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PayPal getting more difficult?
dpd1

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3799519 posted 11:04 pm on Dec 3, 2008 (gmt 0)

I've had very few complaints from customers over the years about PayPal, but recently got a few within a short time. One of the complaints seems to be a possible change they've made. One customer was refused when he tried to pay as a non-member, because the system told him he already had an account and had to use that. I assume it recognized his email. The problem is, he didn't have the password to get into his account and that annoyed him. The same guy paid as a non member a few months ago with no problem. I had a similar complaint from someone who wanted to pay as a non member and use her company's card, but her personal email apparently made the system insist she had to use her account, which had her own card.

Is this some new change they made? Because it creates more difficulty for people to just pay as a non member. I've sent the same question to PP, but no answer yet. And I doubt I''ll get a decent one when they do.

 

Quadrille

WebmasterWorld Senior Member quadrille us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3799519 posted 12:01 am on Dec 4, 2008 (gmt 0)

I suspect it's a security thing.

In the first case, I can see the logic of not allowing a meber to use Paypal as if he was a non-member - even if that's an inconvenience for him.

The second case is not so clear - it may be that the company has barred the use of its cards for ebay.

CaptClayC

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3799519 posted 12:22 am on Dec 4, 2008 (gmt 0)

Just started using Paypal on my site and had the same problem. If you get an answer I would sure like to hear.

pageoneresults

WebmasterWorld Senior Member pageoneresults us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3799519 posted 12:34 am on Dec 4, 2008 (gmt 0)

If you can, switch to PayPal Pro and use the API. Once we switched from the default out of the box PayPal to the new improved PayPal via API, things changed considerably. Thousands of transactions and few issues. Of those few issues, most are related to user error of some sort. With the API, you have total control over presentation and therefore can eliminate that out of the box PayPal confusion. It is present, it's happened to me too, even after all these years. They've also moved things around over the years. At one point, PayPal was not as prominent. Then it reverted back to a more prominent PayPal display.

The PayPal API rocks! Or at least for us it does. :)

pbradish

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3799519 posted 4:00 am on Dec 4, 2008 (gmt 0)

Paypal has become more difficult IMO.

dpd1

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3799519 posted 12:46 am on Dec 5, 2008 (gmt 0)

I think I was already grandfathered in as pro, but I'll check.

I called and they confirmed that if somebody logs in as a non member and uses an email that has been saved in the system as a member, the system will not allow them to use anything else but their account and the card listed with that account. Someone who just had this happen logged in as a non member a few months back and it worked. Now it didn't work using the same email. So I think this is something they must have added. The only thing I can think to do is if you are sending a request, just ask them for an address that isn't already associated with an account, unless they have access to that account or want to use the card with that account. And maybe post the same info on the site to warn people. I don't see how this really makes things more secure. It just makes it more confusing. They should get over the whole 'member' thing and just offer a straight through payment system, without the little quirks tied into the member side of it. They were just starting to kick the membership thing associated with PayPal, and then they do this.

Quadrille

WebmasterWorld Senior Member quadrille us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3799519 posted 1:27 am on Dec 5, 2008 (gmt 0)

More secure for them, not for you.

If you are a member, they have access to your bank or credit card (or both) for chargebacks etc, if you use the services without that, it's not so easy for them to screw you over, though they usually find a way.

You need to get away from the idea that Paypal is a service to you; it isn't. It's a service for ebay, and anyone else they can squeeze money out of.

I was a happy Paypal user for years, but in recent times, I fear for my money with Paypal much more than rogue ebay merchants; I use it as little as I can.

Luckily, these days, there are viable alternatives, which was not always the case.

jecasc

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3799519 posted 9:13 am on Dec 5, 2008 (gmt 0)

In Germany, users have to agree now that the data they submit is sent to all kind of credit bureaus and ebay for confirmation.

Since then Paypal payments have plummeted. I am looking for a new payment solution now. I'll probably switch to moneybookers.

The problem is their stupid seller protection and buyer protection. I would happily take the risk of chargebacks myself, when the customers would in return be able to pay easily.

What's the use of a payment provider when at least 40% of the users are not able to make their payment because its either to complicated or they are not comfortable with Paypal throwing their personal data arround.

I have used Paypal to pay for my own purchases in the past. And more and more sellers send some information like this along in their email confirmation: "Thank you for your purchase. You have chosen Paypal as payment option. If you have problems making you payment or want to change your means of payment for any reason please contact us."

Quadrille

WebmasterWorld Senior Member quadrille us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3799519 posted 11:46 am on Dec 5, 2008 (gmt 0)

As I set up new services, I always offer a choice; Paypal users are a declining sector.

pageoneresults

WebmasterWorld Senior Member pageoneresults us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3799519 posted 1:48 pm on Dec 5, 2008 (gmt 0)

You need to get away from the idea that Paypal is a service to you; it isn't. It's a service for ebay, and anyone else they can squeeze money out of.

