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This 39 message thread spans 2 pages: 39 ( [1] 2 > >     
First Ever Criminal Prosecution for Domain Name Theft Underway
Interesting Property Rights considerations
gpmgroup

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3964936 posted 9:36 pm on Aug 3, 2009 (gmt 0)

Arrested at his home in Union, New Jersey and charged in a landmark case, the first criminal arrest for domain name theft in the United States.

[domainnamenews.com...]

 

gpmgroup

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3964936 posted 12:02 am on Aug 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

New Jersey State Police official news release

[njsp.org...]

true_INFP

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3964936 posted 10:52 am on Aug 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

First Ever Criminal Prosecution for Domain Name Theft Underway

That's definitely not "the first ever". See e.g. the sex.com case.

(In New Jersey, it may be the first case.)

HuskyPup



 
Msg#: 3964936 posted 11:27 am on Aug 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

That's definitely not "the first ever".

Have you read the article and the supporting links etc?

true_INFP

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3964936 posted 12:58 pm on Aug 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

Have you read the article and the supporting links etc?

No, I haven't read the article. Why should I?

woop01

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3964936 posted 2:37 pm on Aug 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

The fact that specific case is mentioned numerous times in the article including the first sentence?

tim222

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3964936 posted 2:48 pm on Aug 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

Personally I'm glad the police are taking this seriously, but I think the more important issue is, what is GoDaddy doing about it? If my domains are stolen and I can prove it, does GoDaddy have a policy in place that allows me to quickly regain control of the names, even before it drags its way through court? These cases can take years to resolve. Meanwhile, the thief continues to earn revenue from the name. The thief controls the name and could deliberately (maliciously) cause harm to the name's reputation (like getting it banned in search engines). Will GoDaddy allow that to happen?

trinorthlighting

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3964936 posted 3:26 pm on Aug 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

Are people really this stupid and do not think they will be eventually caught?

travelin cat

WebmasterWorld Administrator travelin_cat us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3964936 posted 3:51 pm on Aug 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

Yes. Yes they are.

true_INFP

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3964936 posted 4:09 pm on Aug 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

The fact that specific case is mentioned numerous times in the article including the first sentence?

Are you talking to me? If you are: The article does not make the title of this thread correct. ("First Ever Criminal Prosecution for Domain Name Theft Underway" may be valid in New Jersey, but here it's misleading.)

gpmgroup

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3964936 posted 4:53 pm on Aug 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

Are you talking to me? If you are: The article does not make the title of this thread correct. ("First Ever Criminal Prosecution for Domain Name Theft Underway" may be valid in New Jersey, but here it's misleading.)

The Title of the thread is the title of the article. DomainNameNews has a contact address in IL not NJ. So why do you think this thread is misleading?

true_INFP

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3964936 posted 5:09 pm on Aug 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

The Title of the thread is the title of the article.

Imagine you visit this board and read the following:

"First Ever Criminal Prosecution for Domain Name Theft Underway"

Imagine that you don't have time to dig deeper. You just see the thread title and nothing more.

Imagine that you don't know anything about this stuff.

What will you think? That before this week or month, there had never been any criminal prosecution for domain name theft underway. You've been misled by the title (which should have included the name "New Jersey").

arieng

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3964936 posted 5:12 pm on Aug 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

The article does not make the title of this thread correct.

I'm pretty sure there was no criminal prosecution in the sex.com theft. It was a civil suit, right?

gpmgroup

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3964936 posted 5:24 pm on Aug 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

What will you think? That before this week or month, there had never been any criminal prosecution for domain name theft underway. You've been misled by the title (which should have included the name "New Jersey").

Can you give an example of an another [earlier] case?

Marcia

WebmasterWorld Senior Member marcia us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3964936 posted 5:29 pm on Aug 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

There's a big difference between a civil lawsuit and criminal prosecution.

Prosecution of the perpetrator is a criminal action, but a civil suit for negligence against the registrar with a security breach would be civil litigation matter.

the sex.com theft. It was a civil suit, right?

Here's an article about the Supreme Court decision [news.cnet.com] in the sex.com case. Damages awarded = civil ligation, not criminal prosecution.

Unless someone can provide a documented case precedent for legal prosecution for a domain issue, then it's "case closed".

Leosghost

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3964936 posted 5:45 pm on Aug 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

"rimshot" for the seniors

btw Marcia ..congrats on 12000 posts ..all great ..raises glass in respect :)

true_INFP

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3964936 posted 7:25 pm on Aug 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

I'm pretty sure there was no criminal prosecution in the sex.com theft. It was a civil suit, right?

Cohen, who had stolen sex.com, was arrested and spent some time in jail. (When arrest warrant was issued, he fled to Mexico. Then Mexicans caught him and handed him over to US authorities.) If that doesn't involve criminal prosecution in the US, I'm going to be surprised.

Can you give an example of an another [earlier] case?

I already have.

Leosghost

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3964936 posted 7:33 pm on Aug 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

If that doesn't involve criminal prosecution in the US

That is the arrest ..
The criminal prosecution of that case in the US was when ?

