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Domain appraisal services: Are automated appraisals worth the cost at any price?
Analysis of a major service provider's automated appraisal results.
WolfLover




msg:3045704
 3:21 pm on Aug 14, 2006 (gmt 0)

I've been doing a bit of domain name speculating and am now up to about 160 names.

I have been buying the express appraisals with each domain name making the cost for a domain name plus appraisal cost less than buying the domain name alone. In other words, the domain name cost very little.

Most of the domain names I've purchased have been "appraised" in the range of $48.00 to $134.00.

Last night I purchased a few more names, and one of them was valued at much much more. I was doing the "express appraisals" but for this name I upgraded to a "certified appraisal" and am waiting to hear back.

What I want to know is from reading this forum, many are saying that the automated appraisals are not any good and are apparently not accurate? With GoDaddy the express appraisal you get within a couple of minutes and the certified appraisal takes 2 days, so am I to assume the certified gets someone to actually take a look at it?

What is your opinion, could I have actually found a genuine gem of a domain name for such a small price? I'd have thought that there would be some automated system out there that would have snatched up every single domain name that had a high value.

Now, IF I have actually gotten lucky here, my next question is this. Should I build it right now so it can start getting links to it, etc. and hope the value will rise for the name even further? Or are domain names like gold or any other commodity and what may be a high value today, may take a nose dive tomorrow?

Thanks for any help and advice.

 

oneguy




msg:3049932
 1:51 pm on Aug 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

Something else...

5. What is the best method of selling it IF one wanted to sell it? List it with a domain name selling company? Put a link on it with the for sale information? List it with a domain name auction company?

You can list it with a listing service as a "make offer" so you don't lock yourself into anything. You can also park a domain with a service and make moeny if the domain gets traffic. Most also have an option to put a "for sale sign" up at the top so you can be listing it for sale and profiting at the same time.

That all sounds really easy, but there are a lot of domains that just don't get much type in traffic. (Even ones you think might.) They can still have value otherwise.

Sometimes, depending on the domain, I will make a 5-6 page site for it and put contextual advertising on it. That usually beats parking, since I get SE traffic and other traffic. If you planned to do this with 2000 domains, then parking sounds better because there's no keyword research, building, hosting, time costs associated with everything, etc.

6. Doing a search on G for the two keywords in the domain name, it comes up with 2,760,000 results. Is this any part of the supposed value?

You can look at that, but imagine the counter-examples. -the see- comes up with over 7 million. Putting it in quotes gives you a better idea, but you have to read it within the context of everything else. Doing the same also sometimes tells me not to build a site because I can't compete with some words used in another sector. For instance, try building a site about adobe bricks and buildings. You'll have a rough time.

Leosghost




msg:3050018
 2:52 pm on Aug 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

Advice for wolflover for "rose"... "think pink" the sub niche goth market is already there and the advertisers are waiting ..build the site ..

Maybe the appraiser has a kid into "pink gothic" stuff and knows the spend in that market ..
I can assure you it is large ..

Although most of the domainers here would be tending to veiw this names potential only as related to it's english meaning and associations ..that is to miss the fact that it's words have more than one meaning depending upon ones cultural background..

( there are many very good domain names still out there that are not 100% in the english speaking market ..as more people become bilingual or gain knowledge of other languages ..this applies particularly to the younger potential customers )

one talks of "low hanging fruit".. the spanglish and franglais areas resemble the garden of eden ..

this particular sub niche goth market is already there and the advertisers are waiting ..

build the site wolflover..( I would recommend searching pink goth without quotes and carefully looking around all of the sites in the first two pages for inspiration ..note the adsense ) done well it will be worth more than the appraisal figure ..

maybe the appraiser is a japanese girl ..or a french girl ..or just knows that market segment well .

the worth of a thing is relative ..depends on who is looking at it ..and what they know about it's potential etc.

[edited by: Leosghost at 3:01 pm (utc) on Aug. 17, 2006]

WolfLover




msg:3050080
 3:46 pm on Aug 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

WolfLover - Looking at the numbers I just posted what value would you extract from them? What do the numbers generated by my search indicate? How would you use them? Take a few minutes to contemplate the numbers I posted and then explain how you might use the same data (different search words or "domain candidate words") in the future.

