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Fraud Order - No Boundaries!
olimits7




msg:4333303
 9:22 pm on Jun 30, 2011 (gmt 0)

Hi,

I just wanted to share my latest fraud attempt from a customer.

This guy places an order over $1K USD for a quantity of 8.

Immediately, I know this order is a fraud because I've noticed that every international order I receive the customer always uses my currency converter to change prices to their home currency to submit their order. This guy ends up submitting the order in USD when he states he's from Canada...dead giveaway!

Just more evidence on why this is a fraud order:
- The AVS returned was unavailable.
- CC BIN number is from Germany.
- IP address is from Senegal
- Shipping address is a UPS store in Canada.
- The guy immediately emails me after he submits the order all happy and saying he can't wait to receive his tracking number for his order.

At this point I usually email them back saying it's a suspicious order and to activate the order we would need to see a scanned drivers license and the credit card used in the order. This is the point when I usually never hear from them again.

However, this guy ends up scanning me a CC and drivers license where only the text is crystal clear and everything else on these are blurry like it would be from a scan. And to top it off he put down 2088 as the date issued instead of probably 2008.

I replied back to him again listing if he can explain all these issues; I wonder if I'll hear back from him again? hahahaha...

I can't believe how far people go to try to scam people who are trying to make an honest living; these people have no shame!

olimits7

 

CPC_Andrew




msg:4333326
 10:47 pm on Jun 30, 2011 (gmt 0)

Wow...Just wow...I heard that fraud in Canada is pretty widespread, I feel like that prevents some online retailers from marketing in those markets.

brokaddr




msg:4333547
 11:19 am on Jul 1, 2011 (gmt 0)

I live in Canada - fraud *within* Canada is nowhere as near as rampant as fraud from the USA and other parts of the world -- if you discern that fact, you may one day bypass my legit CC info & ship to a fraudster!

The caveats with a Canadian address should be *no different* than those in the US. Compare the routines to your legit Canadian customers. Notice anything weird? Cancel it.

Easy as pie. If you want to get technical, I notice (with my Ca-based biz) that most fraud originates from coastal areas of the US! If I were to cut-off/limit those areas from dispatch on mere suspicion, I'd lose a heap of orders.

CPC_Andrew




msg:4333648
 2:59 pm on Jul 1, 2011 (gmt 0)

Just sharing what I heard, not an attack on Canada.

SevenCubed




msg:4333655
 3:13 pm on Jul 1, 2011 (gmt 0)

CPC_Andrew -- when making these kinds of blanket statements it would give credibility if you would state your source of "what you heard" otherwise it is not something you should just throw out there. Please provide source of data that concluded what you say is true so we can read about it for ourselves.

sleepy_eye




msg:4333838
 8:36 pm on Jul 1, 2011 (gmt 0)

We get very little fraud from Canada, but what we do get is generally from the Quebec area. US, most of it from Florida and California.

CPC_Andrew




msg:4333845
 8:52 pm on Jul 1, 2011 (gmt 0)

@SevenCubed Two merchants which I talked to who explicitly said that they won't sell to Canada.

SevenCubed




msg:4333846
 8:53 pm on Jul 1, 2011 (gmt 0)

Oh No!

CPC_Andrew




msg:4333857
 9:16 pm on Jul 1, 2011 (gmt 0)

Yeah, and I believe they originated from the Quebec area as well. Thanks for asking for the source though, I can definitely see how my initial statement could have been read the wrong way.

SevenCubed




msg:4333865
 9:28 pm on Jul 1, 2011 (gmt 0)

I'm just suggesting that on a per-capita basis fraud is probably the same the world over.

Many years ago I worked with non-profit organizations that would not ship containers of agricultural tools to a certain area in the world that was in dire need of it because the material would never make it to its intended destination. That was pre-ecommerce days. Fraud is everywhere. Canada has its fair share of crooks not unlike anywhere else in the world. But it's not widespread. Your 2 references probably just had all the luck that's all.

CPC_Andrew




msg:4333874
 9:40 pm on Jul 1, 2011 (gmt 0)

Probably. Fraud per-capita would be an interesting study to read.

akmac




msg:4333928
 11:19 pm on Jul 1, 2011 (gmt 0)

I'm just suggesting that on a per-capita basis fraud is probably the same the world over.


