| 3:52 pm on Jun 4, 2007 (gmt 0)|
|Which would you choose? While I could make an argument for widgetinfo.com, I tend toward widget.info. |
Me personally? Of course I'd choose the widgetinfo.com version. But, that's just me. I'm not going to choose a domain name if I can't get the .com version. I know from experience how much mistyped traffic the .com version is going to get. Nope, don't want to do that.
Now, if I had the .com version and I was a stickler for gTLD specifications and had a information site, then yes, .info would be the way to go with a 301 set up for the .com version.
|The days of .com dominance are almost over :) |
Not hardly. We're just catching our breath and entering round three.
|Its okay if the forums are filled with folk who are .com fans, afterall, its the dominant extension in the dominant internet market, the us, right now. |
It always has been and most likely always will be. .com is the Beverly Hills of gTLDs.
|But, every where else in the world, local tlds have rising importance. |
Big difference between a ccTLD and a gTLD. A ccTLD is the .com regional equivalent and is pretty much mandatory these days if you are doing business in that particular country.
ccTLD = Country Coded Top-Level Domain
gTLD = Generic Top-Level Domain
| 4:36 pm on Jun 4, 2007 (gmt 0)|
yes, but perhaps the USA only stamp is imprinting itself on .com,
"Beverley hills" singularly appropriate analogy would't you say,
Beverley hills means a lot in California, most of the USA, but as you go further out, well its just somewhere a lot of American Film stars live,
Right now, i think the residual power of .com stands on the power of multinations using .com, but you see, i think increasing worldwide internet literacy will soon blurr that advantage
| 5:02 pm on Jun 4, 2007 (gmt 0)|
I checked out the Alexa top 500 recently. .com dominates the first 100 places. Beyond that, there are .nets and other extensions, but the interesting thing was that these seemed to be in asia and other non-american locations.
The dominance of .com in the top 500 is largely historical, with the positions now locked in.
So that made me wonder if .com really is just an American thing.
And the Beverley Hills analogy is good, as centime noted:
|as you go further out, well its just somewhere a lot of American Film stars live |
I can absolutely vouch for that here in the South. Beverley Hills is just some place that gets mentioned on the news occasionally.
For people with little or no tech literacy, if it's on the internet it's not .com. People who spend a lot of time online such as those here at ww don't have that attitude. I wonder if that's an indicator of the future? As the population becomes more familiar with the internet and how it works, the simplistic .com prejudice is likely to fade.
| 12:28 am on Jun 5, 2007 (gmt 0)|
My main earner is a .info.
On the face it purports to give information but in truth its hard sell. Works a treat.
| 2:24 pm on Jun 5, 2007 (gmt 0)|
I can think of at least two national tourist offices that use .info domains. Both already had .com domains when they decided to use .info. Of course, based on past experience, they'll probably switch to .travel next year and forget to do redirects. :-)
| 2:27 pm on Jun 5, 2007 (gmt 0)|
|suppose you wanted to build a widget information site, and you can't get widget.com, but you own both widget.info and widgetinfo.com. Which would you choose? |
widgetinfo.com, without even a thought.
I suppose it depends on what you're going to do with it - if you're just going to use it as a destination url or landing page, that might be a reason to go outside of .com. But I tell all my clients who are establishing a brand to ONLY choose .com names. That's the default, and I don't care how many TLDs they add to the mix, I'm reasonably sure it will remain the default. If they remember your domain name at all, nine times out of ten they'll assume it's a dot com. The tenth case being del.icio.us and a maybe a couple others.
(and I'm stuck with a .org for my signature domain because I was silly enough to take it out back when .org really meant what it was intended for, and some broker wants $1300 for the .com version)
| 2:44 pm on Jun 5, 2007 (gmt 0)|
Ha, for me widget.info without even a thought:-)
|If they remember your domain name at all, nine times out of ten they'll assume it's a dot com. The tenth case being del.icio.us and a maybe a couple others. |
Maybe so if one is in the USA however the Internet world exists outside of there and according to statistics released this week Europe's Internet audience is as big as the USA, now include all the other countries and what do we have, an enormous market that may not depend on US traffic whatsover.
