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Profiting from NPOs? - PIR Increases .Org Registry Fee 10% Without Comment:
Public Interest Registry .Org Fee Increase Effective November 2008
encyclo




msg:3646797
 5:15 pm on May 10, 2008 (gmt 0)

From Associated Press [ap.google.com]:
Wholesale fees for Internet addresses ending in ".org" will increase 10 percent Nov. 9. (...) The increase brings the annual fee to $6.75. Last year, PIR imposed a 2.5 percent fee increase to $6.15. (...) PIR did not cite a reason in its letter.

See also the letter from pir.org to ICANN [icann.org] (PDF link).

 

Webwork




msg:3646945
 8:31 pm on May 10, 2008 (gmt 0)

The (10%) increase brings the annual fee to $6.75. Last year, PIR imposed a 2.5 percent fee increase. . PIR did not cite a reason in its letter.

My jaw dropped a bit when I read that PIR was raising its rates 10% and without comment. When PIR initially stuck to a 2.5% increase, versus the greater increases imposed by the .Com registry, I thought to myself"Ah, so PIR really are the good guys/gals and this reflects their philosophy in operation.

Now I have to wonder.

Where is the 10% increase going, PIR? Whose salary increase is this covering? How much has administrative overhead increased in the past year? How many new (friends and families) hires? How much has travel expense increased?

Maybe U.S./wealtier registrants are being asked to underwrite the loss/costs of .Org domains being sold in other markets/countries for a $1.00 registration fee? I'm a fan of good works, social justice and ability to pay economics, so an increase to "cover the income gap" - from discounted fees elsewhere - doesn't offend my sense of fairplay. I'm willing to contribute to help cover the gap so long as efforts are in place to make certain that discounted registrations aren't being exploited.

Still, I'd like to know.

OTOH, is it a bit telling when a "public interest" registry jacks up their charges 10% yet chooses to remain silent about the need to increase their revenue stream by millions of dollars?

What's up, PIR? Why the "no comment"? There's no comment on their website either. Nothing.

Why good guys one year and exceeding the increase of the .Com registry the next year?

Is this a "media play"? Submit for 10% and when there is the not-unexpected outcry about excessive increases play the good guy and only increase the fees by 7.5 or 5%?

I thought that technology keep driving down the cost of doing business on the web. More processing power for less money. Open source software. Decreased costs for bandwidth. Still, it seems the registries - despite increases in income from new registrations - need to dig even deeper into the pockets of registrants.

Monopoly and beauracracy at work here?

[edited by: Webwork at 8:49 pm (utc) on May 10, 2008]

encyclo




msg:3646997
 10:44 pm on May 10, 2008 (gmt 0)

If you had a contract with a client that allowed for you to increase your fees by 10% a year with no explanation and no risk of losing the contract, would you do it? ;)

As for the reasons why the increase, as PIR have declined to comment we can only make assumptions. My natural assumption is that they saw all the others with their snouts in the trough, and couldn't see any reason why they shouldn't add theirs. :)

trader




msg:3647084
 4:19 am on May 11, 2008 (gmt 0)

I am getting sick and tired of the ongoing increases by org com and net, especially non-profit org!

The high carrying cost is one of the reasons I am working on trimming my portfolio and letting many marginal or dubious value domains expire, and also sharply reducing new registrations.

This is a double impact negativity what with ongoing renewal fee increases combined with ongoing income declines, as experienced by many of us.

As a result, I am seriously thinking about reducing my portfolio by one-half from the current level of more than 3,000.

BTW, I heard Tucows offered to run the registries for less than $2 a name? Why did Icann not accept that offer?

...Maybe U.S./wealtier registrants are being asked to underwrite the loss/costs of .Org domains being sold in other markets/countries for a $1.00 registration fee?

Really, did not know that. What nations can reg them for $1? Maybe I will move there, or at least setup a foreign corp!

mjwalshe




msg:3647738
 9:23 am on May 12, 2008 (gmt 0)

so some low level Arbitrage MFA operators have a tiny increase in their costs awwwwh my heart bleeds for you.

The server faries dont come in the night and magicly work for free you know - running a registry is not that cheap an operation i know i used to be one of the owners of .coop

And org is not a charity

grelmar




msg:3647865
 1:45 pm on May 12, 2008 (gmt 0)

NPO's and NGO's have to pay a bit more for their internet registration?

Oh, waaaaaa....

