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Have to Vent
Stupid registrar...
Philosopher

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3482233 posted 7:48 pm on Oct 19, 2007 (gmt 0)

So..like many here, I've got a fairly large portfolio of domains. Of course, I set all my domains to auto-renew and "locked" status so that I don't lose any domains accidentally.

Well, I'm logging into some domains today to make some updates and find one of my ftp logins not working. Hmm...odd.

I try and pull up the site...yep...it's no longer my site. What? Pull up records...yep...it was renewed. Pull up the whois..nope...not me.

Start going through other domains at this registrar...5 total domains are no longer registered to me.

Call the registrar. Put on hold for 30 minutes because of "higher than normal call volume". Finally get someone. 35 minutes later (yes 65 minutes on the phone so far), I get the floor manager on the phone.

He proceeds to tell me, "Yep, you were charged for the renewals, but some how they slipped through the system and weren't actually renewed"

Wha?

Him - "Yes...it happens sometimes".

Me - "Uhhh..I have a few hundred domains across 5 registrars and in 10 years it's NEVER happened until now"

Him - "Well, I can refund you the renewal fees, or give you free registrations on new domains".

Me - "Why would I want to register more domains with you and risk losing those too? Are you also going to refund me the lost revenue and lost promotion expenses that went into those domains?"

Him "......"

Me - "Refund the renewal fee and unlock the rest of my domains...I'll be transferring them momentarily".

What an absolute pisser!

I'd love to give the registrar name, but due to TOS, I won't.

I wish there was some type of recourse, oh well. I had to vent.

Stupid registrar...

 

Webwork

WebmasterWorld Administrator webwork us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3482233 posted 7:51 pm on Oct 19, 2007 (gmt 0)

Feel better now? ;-P

Major, unsettling, unbelievable stupidity and/or neglect. The only remedy - only - is to get the domains back.

How on earth did they escape without an email and transfer notice to you?

Philosopher

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3482233 posted 8:00 pm on Oct 19, 2007 (gmt 0)

Very good question.

The last email I have from the registrar for each of the 5 domains was about 4 months ago saying "Your domain name(s) will expire in 5 days. Your domain is set to automatically renew unless you cancel it..."

Of course, I didn't cancel it and was charged for the renewal.

That was the LAST email from the registrar.

They charged me, but somehow didn't renew it and I didn't get anymore emails. I'm guessing their system screwed up and logged it as renewed since I had payed even though it wasn't and it eventually was released.

Stupid...Stupid Registrar

buckworks

WebmasterWorld Administrator buckworks us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3482233 posted 8:09 pm on Oct 19, 2007 (gmt 0)

I have all my domains set for automatic renewal but I like to go and renew them "by hand" well in advance of the renewal date, so there's lots of time to make sure all is well.

Philosopher's experience shows that I'm not paranoid for thinking that way.

:(

Webwork

WebmasterWorld Administrator webwork us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3482233 posted 8:31 pm on Oct 19, 2007 (gmt 0)

Do you have a charge record on your credit card statement that corresponds to the dates?

Something seems a bit wrong, as if they may have presented the bill for payment but it was rejected.

Philosopher

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3482233 posted 8:47 pm on Oct 19, 2007 (gmt 0)

As mentioned in the original post, THEY even showed that I had paid, but "somehow" the domains simply weren't renewed.

However, just to be absolutely sure, I did go through my CC statement.

3 domains were set to be autorenewed on the 19th of June - my statement doesn't show anything on the 19th, but it does show charges from them for renewals on both the 18th and 20th (I have a number of my domains that renew around June and July).

2 domains were set to be autorenewed on the 28th of June. My statement shows charges totaling 5 domain renewals from them on that date.

[edited by: Philosopher at 8:48 pm (utc) on Oct. 19, 2007]

Webwork

WebmasterWorld Administrator webwork us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3482233 posted 9:19 pm on Oct 19, 2007 (gmt 0)

Okay. The reason for me asking was to close all the windows and doors.

Alrighty, now, next up. Are you saying that their system never generated email notices that the domains were being deleted or in the delete cycle?

I'm perplexed.