The del.icio.us example is interesting since it now presumes that Internet users are sophisticated enough to understand that other combinations are easily usable.
I have to add that in my 15 years domaining experience that our most commercially successful sites are those perceived to be emanating directly from the supplying country such as .cn, .in, .it etc.
The user considers this is the direct link to their supply source and mostly these days many of our international customers bypass the .com site and go direct to these sites. They are our sites seeing the largest growth in traffic, not the .com.
Obviously this applies to a specifically international base, your mileage may vary!
| 2:53 pm on Jun 5, 2007 (gmt 0)|
|Big difference between a ccTLD and a gTLD. A ccTLD is the .com regional equivalent and is pretty much mandatory these days if you are doing business in that particular country. |
|ccTLD = Country Coded Top-Level Domain |
gTLD = Generic Top-Level Domain
ccTLDs are really a separate discussion in itself. The .info falls under the gTLD classification.
If you do business in a particular country, it is mandatory that you have the ccTLD.
The biggest problem many have, and will run into with gTLDs (and even ccTLDs), is that the .com version is taken and there "will always be" a percentage of users who try the .com first, its a given. There is a whole generation out there of .com'ers and that is all they know.
Another issue with gTLDs is copyright violation.
| 3:02 pm on Jun 5, 2007 (gmt 0)|
Would you agree with the following list as to the value of tld's (for a generic commercial website) .com
country level: .us / .co.uk / .fr / .de
.info / .biz
... the rest
| 3:15 pm on Jun 5, 2007 (gmt 0)|
I think the fact that you can purchase info domains now for 99 cents is a message in itself. It certainly indicates the demand isn't very high.
Whether or not it is a statement of value is up for debate.
| 3:16 pm on Jun 5, 2007 (gmt 0)|
|Would you agree with the following list as to the value of tld's (for a generic commercial website) |
My list would look like this...
- gTLD: .com
- gTLD: .net
- gTLD: .org
- ccTLD: .us/.co.uk/.fr/.de
I don't go any further than that. In the 10+ years I've been in this industry, I've never launched a site under anything other than the above (with the exception of .gov and .edu).
I suggest to my clients that they purchase all "popular extensions" of their domain for "protective purposes".
There are too many litigation risks involved when purchasing a domain under another gTLD when the .com is taken (in the US).
|I think the fact that you can purchase info domains now for 99 cents is a message in itself. |
When .info first came out, my Registrar gave you the .info version of each domain you registered for free. I've let all but one or two of those expire.
| 5:17 pm on Jun 5, 2007 (gmt 0)|
|I don't go any further than that. In the 10+ years I've been in this industry, I've never launched a site under anything other than the above (with the exception of .gov and .edu). |
Therefore does one assume that you and the businesses you do the work for only trade within the US market?
That would make sense however there is a fast growing Internet world out there, not that YPN would recognise but that's another subject altogether!
Anyone care to take any bets what will be top dog in 10 years time?
| 5:20 pm on Jun 5, 2007 (gmt 0)|
|Therefore does one assume that you and the businesses you do the work for only trade within the US market? |
90% of the time, yes.
But, that only applies in a ccTLD instance. Again, we are talking about gTLDs which are Generic...
IANA - Generic Top-Level Domains
|Anyone care to take any bets what will be top dog in 10 years time? |
| 6:18 pm on Jun 5, 2007 (gmt 0)|
|Anyone care to take any bets what will be top dog in 10 years time? |
LOL, I knew that was coming:-)
So do you base this on the premise that the USA will be acting as sales agents for the mighty Chinese and Indian factories?
I'll make my bet and, fairly obviously, I'm going for either .cn and .com.cn or .in and .co.in.
| 6:39 pm on Jun 5, 2007 (gmt 0)|
10 years hmmm thats like 70 years of development in the real world...
No 1 .com
No 2 .info
Why will .info pass all the others?
Simply because most people go to the internet to find infomation even when they are looking to make a purchase.