Webwork, I'm not really sure as far as to what to extract from the numbers. It makes me feel that this is a decent amount of search words for the two keywords. There are many more searches available when one uses keywords and keyword phrases related to the whole goth niche.

As we all know, the domain name itself does not even have to have actual keywords in it if you have the right website along with it. Take the biggies, Google, Yahoo, etc. their domain names are not actual keywords that would have produced huge amounts of search results, but it was the website, the marketing, etc. that now would make it impossible for average millionaires to even be able to afford if those sites were to be for sale.

As far as I can tell, the keywords in a domain name have the following value:

  • Possibility of type in traffic.
  • Short domain name that is easy to spell and remember so that visitors return.
  • When someone does a search, they see the keywords in your domain name and may be more likely to click to your website if the search terms in the domain name are what they are searching for.

    I feel that this particular domain name has as much potential as the work I am willing to put into it. I know that I cannot turn it around today and sell it for $17,000.00 and frankly if someone offered that to me today, it would be very tempting, but then if someone was willing to pay that much for it, it must have the potential of earning me much more once fully developed and out of G's sandbox.

    The numbers are not where my talent lies, I'm more of a writer, artist, and marketer. Math is my short suit, and as I've not done a lot of research with the numbers, it is hard for me to know whether the numbers you've quoted are good, bad, or indifferent. That is why I'm here, to ask others their opinion.

    Either way, I've many plans for this particular niche. I already have customers and website visitors to my largest and most successful website that will be interested in the new goth sites.

    What I'm not understanding about the GD appraisal for this name is the following:

  • I also purchased the .org, .net, .biz, .org, .us, and .co.uk for this same site. EVERY TLD had very high appraisal amounts. I have no idea why.
  • I also purchased the same domain name backwards "keyword2keyword1" and it showed an appraisal in the hundreds of dollars. Same exact two keywords, same everything but in reverse order. Why?
  • I have purchased many domain names in this particular niche before and after the "big appraisal". None of the others are "valued" at more than a few hundred dollars according to GD.
  • I have generic travel, generic restaurant, generic insurance, etc. domains as well, some pretty darn good IMHO, however, none of them were appraised more than a few hundred dollars either. Why?

    I think that any domain name has potential to make money as many have said IF the right person wants it badly enough to pay more than the reg fee for it. It takes finding the right person at the right time. Certainly does not seem to be the way one could rely on it as their sole source of income.

    build the site wolflover..( I would recommend searching pink goth without quotes and carefully looking around all of the sites in the first two pages for inspiration ..note the adsense ) done well it will be worth more than the appraisal figure ..

    Leosghost, thank you for your kind words and advice. I know the market pretty well, as I've said, I already have a percentage of my customers that fall into this niche. This domain name has many potential uses, and I plan to use it to build another stream of income from advertising, product sales, etc. One website can cover many sub niches of the main niche. Where perhaps one sub niche gets this many search inquiries, with all the sub niches combined, you might well be on to something.

    Thank you webwork, for your kind words as well and to everyone else who has offered up their advice and experience. I look forward to hearing more and learning more.

    What domain names are the best choice if looking to make money on the sale? At the current time, my plan is to sit on what I have, build each one as time allows, and see what happens.

    [edited by: WolfLover at 3:54 pm (utc) on Aug. 17, 2006]

  • Webwork




    msg:3050113
     4:05 pm on Aug 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

    MODERATOR'S NOTE - Folks, as much as possible I'd ask that we keep the focus of the discussion on the appraisal of this domain and not veer off into other issues, such as "how to pick domains" or what domains to pick, etc. If that's on your mind please start a new companion thread.

    For now, the focus is on a) are automated appraisals worth the cost (at any price) AND, b) IF they are automated then what elements of the automated service - if any - actually yields insight into a domain name's value AND can ordinary folk, without much effort, produce that same insights one their own?