Wow! Is PayPal really that bad? I mean, I've been using PayPal since the 90s and I cannot for the life of me think of any major challenges outside of the "existing" PayPal account stuff. Ya, I know, that can be a real pain in the arse.

We process hundreds of transactions every month via PayPal with very few issues. If you are a business that relies on PayPal as your sole processor, then you will most likely take the time and make the investment to utilize the API, it changes the playing field considerably.

The way ya'll are talking, you are starting to make me think twice about our PayPal offerings. That's what these types of topics do.

On a side note, I didn't like Wells Fargo so I changed banks years ago. I'm not 100% pleased with me current bank either but I'm not changing again, it ain't worth it. The same would apply to our PayPal implementations. They seem to work just fine for the most part, just as well as any of our ecommerce platforms using Authorize.net or whatever. I also make purchases using PayPal and I've not had a single issue in that area. The sites I've purchased from offered the option, I used it and everything worked fine.

Heh! PayPal gets treated just like Microsoft and Windows around here. ;)

Quadrille

WebmasterWorld Senior Member quadrille us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3799519 posted 2:57 pm on Dec 5, 2008 (gmt 0)

PayPal gets treated just like Microsoft and Windows around here.

1. There is some justice then?
2. ... But not as bad as Google gets treated!

:)

But more seriously, Views on Paypal vary a lot between buyers, small sellers, and big sellers.

In my experience, satisfaction is good for the big guys, not too bad for most small sellers - but buyers, as a group, are the most unhappy.

But disatisfaction is probably a at a pretty low level; just that those of us who feel shafted do tend to go on about it.

But I'm increasingly finding that where there's a choice, buyers are moving to anything other than ebay.

Quadrille

WebmasterWorld Senior Member quadrille us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3799519 posted 3:56 pm on Dec 5, 2008 (gmt 0)

But I'm increasingly finding that where there's a choice, buyers are moving to anything other than ebay.

Ooops! Freudian slip - I meant to say:

But I'm increasingly finding that where there's a choice, buyers are moving to anything other than Paypal.

piatkow

WebmasterWorld Senior Member piatkow us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3799519 posted 11:45 pm on Dec 5, 2008 (gmt 0)


existing" PayPal account stuff.

Got hit by that once when trying to pay somebody. They created an account when I bought from another PP merchant six months previously. No problem, if it says Paypal then there is always somewhere else with a proper merchant account at the same price a clicfk or two away.

Lovejoy

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3799519 posted 6:12 pm on Dec 6, 2008 (gmt 0)

I've used PayPal since 2000 with no problems that I can remember. If you're worried about them freezing your account, just clear it out when ever you have "X" dollars in it. I never leave more than a couple of hundred in mine at a time, and the bank account that's linked to it never has more than enough money in it than needed to cover bank charges ;~)

Lovejoy

piatkow

WebmasterWorld Senior Member piatkow us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3799519 posted 9:25 pm on Dec 8, 2008 (gmt 0)

Lovejoy, you have got this thread back to front.

Customers make routine payments using their credit cards
Merchant uses Paypal to accept payment
Paypal creates an empty account for customer
Customer tries to use credit card with another merchant
Merchant uses Paypal to accept payment
Customer is ordered to log in to the account they didn't know they had.
Customer decides this is merchant's fault goes elsewhere and tells friends to avoid the site.

The Contractor

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3799519 posted 10:21 pm on Dec 8, 2008 (gmt 0)

PayPal account holders should understand if they want to use a credit card or not login to PayPal, they simply have to use a credit/debit card not registered with their PayPal account, flush their cookies, and use a different email address then is associated with their PayPal account. Yes this is a pain, but PayPal account holders should know/understand this. It has nothing to do with the merchant.

Quadrille

WebmasterWorld Senior Member quadrille us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3799519 posted 10:40 pm on Dec 8, 2008 (gmt 0)

Right.

An easier solution, for anyone you have an account with (not only paypal), is to use your primary browser for 'normal' logged in activities, but *never* your secondary browser; that way, you can use your secondary browser for those services as a non-member on a routine basis.

Works even smoother if you use a different 'logged in' gmail address in each browser.

Works for me ...

NB As Poppy and other M$ fans will doubtless confirm, you can also use different 'Windows Identities', rather than flush cookies etc., - but I've never met a soul who actually does that. Poppy?

