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Domain "hijacked"
Mr_Q




msg:4029936
 8:31 am on Nov 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

Here's one of my current problems

Many years agon I have registered an excellent domain (*.com, German language relevant) with some "no name"-registrar.

Over the years I did not need that domain so whenever I received the renewal mails I just made the payment and did not bother.

Now I wanted to activate it and contacted the registrar.
Did not receive an answer.
Checked their website and saw that the last update is a "Special" dated back in 2005!

They operate under 4 different names (am not allowed to post these here) so I tried to contact all of them.
Again: No response.

Tried to initiate a transfer but found out that they have changed the registration to show themselves as admin-c instead of me (have screenshots that originally it was me and never agreed to such a change)

Since all attempts to contact them where to no avail, I finally filed a complaint with ICANN. After all, all registrars are only agents for ICANN and they are ultimately responsible.

They told me to contact the registrar in question.
(Which I had told them has not been successful - and I REALLY have tried!)
So they told me that they cant help me (in other words: they dont WANT to help me.)

Now I am thinking of bringing suit against ICANN.
Of course this will be a long and expensive venture but I really think it is time to make them live up to their obligation as the key authority for domain names.

Any insight/suggestions?

 

kaled




msg:4030244
 6:33 pm on Nov 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

If the registrar is based in your own country then, in the first instance, you should probably take action against the registrar not ICANN - this should be much simpler. By the sound of it, the domain does not have any great value, so a well-written letter (registered snail-mail) may be sufficient.

In the letter, you should concisely make your case (calmly, without any inflammatory language) issue a reasonable deadline (7-14 days) and state that you will take all necessary steps to recover your rightful property and pursue a formal complaint to ICANN.

Sneaky Trick
If you don't have a lawyer already, if possible choose a firm that includes your name (e.g. Smith) in their name (e.g. Smith Jones and Associates). This can introduce an extra psychological advantage by the possibility that your brother/father, etc is involved.

Kaled.

Mr_Q




msg:4030250
 6:47 pm on Nov 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

I: currently Spain
Them: Until recently: New Jersey / USA
......Now: Malaysia

Trust me, we are long since WAY past "polite letters".

And how can you judge the value of the domain?
Interesting.......

And even if it would be jadbcdauiewewydejw.com - whould that justify theft in your opinion. (I have to go back to U and ask my law professors if I have misunderstood something about the legal concept in general.)

Nope, I WILL hold ICANN liable, - and actually I am looking forward to drag their a**** into court. No more hiding, they'll have to face up to it.
What they are doing really is the master-concept of a rip-off scheme: They employ the services of agents to do the dirty-work for them, and when the sh*** hits the fan, they "calmly" claim, that it is none of their business.
But they DID take a portion of the fees over all these years? (and for the "accessory to crime" it does not matter how large their part was!)
I personally hate crooks
The bigger they are and the more they considder themseleves "untouchable" the better.
I have battled Budget Rent A Car very successfully
I have forces ebay europe to run for new quarters in Liechtenstein,
I have no problem to show ICANN that they DO have a responsibility. This can be done reasonably or in a court of law. Their choice.

man in poland




msg:4030280
 7:15 pm on Nov 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

Mr_Q

I think kaled has provided level-headed and sensible advice, and I think you should be grateful for it. However, it appears from your reply that you have already answered your own question, and that basically you want to sue their a***s off. I would kindly recommend that you either ask for advice in this thread, and be gentlemanly enough to acknowledge it with a brief thanks, or not bother to post at all if you are already decided on your course of action. This will save others the bother of preparing a considered reply.

kaled




msg:4030425
 10:12 pm on Nov 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

If the domain has no great value, it is likely that the registrar will not wish to enter into an argument that will cost money - that is the significance of the value. I deal only only in practicalities.

You may be angry, and you may have every right to be angry, however, your chances of winning some sort of ground-breaking legal case against ICANN are less than nil unless you have several million dollars at your disposal AND for whatever reason, ICANN decides to fight rather than help.

Also, if you use inflammatory language in correspondence, that will weaken your case significantly. By all means, live by the motto "don't get angry, get even" but you still have pay attention to the first part.

Kaled.

davezan




msg:4030827
 1:13 pm on Nov 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

ask my law professors if I have misunderstood something about the legal concept in general

While you're at that, ask them how contract law generally works too.

Good luck trying to hold someone liable who doesn't have any contract with you,
namely ICANN. More so when both of you are in two different jurisdictions.

David

Mr_Q




msg:4030849
 1:52 pm on Nov 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

Hi David!

R U sure you want to challenge me in a legal discussion?
:-)))

4yrInfo & for starters:
(a) Contractual relationships are not only constituted by and through a contract. They can easily be "just implied".
(b) Many companies are almost narcissistically in love with their own GT&C's. However, quoting a professor of mine: "GTC's are the corporate equivalent to children's letter to Santa Clause."
(c) If residing in different jurisdictions (providing both are subject to a "civilized litigation system") would pose a serious problem - how come we live in a globalized world?
You know: I could sue ICANN even in Somalia, believe it or not, Somalia and the US do have bilateral judicial agreements. Translates into: If I happen to reside in Somalia, and elect to sue ICANN in Somalia, I could enforce the verdict in the US.
Pls, if you feel better retaining your naivety - no objections; But that does not change the facts.

Other than that: I consider this thread "closed". Some replays suggest the poster has either not read or not comprehend my initial post - either way this makes a further discussion of this matter futile.
(=> I DID try (many, many times to contact the registrar)
(=> The domain in question IS VALUABLE)
(=> etc.)

davezan




msg:4030896
 3:10 pm on Nov 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

U sure you want to challenge me in a legal discussion?

I could, but that doesn't matter since: a) you first have to convince the judge
of your case, and b) if you'll be able to enforce that decision to a party who's
in a country that might/might not have a treaty with yours for a specific issue.
I'm sure the U.S. and Spain do, though I don't know how they'll treat this sort
of thing.

Besides, no one is arguing you made up your mind. Talk to a lawyer how to go
about this, and good for you if you're eventually proven right.

If it doesn't pan out, though, I hope you'll update this thread. In my six years
(and counting) of wasting time in online forums, I've yet to see anyone state if
they especially lost their dispute.

Not that anyone's expecting that, anyway. Do what you see fit, like we all do.

David

P.S. I agree with you a further discussion of this is futile.

Webwork




msg:4030905
 3:19 pm on Nov 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

This thread is now closed.

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