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Kissing off PPC and glad for it
jsinger




msg:4034999
 11:40 pm on Dec 1, 2009 (gmt 0)

We had record traffic. This was also our first year of cutting all paid advertising as well and depending on natural SERPS.

That quote is from another poster on another thread but we've done about the same thing in recent months and have seen only INCREASED revenue and profits. We do get bought traffic from G (at great expense) but very, very few orders.

We start PPC, stop it, start again, time after time and I never see much difference except in the buckets of ad cash we save whenever we stop.

--
Note that we do have a large emailing list and do decently with natural search

 

rachel123




msg:4037978
 12:59 am on Dec 6, 2009 (gmt 0)

You can't run your business depending on Google to keep you on the first page.

If you can run your business depending on ability to outbid all competitors present and future, I can run mine depending on solid site design and organic placement. ;)

Really it's neither here nor there. It's just two different (equally valid) approaches. Sure PPC is a zero-sum game, but then so is organic placement. Everybody can't be first.

As stated before, my approach is to build a relevant and user-friendly/bot-friendly site, and soak up the 'free' traffic. I figure any major search engine depends on the quality of their SERPs, as along as I keep ahead of that game and maintain a quality site with lots of relevant inbound links - if Google goes under, I 'should' still rank well with the next big thing, plus I'll still have the traffic from the links, forums, social networks, etc that I developed as part of my SEO strategy.

Sure, I still use Adwords, and I am counting on maintaining my organic placements. The site I currently run has ranked well since the altavista/lycos days. We've done well in organic search since the inception of Google. Thirteen years of success, but sure, tomorrow the algo could explode and I could get dumped on page 100. Tomorrow someone might outbid you on all your keywords or Google could decide your landing page isn't good enough for them. It's just a matter of what kind of and how much risk you are comfortable with.

For some people it's a control thing. Organic rankings are more nebulous. If I lose organic placement I've got to figure out why and try to fix it without any definite answers. If I lose PPC placement, usually the cause is clear - someone outbid me - I just have to increase my bid. I can control that. Doesn't matter if increasing my bid would turn ROI negative - it's still something I can DO to fix things. Some people just need that kind of control - I have a friend who is big into PPC and you sound a lot like him. He needs that feeling of control and reassurance - I pay, I bid, this happens...nothing wrong with that. Just different personalities/approaches.

Leosghost




msg:4037986
 1:31 am on Dec 6, 2009 (gmt 0)

As stated before, my approach is to build a relevant and user-friendly/bot-friendly site, and soak up the 'free' traffic. I figure any major search engine depends on the quality of their SERPs, as along as I keep ahead of that game and maintain a quality site with lots of relevant inbound links - if Google goes under, I 'should' still rank well with the next big thing, plus I'll still have the traffic from the links, forums, social networks, etc that I developed as part of my SEO strategy.

Precisely Gorg isnt the only search engine ..nor the only source of traffic online ..there is also offline ..and building your own aff network for your products via ads on other peoples site ( not adsense just direct deals with other site owners ) ..never all your eggs in one basket ..

never all your business from one site ..
never all your business in one niche ..
never all your business just online ..
never just one product / service ..

never spend next quarters income this month ..

ogletree




msg:4037992
 1:43 am on Dec 6, 2009 (gmt 0)

I never said I wanted you to hire me. I mostly do SEO and do PPC for my SEO clients if they want it. I did not mention that I had a big secret. I gave you a specific list of things to do. PPC is not a scam it is just hard work. Everybody thanks they can just stick up a bunch of keyword and it should just work. I asked you several questions and you ignored them. You don't seem to want help you just want to complain and not accept that this might be your fault. If PPC is like most people in this thread say it is Google would be in bankruptcy. Do you really think people would spend billions a year if PPC did not work. Quit trying to blame your lack of knowledge and work ethic on Google.

rise2it




msg:4038043
 6:03 am on Dec 6, 2009 (gmt 0)

"Every time I see somebody complain about PPC I see that they don't know what they are doing."

---------

It's not a matter of knowing what to do....it's a matter of the massive amount of time involved - time which, for me, is better spent with either suppliers or customers.

I didn't go into business so I could spent 60 hours a week staring at a screen studying charts and spreadsheets.

I can do it - I have done it, and done it well. I simply do not enjoy it, and do not wish to spend the rest of my working life doing it.

rise2it




msg:4040123
 3:54 pm on Dec 9, 2009 (gmt 0)

...but that's just me ;-)

sem4u




msg:4040149
 4:26 pm on Dec 9, 2009 (gmt 0)

I have done PPC for so many years now, and I think it is time to give it up for a bit. It is funny how PPC is seen as just being a cost, yet SEO is seen by many as being 'free'.