    IMHO, the core value of any automated process is equally well - if not better - yielded by applying just a few, easy to generate metrics:

    1. Google "exact match" numbers for the words in the domain. That is search "Goth rose" in quotes, not Goth rose without quotes. The higher the exact match number, the better, assuming other factors apply - which I next address.
    2. What is the Overture "search volume" for that exact phrase. Overture is a slice in the total search pie, a percentage of total search volume, but in many cases the % ratios are illuminating. The higher the number, the better. IF people are searching for your keyword phrase with a TLD appended AND the domain is not yet registered - BINGO! That is, unless there's something silly or nefarious going on.
    3. What are the recent trends for searchers using that phrase? (See Google's recent search volume trend analysis tool.) What does the future look like from your own research? How wide and deep is the market? In the context of the domain under study: Is Goth here to stay? Has the Gothic movement been growing or shrinking? What preceded Goth and therefore what may replace Goth or be the next evolution?
    4. What is the cost, if you are paying per click, for people searching for the domain phrase?
    5. IS there evidence of any type-in traffic for the phrase, that is, traffic you receive whether any search engine loves you or not? "Domain traffic tasting" has been all the rage for the past year+: temporarilty register the domain and, if there's no traffic, terminate the registration within the first 5 days to receive a credit. (See registrar's TOS.)
    6. How "commercial" is the phrase or word? In other words, the "more commercial" the more likely your PPC spend for the same traffic will go up and the more likely IF you are selling something you will be selling something a) likely to sell; and, b) that has retail value, that is, the leads are more valuable.
    7. Is the word or phrase "the generic industry phrase for a commercial product or service"? Not trademark words or trademark tending words (IPod, Podcast) but the more generic (Webcast, MusicDownload). Generic is good for a variety of reasons, including search volume, memorability, etc. I say poo-poo to those who have, at least in the past, argued for a unique domain name not a generic one. Unique is great if you have a thick wallet (to pay for branding) and a thick stomach (to continue to pay for traffic via PPC as your website rises and falls in the SERPs).
    8. How natural is the subject for online search and service? For example "bricks" may not sell online but people may look for a local company that sells bricks. OTOH, customized bricks - ones with your logo, crest, etc. may be sold online as they aren't available at a local masonry supply house. Some "words as domains" simply work better in the online world.

    Most of what I've just described is the type of analysis that anyone can do on their own, and in doing so, will likely outperform the automated service. A secondary benefit of doing such work is that it may a) lead to the discovery of other, better domains to register; b) ideas about how to develop or market the domain/website/service; c) creates "real data" - in other words, you don't have to trust the automated data, which may be incomplete, wrong or may simply not have covered the subjects.

    There's more to add to the analysis, but the above 8 factors alone are a pretty good guide to putting a value on a domain. There are people for whom type-in traffic alone is the metric. For a deeper analysis I again suggest reading this thread: Placing a value on a domain for resale [webmasterworld.com]. However, for the purpose of valuing a domain either before or after purchase I'd say the 8 factors mentioned above are as reliable a guide of value as any automated domain appraisal will ever offer.

    [edited by: Webwork at 4:23 pm (utc) on Aug. 17, 2006]

    webdoctor




    msg:3050149
     4:39 pm on Aug 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

    I'll be open and say that I'm pretty negative about appraisal services - and not just for domain names...

    When I first read the appraisal that WolfLover was given, I almost dropped my coffee :-)

    While reading the posts in the thread through a couple of times, it appears the name has grown on me quite a bit, I'm not nearly as incredulous as I was before. In fact, I actually think it's a good name for a site ;-)

    The question I have is - if the domain name appraisers have even an half-accurate way of appraising names, why aren't they running their dictionary lists through their appraising 'engines' and grabbing up all these domains that are worth $,$$$ to $$,$$$ to $,$$$,$$$?

    It's a bit like the advert for the "Make millions with AdSense" ebook. Presumably the author is so tired of making millions with AdSense that she feels the need to tell the world...

    Webwork




    msg:3050173
     4:56 pm on Aug 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

    The question I have is - if the domain name appraisers have even an half-accurate way of appraising names, why aren't they running their dictionary lists through their appraising 'engines' and grabbing up all these domains that are worth $,$$$ to $$,$$$ to $,$$$,$$$?

    You know, sometimes you just have to stop and tip your hat to an elegant, seemingly obvious yet unpopular (not picked up by the masses) bit of analysis.

