| 4:18 pm on Jun 17, 2008 (gmt 0)|
Are you sure its a Phillippines financial institution? Most orders we see from there end up being a french bank and 100% fraud. "Gray" market is so huge over there that if its a commodity item or tech/electronics then its 99.9% chance of being fraud.
I would simply deny the transaction that you couldn't authorize the charge. If for anything the fees will probably be 4-5% for a bank that far out of the food chain even if it is legit.
| 5:50 pm on Jun 17, 2008 (gmt 0)|
I'm not sure where the bank is located. It is not US bank for sure. Actually I did already ship one item (small value) to this customer few days ago, but this order is over $1000. I am just wondering how visa operates in countries like that. I know for fact that in some eastern european countries people are not aware of disputes and they are usually held responsible for unauthorized purchases on their credit card.
| 7:40 pm on Jun 17, 2008 (gmt 0)|
There are a number of red flags with this order. You should be able to determine whether the customer is legitimate be changing the payment method from one where you bear all the risk, to one where they bear the bulk of the risk-Western Union.
As it is, I suspect you'll be getting a charge back notice within the next three months for the first transaction.
Customers asking to ship items through an intermediary warrant extra scrutiny, as they can use such a company (even legitimate ones) to forward goods to a country or region that a vendor would not ship to- like Vietnam, Indonesia, Nigeria, Ghana etc.
| 3:47 am on Jun 18, 2008 (gmt 0)|
"Actually I did already ship one item (small value) to this customer few days ago, but this order is over $1000."
I am afraid this is a big red flag. Scammers typically soften a merchant with a small order first followed by a big one. I would suggest that you politely decline it and ask for it to be paid to T/T or escrow.
We have shipped lots of orders to high risk countries like this but only as long as we know that it is issued by a local bank. I suspect that your customers is using a hacked credit from a US or European bank.
| 5:03 am on Jun 18, 2008 (gmt 0)|
Easy, call the customer and get the phone number of the bank on the back of the card. Call the bank to verify name and address and phone number. You can then put on the correct info. when you charge the card, and your good to go.
| 5:47 am on Jun 18, 2008 (gmt 0)|
"Easy, call the customer and get the phone number of the bank on the back of the card. Call the bank to verify name and address and phone number. You can then put on the correct info. when you charge the card, and your good to go."
I would be shocked if any bank is willing to reveal their customers' details to a third party. I would be interested to know if you have been able to do this.
| 6:19 am on Jun 18, 2008 (gmt 0)|
|"Easy, call the customer and get the phone number of the bank on the back of the card. Call the bank to verify name and address and phone number. You can then put on the correct info. when you charge the card, and your good to go." |
Easy, call the customer and get the phone number of the bank on the back of the card. He will then give you the phone number of his buddy who will pretend to be the bank and verify anything you want.
I would tell him you are afraid, but you cannot accept a credit card payment on his order. Tell him to do a bank transfer. Usually not more expensive than a credit card payment but safer.
| 2:10 pm on Jun 18, 2008 (gmt 0)|
I think calling customer and asking for bank phone number is not a good idea. He can give me any phone number and than have someone pretend to be bank emplyee. I guess I will have to wait and see if he got me on this first order. I did refuse to ship secund order and ask for other form of payment.
| 2:54 pm on Jun 18, 2008 (gmt 0)|
In my days working in a bank rule number one was always to verify the numbers of other banks or branches from the phone book.
| 6:38 pm on Jun 18, 2008 (gmt 0)|
|I would be shocked if any bank is willing to reveal their customers' details to a third party. I would be interested to know if you have been able to do this. |
We do it all the time with Canadian orders which dont work with our AVS. They dont give info., you give them the customer info. and they either say match or no match. Standard procedure.
People dont directly answer a banks number. They have automated systems which ask for account numbers, and machines which give prerecorded messages. Its possible for a high tech scammer to duplicate I guess but nothing is 100%.
| 3:41 am on Jun 19, 2008 (gmt 0)|
I am very surprised and horrified about this. In Hong Kong, just merely confirming that the person is a customer of the bank would be breaking privacy law. Otherwise, I can see this being used by scammers and other criminal elements with ill intent.
| 10:06 pm on Jun 22, 2008 (gmt 0)|
"I am very surprised and horrified about this. In Hong Kong, just merely confirming that the person is a customer of the bank would be breaking privacy law. Otherwise, I can see this being used by scammers and other criminal elements with ill intent."
