| 10:59 pm on Jan 30, 2012 (gmt 0)|
Hm. I remember once looking up a spammer's domain and finding a completely nonexistent address. I knew it didn't exist, because it was ostensibly in my own small town :) Maybe they thought the place is so remote, nobody would ever check. But if you're going to put down an imaginary address, why not put it in a big older city? Even the cab drivers couldn't swear under oath that there is no such place as Dunkelgasse No. 17.
Does ICANN have any bright ideas on how the registrars are supposed to know their information is accurate? Are we all about to get phone calls from people with dense Asian accents verifying that we exist?
| 5:23 am on Jan 31, 2012 (gmt 0)|
This is not unlike any other regulation, rule, law, etc., that targets people who do not play by the rules. People who have always provided accurate information need not worry. And as for those people who whine about invasion of privacy, it is all public record. There is no legitimate reason, in my opinion, to conceal the owner of a domain. And if you want your information to remain private, then do what has always been available and pay for private registration.
| 1:16 pm on Jan 31, 2012 (gmt 0)|
I disagree Marshal and I'd like to put your public record privacy theory to the test, if I may.
Test, please respond in a post with the answers to the following question: What is your full name, current mailing address and phone number where I can reach you right now? Somehow I don't think you'll want to post those, for obvious privacy reasons.
My point is that ICANN may need the information in order to deal with fraud or proper legal request but joe public does not need them since it is highly unlikely anyone you don't know NEEDS to call you, mail you something or god forbid knock on your door if you post something online they don't like (lots of crazies out there).
Does ICANN's plan to make real information mandatory come with a plan to protect that information from Joe Public? If it doesn't we are about to have an unprecedented source of personal information thrown online for better or worse.
A BETTER idea - make real information mandatory but remove public access to it, without proper legal reason/request, just like with all other sources e.g. drivers license, passport, banking information etc. This would also put an end to website privacy fees which in many cases are higher per year than the domain registration fees depending on registrar. In my opinion it should have been this way from the start.
P.S. Please DO NOT post real information here to prove a point, it's a bad idea, I just wanted to demonstrate that privacy does matter.
| 1:56 pm on Jan 31, 2012 (gmt 0)|
I for one feel this should have been done in the very beginning. I guess better late than never. I do hope the ones out there using fake names and addresses to tie up good domains lose them or have to pay out the ars for buying the privacy.
If your so scared to post something online that might bring a nut to the house then it best not post it. People think they are behind a screen yea right it isn't that hard to find out your address and other personal info if I chose to really dig for it.
| 2:01 pm on Jan 31, 2012 (gmt 0)|
|What is your full name, current mailing address and phone number where I can reach you right now? |
If you go to my user profile and click on my website, you will find all that information. As a business, concealing that information might make me and my company look less legitimate.
| 2:17 pm on Jan 31, 2012 (gmt 0)|
|Does ICANN have any bright ideas on how the registrars are supposed to know their information is accurate? Are we all about to get phone calls from people with dense Asian accents verifying that we exist? |
If this system is to be implemented, IDs should be centralized at ICANN with registrars provided an API to access it. That way there's no pressure on registrars and if one changes information at ICANN, it would change at every registrar. It's going to be a tall order to implement this though. What happens to all the domains that have unreachable email addresses or where people don't bother to sign up for this?
| 2:48 pm on Jan 31, 2012 (gmt 0)|
you lose them. I did a post 4-5 years ago were I was trying to buy a domain misspell from a squatter with bogus info. I tried for several years to contact this dude emails bounced so I took the steps and had the domain taken from him and bought it when it was available. I was accused of stealing in here by some but I could care less what they thought if you’re going to squat with bad info you should lose the domains period.
|What happens to all the domains that have unreachable email addresses or where people don't bother to sign up for this? |
| 2:58 pm on Jan 31, 2012 (gmt 0)|
|Please DO NOT post real information here to prove a point, it's a bad idea |
Other than the fact that I'm pretty sure we're not allowed to by the forum rules, why?
| 3:20 pm on Jan 31, 2012 (gmt 0)|
There are 1000's of people who do nothing but read post without input and in some post you might not agree with lets say a as an example a Google update. You post some very strong wording it doesn't take much to connect the dots and could cause you possible issues.
|Other than the fact that I'm pretty sure we're not allowed to by the forum rules, why? |
| 3:25 pm on Jan 31, 2012 (gmt 0)|
If I said it, why should I be free from the responsibility for it?
| 3:42 pm on Jan 31, 2012 (gmt 0)|
Personally I would not have a problem with this, if the ICANN were not US based.
Every time I have to identify myself to a US based entity they demand ridiculous items like electricity bills or water bills or laundry bills or whatever.
- Please send a copy of water or electricity bill to ID yourself.
- Hey you can have a copy of my identity card with my address on it. We have those here in most of Europe.
- No, send me a copy of your water bill.
- I do not have a water bill. The water is included in the rent of my apartement.
- Please send electricity bill.
- Electricity is not on my name but on the name of my friend, what about my ID, passport?
- Please send electricity or water bill.
| 3:50 pm on Jan 31, 2012 (gmt 0)|
|If I said it, why should I be free from the responsibility for it? |
If you're just asking a question and you're concerned the Panda will attack, you might not want to reveal details.