    My hats off to you Webdoctor for applying a certain common sense to the service being offered. Ya, IF it was such a truly valuable predictive tool one would think the tool would first be used to exhaust the supply of valuable unregistered domains, wouldn't you? A bit like a tool that could accurately tell you where there is a mine-able vein of gold. Who'd give away the goldmine finder, before applying it to look in all the obvious places, if goldmine finder actually worked?

    OTOH, the business of running names through lists and registering them IS actually taking place. It's one of the methodologies of the domain tasting industry.

    No one (to my knowledge) is sitting around typing in 500,000 domain candidate domain names each day. Instead, the domain tasters are using automated approaches, based upon "word match in language" occurrence data, etc. So, in a sense, what Webdoctor has just described IS, in fact, taking place. However, the methodology is not based upon some word value model but on a frequency = traffic volume model. That model, incidently, is actually a value model to the degree that the predictive analytics of the direct navigation volume are married to statistical data about the present and future PPC value of such traffic, traffic trends, etc.

    The predictive analytics of domain tasting can be quite sophisticated, given the marriage of datasets applied to the process. Baked_Jake - you listening . . . I mean reading?

    So, from a certain point of view, domain tasting is consuming the potential value of the domain appraisal services - a least to the degree that traffic forms a basis of placing a value on a domain name. :)

    Gotta love the way this world works. Welcome to the domain goldrush, pas deux.

    [edited by: Webwork at 5:11 pm (utc) on Aug. 17, 2006]

    WolfLover




    msg:3050177
     4:57 pm on Aug 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

    The question I have is - if the domain name appraisers have even an half-accurate way of appraising names, why aren't they running their dictionary lists through their appraising 'engines' and grabbing up all these domains that are worth $,$$$ to $$,$$$ to $,$$$,$$$?

    webdoctor, that is exactly my question as well. I'm not sure why for instance, one could ever actually buy a valuable domain name for the reg fee when for instance, they also have employees with privileged info. Wouldn't some of these employees buy up many great domain names?

    Isn't there software the registrars have available to assess these domain names and then buy all the high dollar value ones?

    rohitj




    msg:3050223
     5:20 pm on Aug 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

    Its not as transparent as it seems--the one word domains (car.com or keyboard.com or whatever) are not available / ready for the snatching. Domain appraisal is an exercise and creating an automated tool that can do so, is a start to measuring the value of domain. But there are many things that an automated tool could not take into account. For example, if one were to think about a date in history, prior to that date the domain may not have been worth anything. An automated tool would not know the value of a historic event that just occured etc., There will always be human insight and, therefore, automated appraisals are only one resource with limitations that need to be recognized if the tool is to be used effectively. That being said, an automated tool could account for backlinks, alexa rankings, forum posts, blog posts, and appraise the value based on the measurable/quantifiable amounts.

    vite_rts




    msg:3050224
     5:21 pm on Aug 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

    A couple off things

    A "Certified Appraisal" is this not more than just the standard automated response?

    When a piece of paper is certified , the certifying entity endows that paper or electronic document with more than just an answer, its putting its reputation on the line surely

    So, surely they must have had a human reviewer give the appraisal a good look, some one as well informed as you guys here on www.

    Okay, I am remarkably poorly informed on this matters, but I am just looking at the word certified from a business point off view.

    Even if there are automated systems matching up possible combo's, like all automata at this time, they lack the human dimension for recognising human desire,

    This may be one that got away,

    I don't dig the goth scene, and as soon as I viewed the results of typing in that domain name, ,,, it was another world!

    P.S. Did You get the certified appraisal?

    egurr




    msg:3050277
     5:46 pm on Aug 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

    The site is worth whatever someone will pay for it. This is a speculator's commodity and not valued on EBITDA, or even a pro-forma.
    It's a decent domain for the market. Easy to remember and two nice keywords. I'd say the domain is somewhat overvalued, but you could build that case quickly. In other words, you'll get out of it exactly what you put in to it.

    egurr




    msg:3050279
     5:48 pm on Aug 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

    By the way thanks to wolflover and webwork for this thread. Making an occasional exception to the rules really livens up the debate.