If the United Way of Atlanta can pay its Chairman $446,000 per year, with a $106,000 per year pension plan and a $1.6 million golden parachute for, you know, quitting, (source [ajc.com]), I think they can pony up a couple of bucks for higher internet registry fees.

Sure, not every charity is as bloated, but you'd be stunned by how much money a lot of charities do make.

As for all the non-charities buying dot-orgs (myself included):
Suck it up, buttercup. Even when you add in hosting costs and other associated costs, domaining is still one of the cheapest business games to get into.

Where else can you start and run a business for less than $20/year and some personal time?

Webwork




msg:3647935
 3:23 pm on May 12, 2008 (gmt 0)

If the issue of PIR's increase was as inconsequential as "sixty cents" I wouldn't have given it thought worth $.02.

Relative to soaring gas/petrol prices most folks can handle a 10% or $.60+ raise this year. That's not what makes this news interesting and worthy of comment. Look a little deeper than the sixty cent price increase.

In a world where non-profits are expected to be accountable, and where Public Interest Registry is supposed leading the charge of NPOs into the digital era, isn't it interesting that PIR raises their monopolistic or "public utility" fee 10% without comment?

When is the last time a "public utility" raised its rate without close scrutiny, public comment, sound justification and necessity?

IF PIR and the .Org registry is supposedly the closest "web connector gTLD" that we have to a "public good, public utility" does anyone think that PIR ought to be leading the other gTLDs and ccTLDs by example?

While you are skimming the surface, pooh-poohing the 10% increase as "small change" try to remember that - within the past 18 months - the gTLD registries were talking about "value pricing" of domains, similar to the .TV registry that charges $$$$+ for their annual renewal of certain domains.

Should the registry that holds itself out as the public good registry engage in rate hikes without comment?

Maybe .Org's aura of goodness and its operators just showed their true colors?

[edited by: Webwork at 3:42 pm (utc) on May 12, 2008]

jhitchco




msg:3648132
 7:13 pm on May 12, 2008 (gmt 0)

ORG is a gTLD just like any other TLD (com, net, info, biz). While you may think that the registry is for not-for-profits, that is just false. Org has never had a charter or a restriction like that.

As an operator of DNS for several TLDs, costs have been going up. There are simply more users for the same domain name.

I doubt that the 60 cents is going to make a tangible difference to any business for anyone but a portfolio holder. Even if the organization has several domains that it routinely uses.

trader




msg:3648163
 7:42 pm on May 12, 2008 (gmt 0)

It has been said that Tucows/OpenSRS stated they can run the registries for less than $2 a name (and had offered to do that from what I understand). Over the years, overall internet costs should be going down (certainly not up) for online services and computer related commerce, and running a registry.

P.S. To be frank, I am really surprised to see you 3 members seemingly in support of the high PIR fee increases done without even bothering with a press release or any reasons given. The support PIR is seemingly getting here is both amazing and also very disturbing and has me concerned about the value of the member feedback validity and quality in this forum.

BTW, being an operator of 700 .org domains/websites (and a long time early supporter of dot-orgs, even years ago when org was not nearly as popular as it is today) the 10% price jump is significant, especially combined with likely future increases too.

jcoronella




msg:3648220
 8:34 pm on May 12, 2008 (gmt 0)

>> high carrying cost ... letting ... dubious value domains expire

'nuff said. I doubt nature.org really cares.

Maybe the owners of naturee.org, natures.org, ature.org, nnature.org, naturee.org, nautre.org, or natuer.org would.

Still, it would be nice to think that PIR is doing it for those altruistic reasons, the reality is most likely more along the lines of what Webwork suggests

trader




msg:3648222
 8:36 pm on May 12, 2008 (gmt 0)

Odd why PIR increases seem to be approved by some members. A reason for it which comes to mind first is they are probably anti-domainers.

[edited by: trader at 8:44 pm (utc) on May 12, 2008]

jcoronella




msg:3648231
 8:41 pm on May 12, 2008 (gmt 0)

Well, if you are going to infer my support, perhaps you should infer the reason.

jcoronella




msg:3648236
 8:46 pm on May 12, 2008 (gmt 0)

I don't like to call myself a 'domainer'... I prefer the term 'domain speculator'.

trader




msg:3648248
 8:51 pm on May 12, 2008 (gmt 0)

Some domainers are developers too, and get domains for development and not only speculation. Personally I have sold less than 1% of all my domains.

swa66




msg:3648290
 9:36 pm on May 12, 2008 (gmt 0)

So the registrars need to pay a few more cents per domain. How much of that is actually going to be passed on to the user of the domainname ?