You presumbably have the dates to hand ..and maybe even a link ?

Arrest and criminal prosecution are two different animals ..as one of the mods this particular domain forum is very qualified to inform you ..

There are other mods and members in the legal professions ..should you need the distinction explaining further

true_INFP

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3964936 posted 7:44 pm on Aug 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

In the US, a person can be arrested and deported from another country back to the US even if it's just a civil (non-criminal) case?

He fled and was arrested in 2005/2006.

Marcia

WebmasterWorld Senior Member marcia us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3964936 posted 8:03 pm on Aug 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

Fine point, but a critical one:

The arrest warrant was a "bench warrant" for failure to appear for a mandated court appearance.

The warrant and arrest were not a direct consequence of the action with regard to the domain snatching itself. It was for a separate matter; he was not facing criminal prosecution for the domain name theft; the domain theft itself was being pursued for damages as a tort.

Here's the story [zdnetasia.com] and guess what? A bench warrant can be issued for failing to appear for a court date for a traffic ticket. Or even a parking ticket, if it gets to that point. It's been known to happen that folks have landed in jail eventually for failing to pay a parking ticket and then not appearing in court.

true_INFP

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3964936 posted 8:16 pm on Aug 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

So you're saying that, in the US, a fraud/theft causing $xx-million damages is not a criminal but a civil case? This is definitely a crime here in the EU.

woop01

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3964936 posted 8:20 pm on Aug 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

I don't know, I didn't look into the details of the case at all before forming an opinion on it. Why should I?

But seriously, there is a very distinct difference between a civil and a criminal prosecution in the United States. One famous example would be O.J. Simpson who was not found criminally guilty but did lose the civil wrongful death lawsuit. You don't do jail time for a civil case.

[edited by: woop01 at 8:22 pm (utc) on Aug. 4, 2009]

true_INFP

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3964936 posted 8:21 pm on Aug 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

Why should I?

Because you don't have time or assume the US has proper and effective legal system?

woop01

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3964936 posted 8:25 pm on Aug 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

I was editing as you were typing that. If you want to get into politics and debate of what you consider to be "proper and effective", I'm not sure this is the right board.

However, your lack of knowledge of the American legal system and reluctance to read the article you were commenting on doesn't make the thread title incorrect.

true_INFP

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3964936 posted 8:30 pm on Aug 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

Anyhow, in New Jersey, it is considered a crime.

woop01

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3964936 posted 8:44 pm on Aug 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

It would be considered a crime in a lot of places but unfortunately most places wonít prosecute anything related to online activity and will bend over backward to say itís not their jurisdiction.

Obviously a different case but a great example was a time I was being harassed by phone by a kid (I banned him from one of my sites for harassing users) in Houston while I was in San Antonio. The San Antonio police said I needed to call Houston police. The Houston police said I wasnít actually in Houston when I got the calls so it should be handled by San Antonio police. However, if I were to drive to Houston and get a call they could handle it. They finally suggested I get a police report from the San Antonio police and have them fax it and they might be able to do something. The San Antonio police refused to take a police report because the kid was making the calls from Houston.

From what Iíve heard, thatís typical of the kind of run around you get from authorities. They simply donít want to deal with it. New Jersey should be commended for actually stepping up and being willing to enforce the law. Itís just unfortunate that seeing a police task force do their job is out of the ordinary.

Webwork

WebmasterWorld Administrator webwork us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3964936 posted 8:54 pm on Aug 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

People can be hauled into jail/court against their will as a result of contempt orders (ex. - for failure to pay child support), body warrants (capias writs to prevent flight intended to avoid creditors), bench warrants for failure to appear at a hearing, post judgment creditor relief orders for failure to make discovery (disclose assets), etc.

Seizure of assets and/or the person, by force where necessary, IS necessary to give civil proceedings "teeth". The civil courts are civil until their civility is sorely tested. Then, like criminal courts, civil courts have the power of incarceration when necessary to enforce their authority.

Webwork, Esq.

Leosghost

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3964936 posted 9:17 pm on Aug 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

In the US, a person can be arrested and deported from another country back to the US even if it's just a civil (non-criminal) case?

He fled and was arrested in 2005/2006.

you're tap dancing ..you said "criminal prosecution"
gpmgroup

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3964936 posted 9:22 pm on Aug 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

So you're saying that, in the US, a fraud/theft causing $xx-million damages is not a criminal but a civil case? This is definitely a crime here in the EU.

Do you have an example from an EU jurisdiction where criminal proceedings have been instigated for the theft of a domain name?

Marcia

WebmasterWorld Senior Member marcia us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3964936 posted 11:25 pm on Aug 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

With all due respect to all concerned, can we get off the off topic bickering and get down to discussing the criminal charges, prosecution and possible conviction in THIS case, about THIS perpetrator, which is what THIS thread is about?

A conviction would definitely set an important precedent.

This 39 message thread spans 2 pages: 39 ( [1] 2 > >
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