    WolfLover




    msg:3050283
     5:51 pm on Aug 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

    A "Certified Appraisal" is this not more than just the standard automated response?

    When a piece of paper is certified , the certifying entity endows that paper or electronic document with more than just an answer, its putting its reputation on the line surely

    So, surely they must have had a human reviewer give the appraisal a good look, some one as well informed as you guys here on www.

    What I did was this. I got the "express domain appraisal" when I purchased the domain name. The express comes to you within a couple of minutes, so it is clearly an automated software program who is doing the appraisal. The express appraisal valued the domain at up to $34,000.00 I then figured something was wrong but while nearly falling out of my chair, I then paid an extra $10.00 for the Certified Appraisal which they say takes up to 2 days but I got it in one day. So, does this mean someone actually looked at my domain name and a real human being gave the up to $17,000.00 appraisal? The certified was half the amount of the express appraisal.

    I have no way of knowing if the folks at GD actually use a real live person to do the Certified appraisals or not. On the appraisal itself it says it is "backed by the number one domain registrar", blah blah blah. I have no clue.

    Anyone else have any idea? Anyone have friends inside? lol

    mindaugas13




    msg:3050290
     5:54 pm on Aug 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

    Automated appraisal services like GoDaddy's are generally garbage in my opinion. The intangibles that go into a domain name are too numerous for a simple program to quantify. And even if an "expert" looks at it, they are not an expert in that niche or field.

    Myspace.com was not worth much a few years ago. It's more about finding the person with a vision to see the value (which is a crapshoot) or having a plan for the domain name few others see.

    nick_irvine




    msg:3050333
     6:18 pm on Aug 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

    WolfLover

    fantastic thread. We should have more of these. WolfLover very credible of you to put in the name for everyones benefit. Appreciate it.

    In regards to your domain, as some people have alredy pointed out you can get the current market value by posting it on domain name forums.

    you will get two prices reseller and end user.
    Now every domainer looks for end user price which is, a big company comes in with an idea which involves your domain name and buys it of you at $$$$$$$ and this is a rare but not unknown occurance.

    Second is the reseller value which is actually the exact indication of the market price.

    As for appraisals most of them are automated.
    A funny incident did happen a few months back with me,

    I bought a domain ( I am not mentioning the name nor the price) few months back. Since the price of the domain was quite a bit, the domain owner suggested to use an domain escrow service of a very famous company which I am sure every domainer has heard off.
    So I use it the transcation goes thru and I get the domain.
    Since the owner had very high regards for this comapny , after buying the domain and hearing all the loads of appraisal servises sales pitch, I decide to get the appraisal done from this very company.

    Took two days as well and I think $30 something...and when I get the long report, well they also quote few recent sale in that category which further shows where the market is going.

    Well out of the four relative sales, one was my own domain name..lol
    Now I paid more than $30 for this domain but I still got a automated appraisal.

    No one in there right mind would include the same domain name as comaparable sales.
    That day did it for me, no more appraisals for me.

    my only suggestion would be, dont , dont , dont get appraisals for your domains from these providers.
    You are just wasting money.

    And especially when you can get free appraisal on domain forums where there are plenty of resellers who know the market and have been in the industry for some time. The choice is yours.

    Webword as always great thread.

    WolfLover




    msg:3050356
     6:29 pm on Aug 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

    my only suggestion would be, dont , dont , dont get appraisals for your domains from these providers.
    You are just wasting money.

    Just an FYI, the only reason I've been getting any appraisals to begin with is this particular registrar is that <the price of the domain + appraisal was negligible, not much more than the price of the domain itself.>
    [edited by: WolfLover at 6:30 pm (utc) on Aug. 17, 2006]

    [edited by: Webwork at 7:30 pm (utc) on Aug. 17, 2006]

    webdoctor




    msg:3050401
     6:48 pm on Aug 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

    assess these domain names and then buy all the high dollar value ones

    I think the problem is that noone can agree on the criteria for the valuation.

    Out of curiosity, I went looking for variations on your name. I tried combinaions of 'goth' plus a three or four letter word, i.e. I was looking for domains like goth<word>.com

    Of course, many of my initial guesses were already registered, but there were plenty of combinations left.