HRoth




msg:4040163
 4:39 pm on Dec 9, 2009 (gmt 0)

"Do you really think people would spend billions a year if PPC did not work."

People spend billions on all sorts of things that don't work. I mean, gambling? Diets? It's called "magical thinking" (or maybe we should call it "magical spending":)).

pbradish




msg:4040298
 8:57 pm on Dec 9, 2009 (gmt 0)

I have done PPC for so many years now, and I think it is time to give it up for a bit. It is funny how PPC is seen as just being a cost, yet SEO is seen by many as being 'free'.

In a competitive niche, SEO is far from free :)

As for the thread topic, I think that doing away with PPC is ridiculous notion if you know how to do it correctly and stay within your margins.

If you're not getting the return that you're looking for out of Google Adwords for example, I'd highly suggest becoming an Adwords Certified Individual. Soaking in all of that exam info really helped me to learn and take my ROI to the next level.

Also, remember the PPC conversion tracking depends on the parameters set. You may bring in 10,000 customers from a PPC ad, but if you don't have parameter tracking set up correctly - you won't know whether they came from a Google, Yahoo, or MSN ad prior to an organic result. Many times a customer will visit a site multiple times before converting. In those cases, I would typically give the conversion to the PPC ad for 'planting the seed'.

trinorthlighting




msg:4040378
 12:10 am on Dec 10, 2009 (gmt 0)

1

Digmen1




msg:4040986
 10:09 pm on Dec 10, 2009 (gmt 0)

Google gave me a $75 credit.
I fired up some adwords keywords etc and did not get one visit.
They did not seem to throw my ads up when they could have.
So they must be rich enough.

I wonder if I still have that credit ?.... mmmm

aleksl




msg:4041093
 2:14 am on Dec 11, 2009 (gmt 0)

Leosghost: it's called the casino principle ..or a the carnies say "there is always another dumb mark waiting in line" ..

Hundreds lose their shirts ( and don't admit it ) ..one or two win a little of the overall pot ..and the house rakes it in ..even more so if they can make it as black box as PPC ..and get away with it ..

Also sometimes known as blind auctions ..where you lose your bid ..even if you dont have the winning bid that gets the "lot" ..

That's an interesting way to put it.

MrHard




msg:4041111
 3:17 am on Dec 11, 2009 (gmt 0)

"Do you really think people would spend billions a year if PPC did not work."

Sure they do. PPC is more like a lottery then a ROI tool for many. It's called chasing the sale. Get one sale and you chase the next one which is always right around the next corner. It's easy to let it ride with a credit card.

lorax




msg:4041343
 2:28 pm on Dec 11, 2009 (gmt 0)

I think the way all of us view/use PPC is changing and always will as the Inet and our business needs change. At the pace the Internet is currently changing, I suspect we'll see a LOT of ups and downs in the use of PPC as well as new and creative uses for it. Some people will lose their shirts while others find it very profitable.

Stock exchanges are similar in complexity yes? Some people are great and make money while others aren't. Some people play it safe and bank on the long haul while others risk it all for the short term gain. There are plenty of thesis out there discussing stocks. What it comes down to is so many different factors that go into the formula. Some people can intuitively use the tool and make money while others are blind to their limitations or they're smart enough to realize it's not a good fit for their business.

I think it's very dangerous to distill the use of any complex tool down to a concise formula because if something doesn't work out right, then the focus is on the small pieces rather than being able to see the whole process and how your business works with it. I've spent a lot of time trying to teach this principal to clients. Those that can see their business as a dynamic piece of a much larger whole often succeed while those focused on recipes often fail.

For some reason I'm thinking about print & TV advertising too. I'm not drawing a direct equivalent to PPC with them but they've been around for many years and are still viable forms of advertising. Print is waning but still useful if used in the right way. TV is still very useful. Over time we've learned that a buyer needs to see/hear your name and product over and over again before they commit it to memory or buy something. How many of you are old enough to remember the jingle "I'd like to buy the world a Coke and keep it company." Successful advertising is about branding and not the short term gain. It's not something you use to create immediate revenue - though sometimes this approach works - think holiday sale. PPC is no different. It has it's uses and issues. The game is to figure out what it's good for and what it's not per our own situation.

Personally, I think it's useful but you won't see me using all the time either. Strategic use is my approach.

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