[edited by: Quadrille at 10:45 pm (utc) on Dec. 8, 2008]

Lovejoy

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3799519 posted 1:20 am on Dec 9, 2008 (gmt 0)

piatkow

I know what they're talking about, I'm just saying I've had no problems since 2000. It's an issue that people mention from time to time, and usually followed by " PayPal's terrible they froze my account". I'm actually ahead of comments that're bound to come next ;~)

Lovejoy

dpd1

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3799519 posted 7:58 pm on Dec 9, 2008 (gmt 0)

<PayPal account holders should understand if they want to use a credit card or not login to PayPal, they simply have to use a credit/debit card not registered with their PayPal account, flush their cookies, and use a different email address then is associated with their PayPal account. Yes this is a pain, but PayPal account holders should know/understand this. It has nothing to do with the merchant. >

I agree... But as you know, everything is always our fault. ;-)

piatkow

WebmasterWorld Senior Member piatkow us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3799519 posted 9:12 pm on Dec 9, 2008 (gmt 0)

What is all this account cr*p anyway? I have an account with my credit card company and an account with my bank. I don't expect to have to create an account with your card processor just to buy something. No bricks and mortar outlet does that.

dpd1

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3799519 posted 11:11 pm on Dec 9, 2008 (gmt 0)

<<What is all this account cr*p anyway? I have an account with my credit card company and an account with my bank. I don't expect to have to create an account with your card processor just to buy something. No bricks and mortar outlet does that. >>

Thanks for proving my point. I assume you don't have an online sales business, judging by the comments you've made. I'm not sure why you are even posting on this thread, except to annoy people who actually run web sales businesses...

But if you turn on the pref on your PayPal account that says you don't want customers to have to have an account to use PayPal, they can pay using a card like any other site. Then at the end it asks you if you want to become a member or just checkout. But I guess it's the business owners fault if people choose the wrong thing and sign up for an account. So I'm expected to pay out a bunch of money to a separate processor, just because a few people can't follow directions.

fargo1999



 
Msg#: 3799519 posted 12:51 am on Dec 22, 2008 (gmt 0)

I think it's Paypal fault (big one) too. Why did they make this "Continue" link so small and in result confusing that it is hardly seen by many users? I refer to the link "Continue":

Don't have a PayPal account?
Use your credit card or bank account (where available). Continue

mansterfred

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3799519 posted 2:02 pm on Dec 22, 2008 (gmt 0)

We have been using Paypal for a few years. Has a few things that could be stronger... Reporting!

But I have never found a cheaper solution on rates. We were using Wells which has tacked on fees and we were paying 3/3-4%. With the paypal cash back we probably average 1.5% in fees.

PIATKOW can you duplicate this on my website. I have never heard of this nor could I duplicate it and I take paypal..

bouncybunny

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3799519 posted 2:25 pm on Dec 22, 2008 (gmt 0)

I no longer use paypal as a seller or as a buyer(if I can help it) for the reasons outlined in the first post.

Shame, it used to be convenient.

dublinmike

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3799519 posted 1:02 am on Jan 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

piatkow you've got this exactly correct. We put 80K through Paypal last year but we're running for our lives now. We have had 56 abandoned sales in 2008 reported from GA amounting to a total of 16K down the toilet.

With that T/O we have never have a sensible conversation with anyone in Paypal...ever.

You cannot sell to someone who has bought without a full account created before.

We use the api btw but the payments can be high so perhaps there's a trigger figure.

dublinmike

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3799519 posted 1:04 am on Jan 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

oh well, the messages I as replying to is gone, therefore am rendered irrelevant. sigh.

particleman

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3799519 posted 2:47 am on Jan 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

We have used WPP/paypal as our primary merchant for several years now. Knock on wood we don't really have transaction issues to speak of. UPS/USPS labels are very handy. Their API is pretty solid aside from IPN issues every once in a while.

My main complaint is their haphazard updates. It seems every time paypal makes an update everyone knows about it because something ALWAYS breaks. Usually on the website administration section thankfully, but it can be a real problem sometimes.

anallawalla

WebmasterWorld Administrator anallawalla us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3799519 posted 3:38 am on Jan 31, 2009 (gmt 0)

Undoubtedly PayPal works fine for the majority of people and that's my experience, as I mainly use it to pay for hosting or non-eBay purchases.

However, a friend of mine changed her personal account to a non-profit one is still struggling with the Paypal bureaucracy. She heads a NFP organisation that has a tax-exempt, charitable status. Someone sent her (personally) money as a gift (not knowing about this Paypal change of status). Her personal bank account is still attached to this account. She cannot access this account to pay anyone, so the money is locked in until she sends proof of NFP status, bank details etc.

Paypal's error here was to allow a change of status *before* it had received this proof -- waiting for the account holder to discover that the account is frozen is a poor customer experience.

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