    Could I be looking at the goldmine that Webwork was talking about?

    ...

    Back on planet Earth, I think the reality is that domains like this are what you make of them. "reg-fee" up to "myspace.com" - it's up to you :-)

    Kirby




    msg:3050579
     8:49 pm on Aug 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

    I think the problem is that noone can agree on the criteria for the valuation.

    ...

    Back on planet Earth, I think the reality is that domains like this are what you make of them. "reg-fee" up to "myspace.com" - it's up to you :-)

    Dead on and IMO this is also where Leosghost hit the nail on the head. It also shows the achilles heel of domain appraisals. It would be very easy to do the straight statistical analysis that Webwork did and come up with a much lower number. The difference between the perspective of a rose aficianado versus the perspective of Leo who most likely has teenagers in the house will also impact value. This is where the real estate evaluation principal of highest and best use comes into play.

    Its also about timing. joelieberman dot com and algore dot com are probably not worth as much today as they were in 2000, aside from the benefit of the age factor.

    johnnyman




    msg:3050890
     1:09 am on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

    Now if you look at it from a psychological point of view when it comes to appraisals, its brilliant! think about this:

    Since thousands of us have registered worthless domain names and simply not renew them, that would mean the registrar for that domain would probably not earn anymore beyond that first initial registration. BUT if you attach a value to the domain name especially a decent value, wouldnt that mean the person would be more likely to reregistered that name simply because of "fear of lost" of a "valuable" name? the reregistration rate should be higher
    for the registrar of that domain name (especially those that offer appraisal services or are in "in bed" with domain name appraisal services).

    just my take...

    Rodney




    msg:3050891
     1:11 am on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

    Interesting thread :) I fancy myself a bit of a domainer. Not a pro, but definitely not a newbie.

    These are my questions:
    1. Is it possible to still be able to buy domains straight from the registrar and they may really be worth much more than what you paid?

    Yes.

    Does it happen often? No.

    But it IS possible that you think of a good domain name that isn't registered and have someone else find value in that name.

    It could be that the domain was previously registered (check archive.org or #*$! for a history) or it could be that you just thought of the right 2 word combination a day or months before someone else thought of the same thing.

    This can happen frequently in the webwork recommended "local market" niche :)

    What can happen even more frequently is that you buy a domain at "wholesale" on the domain aftermarket (namepros, dnforum, etc) and because you know your niche better than the seller, you capitalize on an undervalued domain name.

    2. In your opinion and experience, is it better to sit on a valuable domain name, and hope the value rises?

    Depends on the name and intent for registering the domain.

    Most of the domains I register I register acutally thinking that I could make a pretty decent website out of the name (or have already begun development on such a website).

    So there is the odd occassion that I have registered a domain name and then had someone want to buy it for a site they are developing.

    Doesn't happen often, but at the very minimum, it can be a slight reassurance that you've picked a decent domain to develop a site out of.

    Some domains are worth more developed (most are) than they are stagnant, so it can be worth your time to put something into it.

    Some domains can make decent money parked because of the type-in (direct navigation) traffic that they can generate. Those kind of names are easy to hold onto because they pay for themselves and more each year :)

    3. Is one better off keeping a valuable domain name, developing it, getting quality links, and later offer it for sale at a higher price because it should be worth much more with an established website being sold with the domain name?

    In general.

    A good domain + a unique website with quality content + traffic from various sources is > just a domain name anyday.

    4. What price would one put on a domain name with an established website that is earning you X amount of dollars per year? Would you price it at 5 times, 10 times, 20 times your yearly earnings from the site?

    There are lots of different formulas for this. Hardly any of them hold true in every case. Sometimes a motivated buyer will pay 100x earnings and sometimes a motivated seller will take 1 years earnings or less.

    Your earnings can give you a solid foundation for your negotiation because that's money in your pocket whether the sale goes through or not. It can help you define your "walk away" and "live with without regrets" number during negotiations.

    5. What is the best method of selling it IF one wanted to sell it? List it with a domain name selling company? Put a link on it with the for sale information? List it with a domain name auction company?