If the charge went through then any system worth a damn would have sent a confirmation notice. I'll assume their system did this.

However, assuming "Routine A" of their management system sent such a confirmation, "Routine B" - their system for notifying folks that their domain has "expired", etc. - didn't send out any notices?

"It just happens"?

Please respond to my sticky. "It just happens" doesn't cut it. This may be a case for putting aside the rulebook as "it just happens" - as both a "mentality" and "a fact" (in their system) - is just so very wrong and such a threat to other folks that it may be appropriate under this very specific facts and circumstances to sound an alarm.

IF the domains have value to you then they should consider seeking to reacquire them in the aftermarket at their expense.

IF the domains have any value I'd also like to know if there's any sign or symptom that someone friendly to the company ended up with the domains.

Are the domains in the hands of the "tasters"?

[edited by: Webwork at 9:23 pm (utc) on Oct. 19, 2007]

Philosopher

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3482233 posted 9:49 pm on Oct 19, 2007 (gmt 0)

Well I went back through my emails for the domains with this registrar that didn't get dumped. All of those domains got the original email saying they were about to be auto-renewed, then got another email on the date they were renewed.

The 5 domains that didn't get renewed properly didn't receive the "successful renewal email".

I guess that much is my fault for not catching that I didn't get the confirmation email, but since the proper charges were there it's easy to overlook not having received an email.

As to the 5 domains. Luckily, they aren't incredibly valuable. They are a part of my promotional platform. The value is really in the work put into them up to this point and the time it has taken.

All 5 sites are parked. 3 of them with Google, the other 2 with two different parking systems.

4 of the sites are using private whois, one of them is not.

davezan

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3482233 posted 1:26 am on Oct 20, 2007 (gmt 0)

IF the domains have value to you then they should consider seeking to reacquire them in the aftermarket at their expense.

Personally I've yet to see any registrar do that arising from this circumstance.
And from what Philosopher eventually posted, the chances of acquiring them
are almost nil. (except maybe the one whose WHOIS isn't hidden...)

Unfortunately I have to agree that "it does happen". I've personally handled a
few of those, and not once did I relish telling the person "sorry" for those we
weren't able to recover on time.

Definitely unlock the remaining and tell them to refund the fees if they aren't
willing to do that for you.

David

gpmgroup

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3482233 posted 10:28 am on Oct 20, 2007 (gmt 0)

I wonder if ICANN should mandate a change of Nameservers upon expiry that would at least give site owners a chance to see their site was not resolving and then 35 days to fix it before the domains go into the drop cycle?

vincevincevince

WebmasterWorld Senior Member vincevincevince us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3482233 posted 10:35 am on Oct 20, 2007 (gmt 0)

The other alternative is to go in and renew for multiple years at one time. Given the way prices keep going up, that might be a good idea for more than one reason.

I just hope that this domain wasn't particularly important to you, Philosopher.

Winooski

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3482233 posted 4:21 am on Oct 30, 2007 (gmt 0)

This may be a case for putting aside the rulebook as "it just happens" - as both a "mentality" and "a fact" (in their system) - is just so very wrong and such a threat to other folks that it may be appropriate under this very specific facts and circumstances to sound an alarm.

Webwork, any updates as to whether the circumstances around this alleged nonfeasance are sufficient to get Philosopher to share the registrar's identity with the rest of us?

[edited by: Winooski at 4:21 am (utc) on Oct. 30, 2007]

Webwork

WebmasterWorld Administrator webwork us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3482233 posted 12:32 pm on Oct 30, 2007 (gmt 0)

The 5 domains that didn't get renewed properly didn't receive the "successful renewal email". . . . I guess that much is my fault for not catching that I didn't get the confirmation email, but since the proper charges were there it's easy to overlook not having received an email.

Since Philosopher candidly acknowledged receiving "some signal" of non-renewal from the registrar we're not going to delve into this further. If you have particular concerns I suspect Philosopher wouldn't mind further inquiry by sticky.

I might think differently about naming names if 3 or 4 longer standing members said they suffered a similar fate recently.

g1smd

WebmasterWorld Senior Member g1smd us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3482233 posted 2:36 pm on Oct 30, 2007 (gmt 0)

Any hint as to what sort of domain it was?

