. I was just throwing this out there, because I know a lot of people would automatically assume the buyer was pulling something. But sometimes they're getting jacked around by the card people as well.

jwolthuis




msg:4476618
 3:38 am on Jul 18, 2012 (gmt 0)

But sometimes they're getting jacked around by the card people as well.

You haven't spoken to the bank. Everything you've related to us is via the customer. And they still have their charge cards, free to use them? (They didn't know anything about this, right? The bank never contacted them?)

The simple fact that they have no idea what could be wrong, and continue to use their cards like nothing ever happened... nope! Sorry, this doesn't pass the smell test.

If the bank had also revoked their cards, and mailed new ones, maybe I'd believe the story.

HRoth




msg:4476772
 3:47 pm on Jul 18, 2012 (gmt 0)

Well, that happened to me re the card being stopped by the provider and them not informing me until I went to use it. This meant that pending transactions on the card would end up being chargebakcs, so I had to notify places I'd bought from and give them a different card. This was a Paypal Mastercard. Paypal didn't send me an email, put a notice on my account, nothing. I found out because it was declined and called to see what was up. They said Mastercard canceled my card because of bogus activity. Notice: it was "Mastercard's fault." Whatever.

That said, I have not found Paypal to be a source of bogus chargebacks. In fact, I almost posted here recently because I won a chargeback through them where the customer I guess must have mixed me up with another vendor. I rarely get chargebacks, no evil eye, but in the past three weeks I've had two. Looks like I will win this second one, also through Paypal, as well. It too is claiming an unauthorized use of the card, but what happaned was the customer did not have enough in the Paypal account for the purchase and so Paypal took the remainder from her account. The customer saw it as two payments to me and did a chargeback with her bank. Paypal said all I have to do is show proof of delivery, which I have.

These are the only two chargebacks I have ever won. But yes, sometimes it is not the buyer.

jwolthuis




msg:4476969
 3:01 am on Jul 19, 2012 (gmt 0)

Well, that happened to me re the card being stopped by the provider and them not informing me until I went to use it.

In the OP's case, he lost money due to "questionable purchases that same weekend".

But his customer was never informed of any stoppage. They continue to use the card today, as though nothing happened.

Am I the only one that thinks this is suspicious?

piatkow




msg:4477029
 7:47 am on Jul 19, 2012 (gmt 0)


because they had some questionable purchases that same weekend.

Happened to me, the card company did inform me - the letter arrived after I had left home to take my mother to the restaurant where the card was refused. Luckily no other transactions occurred or were pending in the interim.

dpd1




msg:4477032
 7:57 am on Jul 19, 2012 (gmt 0)

I don't know all the details. Like I said, I'm just going on my gut, and I think they're basically telling the truth. Or at least, they didn't purposely initiate a charge-back to screw me. If it doesn't get released, then we'll have a different situation. But I HAVE had people blatantly try to mess with me, and honestly, it's usually not hard to see when they are. My point was just that, I think it's a bad idea to dive right into the attitude where you assume they're trying to rip you off.

HRoth




msg:4477800
 12:52 pm on Jul 21, 2012 (gmt 0)

So do I. It's not productive and it just makes work a PIA.

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