On the other hand, if you're up to mischief I can't see how it is reasonable.
| 4:01 pm on Jan 31, 2012 (gmt 0)|
|As a business, concealing that information might make me and my company look less legitimate. |
It always does to me, and "less legitimate" is putting it mildy.
| 4:02 pm on Jan 31, 2012 (gmt 0)|
Please send electricity or water bill.
All my suppliers use paperless billing!
Actually I annoy my electricity company by insisting on having a paper bill from them because I may need it for ID.
I see no problem with a reasonable degree of id verification but for private individuals privacy should be standard. If the need to give details to an overseas registrar is an issue then buy local.
| 4:17 pm on Jan 31, 2012 (gmt 0)|
As I treat my web sites as businesses they each are registered businesses with appropriate legal addresses (not my personal name and address).
Yes, it costs more but I decided years ago that (1) it was the proper mindset, (2) it retained personal privacy while maintaining public accessibility, and (3) in some ways easier to transfer ownership should I decide to sell.
It is long past time that websites selling goods/services/ads/af links were treated as businesses by all concerned.
And I suppose that 'privacy' services will remain as an option to obfuscate public facing information for those who decide to register with direct personal data.
Regardless, as has been mentioned, registering with fake or with real but 'borrowed' identification will likely continue just as it does in the 'real' world. Can you say human behaviour?
| 4:19 pm on Jan 31, 2012 (gmt 0)|
|There is no legitimate reason, in my opinion, to conceal the owner of a domain. |
The three personal protection orders I've had to take out over the years beg to differ.
It's nobody's bloody business how many domains I own or what they are, or what I'm doing with them,or if I just want to sit on them till the cows come home.
| 4:26 pm on Jan 31, 2012 (gmt 0)|
netmeg, what do you feel separates your business from any other business that would have such issues?
| 4:33 pm on Jan 31, 2012 (gmt 0)|
I have no problem if a person feels the need to hide their contact info. That is there buz and has really no effect on a decision to do business with them or not. I just feel it needs to be correct that is all.
| 4:47 pm on Jan 31, 2012 (gmt 0)|
Google is a domain registrar I recall, so they can readily ID the domains/sites belonging to the same owner and ban/demote them all at once.
| 4:48 pm on Jan 31, 2012 (gmt 0)|
|netmeg, what do you feel separates your business from any other business that would have such issues? |
Nothing. It's not my business about anybody's else's domains either.
| 4:51 pm on Jan 31, 2012 (gmt 0)|
It most certainly is other people's business when they're hiding behind anonymity to get away with stuff they wouldn't get away with if their identity were attached to it.
| 5:09 pm on Jan 31, 2012 (gmt 0)|
Why are domains any different from anything else? I can't be prevented from using pseudonyms, post office boxes, multiple phone numbers to do any number of activities legal or illegal.
I don't get this whole "give up all privacy in case someone might do something wrong" stuff.
| 5:25 pm on Jan 31, 2012 (gmt 0)|
You're not "giving up all privacy", you are putting your name on your actions. There's no need for hyperbole.
Speaking of post office boxes, do you get upset with them when they ask for an ID?
| 5:33 pm on Jan 31, 2012 (gmt 0)|
I think the real question is, who will be the first stalker victim? Lawyers in the crowd should form a biz model right now on helping domain owners who will be victims of stalking.
Yep - I think I will go into the Postal PO Box business for domain owners.
| 6:48 pm on Jan 31, 2012 (gmt 0)|
I WAS the first stalker victim, back in the 90's, no less. That was my point about the personal protection orders.
The post office doesn't publish my ID.
| 7:35 pm on Jan 31, 2012 (gmt 0)|
So what precautions will be taken to ensure that all this data is kept confidential? How long will it be before there are DVDs circulating of hundreds of millions of names addresses and telephone numbers of domain name owners? Every day I get a mountain of junk mail that goes straight into a sack by the door, as well as a dozen or so junk telephone calls from people whose server tells them my computer is infected with a virus. How many more will I get when the ICANN database gets hacked?
I have no problem with letting a 100% secure entity have information it is entitled to. No entity is anything like so secure nowadays though. And why should I, as an Englishman, be happy to trust an American entity to safeguard my data when even our governments leak it like colanders?
And; have they really thought through the implications of demanding that hundreds of millions of people prove their IDs? People who may not speak English, even as a 2nd or 3rd language? What will they do when the lawsuits cascade down after domain names have been cancelled because ICANN are asking people to provide proof of ID which they may not wish to give? How many people in the world would be happy to provide an American company, directly or indirectly, with a copy of their passport, driving licence, whatever?
This whole thing is a can of worms. Opening it could cause some dreadful smells.
| 7:42 pm on Jan 31, 2012 (gmt 0)|
The referenced article above indicates there are TALKS in progress on how to implement and the governmental forces which are causing those talks to commence. I fully expect that privacy issues are under discussion. I also suspect that when completed, there will be a new fee structure to register domains that will cover those expenses (privacy, maintenance, etc.) and that might actually be a good thing... reduce the number of cheap domains and the entry bar to spammers just got raised.
| 7:54 pm on Jan 31, 2012 (gmt 0)|
|how long will it be before there are DVDs circulating of hundreds of millions of names addresses and telephone numbers of domain name owners? |
There already are. Have been for twenty years (well, not DVDs, but you know)
| 8:01 pm on Jan 31, 2012 (gmt 0)|
|There already are. Have been for twenty years (well, not DVDs, but you know) |
Yes, but 99% of the registrants are Disney characters :-)
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