A .com, country specific, or one of the newer TLDs?

bwnbwn

WebmasterWorld Senior Member bwnbwn us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3482233 posted 9:01 pm on Oct 30, 2007 (gmt 0)

This is a perfect example of us taking the system for granted and not following up with checking to make sure it isn't broke. Who in this business hasn't had something break.

I know he has hundreds of domains but it doesn't take long to check for an expiring domain and make sure it was registered properly, as it is guys the domain name is your business.

I feel for Philosopher but he and most of us are just to busy to do our work properly and stuff like this happens in the electronic world we live in.

What have I learned from this....Never trust the system to work always always verify...

Bet ya next time he makes sure they are registered and paid for.

Heck Philosopher this just may have saved one of those valuable domains from winding up in someones elses hands...Cuz I am pretty sure you will verify the register from now own...

PS I would have ranted as well. Lesson learned Vegas is getting close. I am as well glad it wasn't a valuable one because it would have been a nightmare....

Philosopher

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3482233 posted 9:25 pm on Oct 30, 2007 (gmt 0)

Any hint as to what sort of domain it was?

They were .com and .net

Yeah, definitely a lesson learned and another reason to have a secretary to take care of the "little things" that often get overlooked.

I will state that I still don't feel like I got "some signal" of non-renewal (sorry WW). Instead I'd call it a "lack of signal" of a successful renewal which to me is quite different.

As mentioned, with those domains, the LAST email I got stated that they were expiring in 5 days. If I had EVER received an email saying they had passed their renewal date (which is something registrars "always" do)then I certainly WOULD have done something as I would have known something was wrong.

Oh well...sh*t happens....stupid registrar.

g1smd

WebmasterWorld Senior Member g1smd us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3482233 posted 12:49 am on Oct 31, 2007 (gmt 0)

Heh, Microsoft forgot to renew their domain a few years back.

Not sure if that makes you feel better, or worse.

buckworks

WebmasterWorld Administrator buckworks us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3482233 posted 1:44 pm on Oct 31, 2007 (gmt 0)

I think the most important thing to learn from this thread is to be religious about renewing your domain registrations well in advance of the expiry date so there's time to take corrective action if all is not well.

DO NOT depend exclusively on automatic renewals for managing your domain portfolio, no matter who your registrar is.

That advice is equally important in light of various threads about leaving your online empire well enough organized that your executors could arrange for someone else to take over if something happened to you.

Registrar glitches are a possibility, but death is a certainty. Keep your domains registered far enough into the future so that if something happened to you, your executors would have ample time to figure out what to do.

rise2it

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3482233 posted 4:28 pm on Dec 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

Exact same thing just happened to me, and based on the customer service experience, I'm betting it was the same company.

It's really a shame that we can't post them here, not just for a 'revenge' factor, but to protect our fellow members from risking their domains also...

In my case - it was a 2 word dot.com, purchased in 2003, let them register and host it. Emails letting me know everything went fine each step of the way (we'll be charging you, you've been charged, etc.).

This IS a major player in the industry.

Looked at their agreement (which I'm sure is the same with any of these hosts), and your agreement is basically that they are liable for nothing that goes wrong, or any mistakes they make.

PM me if ya want the name...

Webwork

WebmasterWorld Administrator webwork us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3482233 posted 5:39 pm on Dec 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

For now let's bend the rules a little bit and go with the "PM me" approach for anyone who is concerned.

Answer me 1 question: In what country is the registrar based? The U.S.A.?

Okay, a second question, but we'll call it quits here: Is this registrar a reseller for a parent company?

Sorry if these 2 questions have already been answered. I'm a bit busy as I get ready to head off to Vegas.

rocknbil

WebmasterWorld Senior Member rocknbil us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3482233 posted 6:02 pm on Dec 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

Count me in, this is a travesty, while I agree it's our call to cross all T's and dot all I's, when they charge you money you should receive a service.

Philosopher

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3482233 posted 7:10 pm on Dec 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

Answers:

Are they in the U.S.A.? Yes
Are they a reseller? Yes, they are a reseller for Tucows

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