It's this kind of archaeic thought process that makes it so difficult for merchants to perform fraud prevention. In a card-not-present transaction environment you can't get caught up in privacy acts or worried fraudsters will also use a bank verification to their advantage. Fraudsters already are illegally hacking into databases and doing all sorts of other exploits to steal consumer info. A bank confirming the name address and phone on an account is NOT a security risk. The bank should see the pre-authorization with your merchant name and account number and can ask to be provided this information.
Ispy hit it on the nail except for the fact that communicating with a INTL bank to do verification is usually pretty difficult. As already stated, the fact that they followed a large transaction after a small one is a huge red flag. Consider the first order a ping or a test and now that they have their foot in the door they want to open the flood gates. Take my advice and dont process the order.
| 10:42 pm on Jun 22, 2008 (gmt 0)|
"How can I protect myself from potential chargeback in this case? "
You can't. Sad to say, but that's the system we're stuck with.
Cancel the order.
| 9:08 pm on Jun 23, 2008 (gmt 0)|
|How to verify if purchase isn't fraudlent if customer use credit card issued by philippines financial institution. I can't run AVS on it on the top of that he wants me to ship it to company transporting cargo which is located within US and they will somehow deliver it to him. |
This has several red flags of the classic scam, and certainly I would not recommend accepting it as others have said.
However, if you have the first 6 digits of the credit card number you can lookup the bank name and customer service number of the bank that issued the card.
(The first 6 digits are the BIN - Bank Identification Number.)
Certainly you will find it difficult to get anything out of the issuing institution unless you have the authorization code from them for this transaction and your merchant ID with Visa or MasterCard to quote, and even then you will not be able to find out much.
[edited by: Bjorn_Iceland at 9:08 pm (utc) on June 23, 2008]
| 1:05 am on Jun 24, 2008 (gmt 0)|
Your gut feeling is almost certainly right. Cash-quality payment is the only way you should take this on - and that means a wire transfer.
| 1:42 am on Jun 24, 2008 (gmt 0)|
When I was with Worldpay, they could do "Code 10" checks for us which are in reality manual AVS checks. They would contact the institution directly through Streamline for us to verify the name and address of the cardholder. Usually, we do get results back within a day or two. There would be no problems with banks in most countries except France and a few other European countries that have laws prohibiting this type of check. I wonder whether your processor has anything equivalent.
But as the others said earlier, this is almost certain to be fraud. But it would still be worthwhile to know what to do if you are faced with a similar situation in future.
| 2:48 pm on Aug 9, 2008 (gmt 0)|
about the cargo company used:
I'm Filipino and the reason that Filipinos purchasing goods from the US are having these items sent over through cargo forwarders is because cargo to the Philippines - fondly called "balikbayan boxes" comes out way cheaper at between $50 to $90 measuring as big as 24"x18"x24" - this way, it comes out as consolidated shipment and these boxes normally get through customs without a problem (no import tax most of the time) unless it is packed full of electronic goods. not having to pay import taxes on the goods makes these cargo companies a popular delivery option even if you have to wait a few weeks for the item to arrive.
about using credit cards for electronics purchase:
maybe a little late in helping you with the situation but should anyone else encounter a purchase from the Philippines, there are legit purchases out there. my friend has purchased both his high-end camera and laptop online from u.s. online retailers and had them shipped in a similar manner - shipped to a u.s. friend or relative's address and let them ship it through a cargo forwarder. but then again, those retailers might have used credit card verification services.
about requiring documents:
yes, that might help and your customer might not mind it a bit if you asked him nicely about it and explained the situation. it may help you a little in terms of knowing that the customer's valid ID is consistent with credit card name and that the customer has possession of the credit card.
getting in contact with the credit card company:
emailing our local bank's customer service department would usually result in a reply a week late even when they say they will reply to your inquiry within 24 hours. so it won't help you in time.
as for verification, i wont be much help but this much i can tell you:
two of my siblings operate an online gift shop ( overseas customers - mostly u.s. residents sending items to Filipino beneficiaries ) and are just as annoyed when chargebacks happen. They use 2CO and CCNOW and both processors are able to verify local credit cards when within-the-country purchases are made. There are also U.S merchants who have had good experience with Philippine customers - they obviously have no problem verifying our Philippine issued credit cards. So you might want to do a little research on how they have verified and approved transactions made by foreign issued credit cards.
| 9:59 am on Aug 18, 2008 (gmt 0)|
if its to good a purchase to be true, well its its probley to good to be true!
A real buyer would have no problem in making a wire transfer.