If you can satisfy that need your in a great position to steal the sale ;) and save the user time too :)
| 6:47 pm on Jun 5, 2007 (gmt 0)|
|Why will .info pass all the others? |
There are twenty (20) gTLDs. Sixteen (16) of which are available through competitive Registrars. The other 4 are .gov, .edu, .mil and .int which are governed by sole entities and not available to the general public.
I don't know where I've been, but I can't remember the last time I even linked to a .info site? Maybe its this subconscious thing and I avoid them unintentionally?
| 6:57 pm on Jun 5, 2007 (gmt 0)|
It amazes me how many people search for black and white absolutes in our world of grey.
"Directory listings are great."
"Directory listings are useless."
"Reciprocal links are in/out/shake it all about."
".Info domains are rubbish."
Truth be told (and as always) it depends.
Would I buy cheaphotelsinelbonia.info? Probably never. Would I buy elbonia.info? Probably, if I could get it at a reasonable price. (I noticed recently that a US state .info was selling as a bundle with .biz at over $5,000.)
Would I buy smalldanglywidget.info? No. Would I buy widget.info? I've bought just those types of domains for the development of good information sites.
| 7:20 pm on Jun 5, 2007 (gmt 0)|
|It amazes me how many people search for black and white absolutes in our world of grey. |
No, its just me, the Tin Man. ;)
| 7:43 pm on Jun 5, 2007 (gmt 0)|
If you only had a heart...;)
As a matter of interest I just checked up on one developed .info site following the comment about not linking to them, and it has a number of one-way links from some places that I would be only too pleased to see on a few of my .com domains.
| 7:49 pm on Jun 5, 2007 (gmt 0)|
|As a matter of interest I just checked up on one developed .info site following the comment about not linking to them. |
There are always exceptions to the rule in all TLDs. Come on now. One site isn't a large enough data set to determine the value of the .info TLD. :)
| 8:00 pm on Jun 5, 2007 (gmt 0)|
|Come on now. One site isn't a large enough data set to determine the value of the .info TLD. |
I wasn't trying to prove the weight of what you seem to assume with that comment. It was more of a throwaway observation after your comment about not being able to remember linking to an .info.
(And one could equally well reply that one person's opinion about linking isn't a large enough data set to determine the lack of value of the .info TLD.)
But the reason for commenting here is the sweeping generalisations that seem to be thrown around WebmasterWorld these days.
If I was looking for a memorable domain in an area where most .coms and local domains had been taken a dictionary keyword .info might well deserve consideration. The mileage of other people obviously varies quite considerably.
| 8:07 pm on Jun 5, 2007 (gmt 0)|
|If I was looking for a memorable domain in an area where most .coms and local domains had been taken a dictionary keyword .info might well deserve consideration. |
stever, I won't argue with you on that one. I too might consider it. But, there's a whole lot of research to do prior to purchasing. There's a reason the other gTLDs are taken, now I need to find out why and what toes I'm going to be stepping on.
|Sweeping generalizations... |
Nah, this is just one man's opinion (me), there's nothing sweeping about it. Some will agree, some won't. And then, some are on the fence.
| 8:37 pm on Jun 5, 2007 (gmt 0)|
|There's a reason the other gTLDs are taken, now I need to find out why and what toes I'm going to be stepping on. |
Well, of course, but with the current state of domaining a good proportion of the .coms will be parked with PPC ads on them.
So if your .info site is ranking you may even become attractive to those .com owners...
| 8:43 pm on Jun 5, 2007 (gmt 0)|
|Nah, this is just one man's opinion (me) |
Nah, it's pretty much my opinion too. Of course, I own an ISP. I have to look at domains from an email point of view, and from that email point of view, .biz and .info are a scourge. Sure, more spam comes through from .com domains, but as a percentage - if I could block those two from touching my servers, I would. But since I have clients who may or may not do business with them, I can't.
| 8:49 pm on Jun 5, 2007 (gmt 0)|
In reference to ccTLDs, there are a whole group of ccTLDs that you want to stay away from...
|I'm going for either .cn and .com.cn or .in and .co.in. |
.cn is on that list with an 18% Phishing rate. Nope, me thinks the .cn is not going to be the next big one in 10 years. :)
| 10:05 pm on Jun 5, 2007 (gmt 0)|
i just set up a .info site.
i'll get back to you when i reach 15k/month milestone. should be within the next 45 days.
| 11:35 pm on Jun 5, 2007 (gmt 0)|
|.cn is on that list with an 18% Phishing rate. |
And there's probably more spam from .com's? :-)) Does that tar all of us with the same brush?
|10 years hmmm thats like 70 years of development in the real world... |
And how long's the .com "boom" been going for? The precursor was the introduction of WIN95 with the rise really gaining momentum during 97/98.