For the rest: proof your claims!
E.g.:
Org domains being sold in other markets/countries for a $1.00 registration fee

Facts please: what registrar is operating a .org registry for $1.00 only available to customers from what country ?
If you can;t provide the details then don't post such nonsense.

Complaining about non-profits: they 'll be able to deal with the 60 cent increase for their domain, no worries.

If you hold a few thousand domainnames and call yourselves traders/speculators/dmainers/whatever: well you're obviously hoping for a huge profit in the end and 60 cent per domainname per year will not hurt your bottom line so much that you need to blame all those who don't share your vision of doom.

Well if you think I'm against domainers: you bet: I'd rather have a domainname for a project available than you making profit by keepingit occupied without anybody having any use from it.

trader




msg:3648395
 12:12 am on May 13, 2008 (gmt 0)

I really can not believe all the animosity toward domainers at this forum! What is wrong with making money in domains vs how others make money? It almost seem like Communism for you guys to be opposed to some ways people try to make profits on the web, which are perfectly legal and a valid business.

I have been posting a lot at all the domain boards for years but recently basically left them all for personal reasons (including wasting too much time) and dealing with poorly informed, newbies and rude people who enjoy flaming at those other forums (which are also not as closely moderated vs here).

Instead, I happily migrated here and participated much more than in the past. A place where I hoped to combine domains with webmaster stuff and coding issues too (since I am also a developer), which this board has always been superb with.

Now I find myself deeply saddened that so many of you would rather see PIR increase everyones fees so much without a valid reason, and they being so uncaring and unaccountable that they do not even bother to explain why. This is indeed a sad day as I now can see my time is wasted here, barring any sudden new developments in this upsetting thread.

Is it any wonder the registries can get away with fee increases what with so many people on the web not caring and even supporting them!

So the registrars need to pay a few more cents per domain. How much of that is actually going to be passed on to the user of the domainname ?
For the rest: proof your claims!
E.g.: Org domains being sold in other markets/countries for a $1.00 registration fee

Facts please: what registrar is operating a .org registry for $1.00 only available to customers from what country ?
If you can;t provide the details then don't post such nonsense.

Complaining about non-profits: they 'll be able to deal with the 60 cent increase for their domain, no worries.

If you hold a few thousand domainnames and call yourselves traders/speculators/dmainers/whatever: well you're obviously hoping for a huge profit in the end and 60 cent per domainname per year will not hurt your bottom line so much that you need to blame all those who don't share your vision of doom.

Well if you think I'm against domainers: you bet: I'd rather have a domainname for a project available than you making profit by keepingit occupied without anybody having any use from it.


jhitchco




msg:3648460
 1:32 am on May 13, 2008 (gmt 0)

I am in no way against domainers. I will say again that the basic costs of operating the registry have gone up. If twice as many people access dyndns.org because there are twice as many Internet users then shouldn't the price go up? Yes there are some economies of scale but costs like bandwidth and server hardware do not become 0.

For the $1.00 domains, the registrar is selling those at a loss with the hope of obtaining other services. PIR charges what is charges for domains and it's dictated by its relationship with ICANN.

Webwork




msg:3648497
 2:26 am on May 13, 2008 (gmt 0)

Facts please

International Advantage Program (IAP) [pir.org]

This is a great opportunity to increase Domain Registrations in non-US markets and take advantage of the growth in demand in the areas of the world where the Internet (and associated services) is growing the most. The .ORG Registry is providing its sales channel a huge price incentive to do just that.

The IAP provides an effective 75% discount off of the wholesale price of new .ORG registrations for registrations in eligible countries made between 01 September 2007 and 31 December 2007.

Swa-dah! :-P

swa66




msg:3649338
 1:25 am on May 14, 2008 (gmt 0)

That's not a discount to the end-users! Even with a 75% discount towards the registrars, that's still not an offer of $1 per domain limited to certain countries.

trader




msg:3649462
 6:25 am on May 14, 2008 (gmt 0)

In addition to my being really surprised how anti-domainer and pro-registry so many members appear to be I am also surprised how Webwork is being questioned so much about the $1 issue.

IMO, (if there was not a specific $1 promo he did not quote from or locate) he could have been simply rounding the price off to a dollar (or said $1 as a figure of speech) based on normal wholesale cost at the time of $6.15, which 75% discount equals a cost of $1.54.

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