    The best domains have buyers knocking down their door to buy it. Without any "for sale" sign or without any domain selling company listing.

    If you are actively trying to sell a domain, putting it out there in as many ways as possible couldn't hurt too much. A small for sale sign on the site, a listing at a few of the domain aftermaket marketplaces, maybe try a domain forum or two.

    6. Doing a search on G for the two keywords in the domain name, it comes up with 2,760,000 results. Is this any part of the supposed value?

    Not really. Not unless the two keywords are in quotes and you still come up with a pretty high number.

    It really does come down to how much a buyer would pay. I've sold hand registered domains that were appraised at "reg fee" by domain forum members for 100 times what they quoted.

    If you have the right domain matched with the right (end user) buyer, it can be a match made in domainer heaven. Again though, it is more of the exception than the norm.

    Your domain is pretty darn good for the niche. Easy to remember. Has that easy "drive by marketability [webmasterworld.com]" and can easily be said aloud and remembered.

    If you are knowledgeable in the area and have the time to create a website, I'd say go for it. If for nothing else than the experience of creating something original from scratch :)

    Rosalind




    msg:3050981
     3:06 am on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

    Back on planet Earth, I think the reality is that domains like this are what you make of them.

    I think that makes up a lot of the value of this domain. It's not currently two words that are on everybody's lips, but it could easily be, because the two words create an image in your head that could easily stick. It wouldn't work for anything more prosaic, like "goth peony" or "goth daffodil".

    Wlauzon




    msg:3051268
     8:45 am on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

    Personally, I just don't see that domain being worth anything near $17,000. For several reasons, the main one being the non-popularity of the term Goth used with roses.

    And a second reason is that our experience with domain name appraisals is that they are seldom even close to accurate. They are based far too much on things like word size and overall length, but do not take into consideration the actual marketability or commonality of use of those words.

    A while back we got a $4000 appraisal on a domain that we had never used due to a change in plans for our sites. It was a 6 letter domain with 2 common words. But it was also very very industry specific - after listing it twice on eBay we finally sold it for $350. In many ways it was similar to your domain - two common words, but totally unrelated to each other.

    As many others here have said, appraisals for such nebulous things as domain names are wild guesses at best - a few years ago, who would have paid much for www.google.com?

    A domain name - as many others have also said - is worth what someone will pay for it. And the only way to find out the TRUE value is to sell it. A clue is that if this domain is so valuable, how did it go untaken for so many years? One reason might be because nobody wanted it...

    [edited by: Wlauzon at 8:47 am (utc) on Aug. 18, 2006]

    seosteve




    msg:3051507
     1:10 pm on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

    A domain is worth what someone is willing to pay. The fact that no one had registered the domain tells you no one wanted it.

    If no one in the past 10 years was willing to pay $5 a year for the name. What are the chance someone will come along tomorrow and offer you 17k?

    DonMateo




    msg:3051527
     1:35 pm on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

    seosteve,

    Though your argument makes sense, in practice things aren't that simple. I've had first hand experience in registering new domains within the last couple of years and selling them on for much more than the registration cost (though no-where near $17K). Businesses change, new trends and niches form, and sometimes just having a name out there gives other people ideas.

    Leosghost




    msg:3051558
     1:59 pm on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

    Anyone else have any idea? Anyone have friends inside? lol

    I do ..and so I phoned a friend ( whom I trust ) and asked ..( you never know for sure til you ask ;-)..well worth the cost of a 20 minute transatlantic call ( France to Pheonix )..

    so ..yes ..

    ..."certified appraisal" at the registrar mentioned does indeed mean human reveiw by a seperate team experienced in domain names ..their sales and dev' potential .

    ( my caveat ... however that doesnt mean the experts know about every niche under the sun ..at the end of the day like I said ..the worth of anything depends on relative factors and knowledge and need )

    further details of what I was told have been about "express" and "certified appraisals" I passed to wolfmaster

    And yes ..Webwork was pretty close with what the metrics are that are used in an automated "express appraisal" ;-)

    [edited by: Leosghost at 2:02 pm (utc) on Aug. 18, 2006]

    WolfLover




    msg:3051682
     3:28 pm on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)


    Anyone else have any idea? Anyone have friends inside? lol

    I do ..and so I phoned a friend ( whom I trust ) and asked ..( you never know for sure til you ask ;-)..well worth the cost of a 20 minute transatlantic call ( France to Pheonix )..