The bust was 14th March 2000, I remember that well, it was my birthday! Therefore realistically for many they have already had their first 10 years of WWW history.
Good names are hard to come by and many countries are opening up their names for all to purchase plus it is not that difficult to make a non .com name rank highly.
What many in these forums forget is that a lot of these name purchases are not by domainers or webmasters, they are by legitimate trading businesses who want to get on with their reality, not our theorising!
Personally I like .info, you don't have to:-)
| 12:35 am on Jun 6, 2007 (gmt 0)|
> "Money.info for $22K? Geesh, if I was aware of that I me yours truly would have bought it. Unbelievable. "
Funny because I talked to this guy and had the opportunity to buy this one for even less than that 2 years ago. ;-)
..I dunno, I was of the hope and mind that all this talk about the other domains comig into their own 3-4 years ago and bought a ton of solid .us domains as a result. But since that time, it seems like all those extra domains have just created noise which has made the .coms even more valuable. Its sad but it seems to me everyone has decided .com is it!
I agree this isn't logically sensible ... but neither was myspace to me at first either. Sometimes human psychology is less apparent than structural logic such as TLDs. Why do people buy jeans for $200 a pair or some girls buy those stupid handbads for $2000? There's not apparent structural logic in that either.
| 1:55 am on Jun 6, 2007 (gmt 0)|
Re: .com is US specific.
I don't own a registrar but it's a safe bet to assume that a large percentage of .com registrations are international.
|and from that email point of view, .biz and .info are a scourge. |
I think this is an important point. It's not just professional webmasters that get a bad view of cheap TLDs, people remember the spam they delete given enough repetitions.
It's also probably fair to say that people remember, again given enough impressions, the extensions of domains they reach through search results only to find no valuable information. Not true in all cases of course but I think steriotypes are worth considering when you're buying your brand name.
From my personal surfing experience I remember that .info and .biz domains started "feeling" like the garish neon of domains shortly after they came out.
And finally, the domain for one of my first websites, back in 1998 I think it was, was a .net because the .com was taken. Countless times people have written to ask why my site "website.com" didn't have any information on it.
It happens often enough that the owner of the .com in question has refused my offers to buy the domain and has instead set it up as a PPC portal targeting keywords specific to the content my .net.
Not a big deal, the site isn't all that important to me, but it's an interesting case study. IMO .com is well established as the defacto domain extension on the minds of the general public.
I'm not saying that .info has no value, on the contrary I have no doubt that the value of all TLDs will increase as time goes on, just responding to some specific points.
| 3:14 am on Jun 6, 2007 (gmt 0)|
You can buy beach front property in Baja mexico for 1/5 the price of land that looks identical in Sa Diego just 10 miles away. Probably a good analog for comparison: .com->.info as San Diego -> Rosarito.
| 6:35 am on Jun 6, 2007 (gmt 0)|
Little anecdote: several years ago, the city where i live decided to add a new area code to handle the increasing demand on phone numbers. At first, if your phone number used this new area code and you gave it to someone, they would ask "did you just move here?" or "um, do you have a local number?" And i'm guessing there were also a lot of wrong numbers dialed. Then thanks to a couple of discount cellphone providers, the new area code became popular and now nobody bats an eye at it.
I can see the same thing happening with the gTLDs. Right now it's .com and .org, but if enough websites start using a new gTLD, over time people will get used to it, but it'll take a year or two. .info sounds like a good candidate especially since it's a common term in many European languages (and maybe that's why a lot of travel sites have signed up with it), but then it'll be weird to have a blog or an ecommerce site with a .info domain.
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