Not in my experience. We ship internationally, and there are certainly countries where the percentage of fraudulent orders is disproportionate.

I've gotten fraudulent orders from many countries (Canada included), but I don't even look twice at orders from Ghana, Nigeria, Indonesia, Singapore, Vietnam, Indonesia, and a few others, because virtually ALL orders to those nations are fraudulent (in my niche).

Only a small percentage of my orders from Canada have been fraudulent-a lower percentage than US orders.

sleepy_eye




msg:4333954
 12:52 am on Jul 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

@akmac Agreed, unfortunately those areas you mentioned I can't even consider sending an order there. The odds of fraud is near 100% which is unfortunate for honest people from those areas.

votrechien




msg:4334645
 3:17 am on Jul 4, 2011 (gmt 0)

Very good fraud prevention strategy olimits7. A lot of folks would have taken that $1000 and let that 'greed instinct' kick in (one of the reasons I generally have very little sympathy for victims of obviuos fraud).

I should add another excellent strategy I find is to simply phone the customer (and request a phone number if they don't provide one). They'll almost never provide that number. In the event they do, if the product being sold requires any technical knowledge a few probing questions can determine their legitimacy (I sell boating products so I'll normally ask 'curiously' about the customers boat- the legit ones love to brag!).

Planet13




msg:4334666
 5:32 am on Jul 4, 2011 (gmt 0)

Many years ago I worked with non-profit organizations that would not ship containers of agricultural tools to a certain area in the world that was in dire need of it because the material would never make it to its intended destination.


Anyone interested in this should read The Quality of Mercy by William Shawcross.

Rugles




msg:4334896
 8:49 pm on Jul 4, 2011 (gmt 0)

Yes, there appears to be a group of fraudsters in the Montreal area. Or I should say, fraudsters in Africa have some co-horts in the Montreal area.

That being said, most of our fraud orders have a US address. I suspect in most cases somebody has too much trust for some email penpal in Africa and is just the middle-man in the scam.

Rugles




msg:4334897
 8:50 pm on Jul 4, 2011 (gmt 0)

@SevenCubed Two merchants which I talked to who explicitly said that they won't sell to Canada.


Awesome news for merchants north of the border. ;-)

dgoodale




msg:4335303
 5:44 pm on Jul 5, 2011 (gmt 0)

Fraud is less based on the location of the cardholder, and more based on the product or service offered. For example, online video game subscriptions are going to have more fraud than wool knitting supplies simply because of the folks interested in the product.

From a fraud perspective I don't think there is any significant difference between the US and Canada. However, from a law enforcement perspective, perhaps the US is more active than Canada? Truthfully I'm not sure about that, but on our side of the border in Canada, I've not been overwhelmed with the interest and efforts of law enforcement with small fraud cases. Then again, I think more investments are being made into cracking down on this, which is a good thing. It used to seem that unless it was a huge fraud (like hacking or impacting a bank's network or something like that) then there wasn't much interest. Hopefully it continues to change and the law cracks down harder and harder on fraudsters. Nothing drives me crazy like fraudsters. Sometimes you wish you could reach through the screen and teach them a lesson!

David Goodale

[edited by: lorax at 7:54 pm (utc) on Jul 6, 2011]
[edit reason] no contact info pls [/edit]

Rugles




msg:4335383
 8:39 pm on Jul 5, 2011 (gmt 0)

Friendly advice, you should delete that domain before the Mods see it.

That is not allowed here.

dgoodale




msg:4335771
 3:01 pm on Jul 6, 2011 (gmt 0)

I noticed that nobody has a signature in this forum. I suppose it's to prevent advertising, but it also makes it so you don't know who you are talking to or their qualifications!

In any case, thanks for the advice Rugles, I'll remove my domain from my signature.

dgoodale




msg:4335775
 3:03 pm on Jul 6, 2011 (gmt 0)

Darn it, it won't let me edit it. "Allowable time" has passed. Oh well, if a moderator sees it they can edit it (or ban me) as they see fit!

Rugles




msg:4335932
 6:40 pm on Jul 6, 2011 (gmt 0)

They won't ban you. It is an honest mistake.

Bewenched




msg:4346491
 3:35 am on Aug 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

Of all the countries in the world, we've had more cases of fraud from Canada than anywhere else! Almost to the point of blocking sales to Canada entirely.

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