    Thank you so much for doing that! You are beyond kind and this is what makes WW a great place to hang out and make new friends! I'm sure I am not the only one who appreciates the time, effort, and money spent on the phone call. Thanks again!

    Dogza




    msg:3052054
     8:07 pm on Aug 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

    << 1. Is it possible to still be able to buy domains straight from the registrar and they may really be worth much more than what you paid? >>

    I'm amazed at what some domains sell for on the aftermarket. Just look at the major resell markets like Sedo or Afternic and look at the "resent sales" listing.. Nothing close to $17,000, but it seems like you can make $500 or $1000 all day long selling low-quality names.

    Rosalind




    msg:3052341
     1:18 am on Aug 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

    Personally, I just don't see that domain being worth anything near $17,000. For several reasons, the main one being the non-popularity of the term Goth used with roses.

    I agree that $17,000 is likely to be a vast overestimate. But I don't believe either that you can simply go on current search term popularity figures to determine that it's next to worthless, because type-in traffic is only a small part of the equation. You have to consider the human factor, and the way certain combinations will be more memorable than others once suggested. For most domain names, you have to encounter them a few times before you even notice them and decide to visit.

    Edwin




    msg:3052399
     2:43 am on Aug 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

    I'm amazed at what some domains sell for on the aftermarket. Just look at the major resell markets like Sedo or Afternic and look at the "resent sales" listing.. Nothing close to $17,000, but it seems like you can make $500 or $1000 all day long selling low-quality names.

    That's certainly how the sales lists make it LOOK. However, that's just the tippy tip of a very large iceberg.

    In practice, there are hundreds of thousands of unsold names for every eyebrow-raising sale of a "low-quality" domain, so in practice if you're going to rely on those sorts of sales, it's like buying lottery tickets: you could win, you could win BIG, you could even win several times... but it's not very likely.

    Unfortunately it's the "but it's not very likely" that seems to elude so many newcomers (and some old-timers) to domaining, as can be seen instantly if you browse the for-sale threads on any major domain forum. The desperation in some of the sales posts is just pitiful.

    [edited by: Edwin at 2:44 am (utc) on Aug. 19, 2006]

    oneguy




    msg:3052644
     12:35 pm on Aug 19, 2006 (gmt 0)

    The desperation in some of the sales posts is just pitiful.

    Not to mention the domains themselves.

    Now if you look at it from a psychological point of view when it comes to appraisals, its brilliant!

    And so obvious now that you brought it up. Nice observation.

    Lobo




    msg:3054790
     7:07 pm on Aug 21, 2006 (gmt 0)

    Ii'm glad you are excited about it and if you want to test the market then put it up for sale and see what you get.. I would place a bet on you having no takers...

    So if you bought it for a purpose I would recommend you go with that as in the world of domain resale it does not seem to hold any value to me..

    Then I am going on instinct and 10 years of buying and selling domains .. I could be wrong ..

    [edited by: Lobo at 7:08 pm (utc) on Aug. 21, 2006]

    [edited by: Webwork at 9:16 pm (utc) on Aug. 21, 2006]
    [edit reason]
    [1][edit reason] Uncivilized commentary [/edit]
    [/edit][/1]

    trader




    msg:3055062
     10:59 pm on Aug 21, 2006 (gmt 0)

    As Webwork also mentioned earlier, you need to look at the 2 words in quotes and using a space to correctly check Google webpage popularity of multi-word phrases, i.e. "Goth Rose"

    Using that criteria the results are under 900, which is actually a very low number by comparison to many other 2 word terms. In fact, even typos and non-real words can have far more results.

    With that said, perhaps there is some hidden value as very oddly there is an anomaly as the 2 words GothRose without a space (in effect one word) has greater than 5,000 returns. That is very odd. In fact, I don't think I have seen that happen before, as typically it is the reverse with the words with a space having significantly more, but without the space far less.

    This 65 message thread spans 3 pages: < < 65 ( 1 [2] 3 > >
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