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How do you win dishonest credit card chargebacks from genuine cardhold
Angrymerchant




msg:4445077
 8:38 am on Apr 25, 2012 (gmt 0)

I work for an ecommerce site that handles credit card payments through world pay.

We often have chargebacks from the genuine card holders who receive the product they ordered then file a chargeback saying they never received it. Even when I provide supporting documentation such as confirmation of delivery signed by the customer from DHL, FEDEX etc we lose the chargeback.

Iíve spent a lot of time on the phone to Worldpay trying to work out how to win these chargebacks but so far, there is no way I know of to win.

According to world pay if the payment is made by the genuine card holder who files a chargeback claiming not to have received the product they ordered, we should provide proof of delivery. Apart from this, there is nothing else we can do.

How does everyone else deal with this problem?

Is there a way to win this kind of chargeback?

How do you avoid losing money every time a genuine card holder decides to rip you off after you have delivered their order to them?

 

enigma1




msg:4445116
 9:33 am on Apr 25, 2012 (gmt 0)

we should provide proof of delivery

Did you provide proof of delivery and wasn't accepted?

I would think the delivery address they specify matches what's on their account. So if you sent it to that address there shouldn't be a problem on your end, the reason worldpay asks for proof of delivery when these problems occur.

If there are arguments about the signatures or perhaps whether or not the right person signed for the package etc, one way I think of is to force registered delivery for new customers in your checkout page when you display the shipping options. The drawback is the order totals will be higher but perhaps is preferable over the time/money waste.

jwolthuis




msg:4445290
 1:59 pm on Apr 25, 2012 (gmt 0)

Welcome to WebmasterWorld!

I thought WorldPay was simply a gateway? Doesn't the chargeback request go to each credit card company; Visa, MasterCard, AmEx, etc? I'm not sure how WorldPay enters into it.

subuno




msg:4445515
 6:32 pm on Apr 25, 2012 (gmt 0)

Angrymerchant, you said that you show the delivery confirmation and signature and that Worldpay says that the best thing to do is to provider confirmation, but you still lose the dispute?

Jwolthuis, the chargeback request go from the issuing bank to the acquiring bank. The credit card companies facilitate the communication between issuers and acquirers. They don't get involved in the chargeback process. AmEx is slightly diff because they are everything in the payment cycle.

jwolthuis




msg:4445546
 7:08 pm on Apr 25, 2012 (gmt 0)

the chargeback request go from the issuing bank to the acquiring bank


Lots of new members on this thread! Welcome, also!

How does Worldpay enter into it? Are they the issuing bank or the acquiring bank in this example?

subuno




msg:4445680
 10:32 pm on Apr 25, 2012 (gmt 0)

Worldpay would be on the acquiring/processing side. The issuing banks are ones that issue credit cards to the customers.

jrockfl




msg:4445688
 11:02 pm on Apr 25, 2012 (gmt 0)

@Angrymerchant is it being shipped to their billing address or a different address?

I have not had a chargeback for non receipt yet.
Mine have been fraudulent or a teenager using their parents card and the parent doesn't recognize it. This one I win since the billing and shipping are the same.

Planet13




msg:4447213
 3:27 pm on Apr 29, 2012 (gmt 0)

We use worldpay (formerly RBS, and before that, LYNK).

I've only had this happen once or twice.

After worldpay said that my proof of delivery was insufficient to reverse the chargeback, I wrote them an email saying that I was an honest person and, more importantly than the money, I believed in integrity, and that if they couldn't reverse the chargeback, I would have to find a different credit card processor.

They reversed the chargeback pretty quickly after receiving my email.

This only works, of course, if you are PREPARED to leave them. I was, since I get SO MANY card processing companies asking for my business each week.

Planet13




msg:4447216
 3:29 pm on Apr 29, 2012 (gmt 0)

@ jwolthuis

I thought WorldPay was simply a gateway?


They are both the gateway and the processor.

Stitchwell




msg:4448141
 8:52 pm on May 1, 2012 (gmt 0)

If the goods are delivered to the card address on the bank's file, we have always defended chargebacks successfully.

HRoth




msg:4448232
 2:41 am on May 2, 2012 (gmt 0)

"How do you avoid losing money every time a genuine card holder decides to rip you off after you have delivered their order to them?"

The best way I have found to deal with this issue is not to cater to people who are thieves. Certain products just attract fraud. I have gone through my site repeatedly over the years and removed products that attracted troublesome customers, like people who lie to get merchandise (or people who like to curse other folks out or treat a merchant like garbage). I have built up the products that attract people who are serious about what they buy; they don't have the time for stupid ripoff games. This approach works pretty well for me. IMO, if you want to sell something that attracts a lot of fraud, then it is part of the cost of doing business that you will have a lot of chargebacks. And IME, even having a signature is not sufficient for some of these outfits. They will say someone else signed for it. So you can either accept that or change your products so they are not pitched to thieves. Thieves are the minority. Most customers are honest.

Angrymerchant




msg:4448797
 7:22 am on May 3, 2012 (gmt 0)

Thank you every one for your feedback. Much appreciated.

enigma1 - In three recent cases we've had, the product was shipped to an address that was verified as the credit card billing address. Later when the chargeback was initiated, proof of delivery was given. End result was we lost those three chargebacks.

jwolthuis - worldpay is a gateway and acts as our intermediary for chargebacks. So far I've found them to be very good. The problem is the cases they present to the credit card companies for us are not won.

subuno - that is correct. we show confirmation of delivery and a screen shot from tracking of a customers signiture. Could be better proof is needed but worldpay says that this proof should be enough.

jrockfl - in all these chargeback cases, the order is shipped to the billing address. Can be tricky though because normally with payments in Europe, we are not told if the shipping and billing address are the same.

Stitchwell - who do you use for accepting credit card payments?

HRoth - a good idea, unfortunately all our products attract theives because they are small, compact, easy to sell and high value :(

************** update **************

Been in touch with Worldpay's fraud dept in the UK and they have been very helpful.

Of three recent chargebacks I specified to them, they are fighting one and think we can win it, a second was with an Amex card and Amex are high risk, the third was a very rare transaction not recognized type where we had grounds to go to the police under the grounds of fraud.

subuno




msg:4449042
 7:22 pm on May 3, 2012 (gmt 0)

Angerymerchant, that is interesting. Most times, merchants lose out because they don't have the delivery/signature confirmation. If chargebacks is a constant problem, you could potentially look at working with companies that focus on fighting chargeback for you. They might have a higher success rate than worldpay.

Angrymerchant




msg:4449165
 4:30 am on May 4, 2012 (gmt 0)

Thanks Subuno, for the moment we are looking at working with worldpay. If working with worldpay is not successful, we will look at a different company.

Stitchwell




msg:4449232
 8:06 am on May 4, 2012 (gmt 0)

We're with Streamline in the UK.

Best of luck with the chargeback defences, I hope they can help you.

olimits7




msg:4449471
 4:07 pm on May 4, 2012 (gmt 0)

I hate how it's so difficult to win chargebacks from fraudulent customers. Please let us know the outcomes of these 3 recent chargebacks I'm hoping your record to be undefeated at 3-0...lol.

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