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United Kingdom or Great Britain
sundaridevi




msg:4567526
 1:08 pm on Apr 24, 2013 (gmt 0)

When creating a country select field on a form, which is better?

- 1 choice: United Kingdom
- 2 choices: Great Britain, Northern Ireland

 

engine




msg:4567543
 1:52 pm on Apr 24, 2013 (gmt 0)

Most people would expect to find it, in a drop down, under UK, and not GB.

brotherhood of LAN




msg:4567549
 2:04 pm on Apr 24, 2013 (gmt 0)

United Kingdom is how GB/UK is represented overseas politically & is different to GB (GB excludes Northern Ireland).

g1smd




msg:4567550
 2:05 pm on Apr 24, 2013 (gmt 0)

Some go as far as to have UK, then additional separate selections for Guernsey, Jersey and the Isle of Man.

Lexur




msg:4567562
 2:24 pm on Apr 24, 2013 (gmt 0)

The name of the country is United Kingdom of Great Britain and North Ireland and almost everybody knows what country is the United Kingdom the same way nobody thinks in the United States... of Brasil. :-)

lucy24




msg:4567683
 9:31 pm on Apr 24, 2013 (gmt 0)

I'd be hard pressed to think of a situation where users in Scotland are the same as users in England, but different from users in Northern Ireland. Unless your site is concerned with, say, surface transport to London. Or, in the alternative, surface transport to [London]derry.

Leosghost




msg:4567708
 10:25 pm on Apr 24, 2013 (gmt 0)

^^^ Football ( soccer ) ..would make a difference..as would other ( sectarian* ) factors..

*It is "complex"..

Samizdata




msg:4567717
 11:46 pm on Apr 24, 2013 (gmt 0)

I'd be hard pressed to think of a situation where users in Scotland are the same as users in England, but different from users in Northern Ireland

The people of England and Scotland share the same island with the people of Wales.

The people of Ireland are different in this respect.

...

lucy24




msg:4567730
 12:58 am on Apr 25, 2013 (gmt 0)

Er, yes, that's why I threw out "surface transport to London" as a conceivable exception. But are there any others? I can't imagine there are a fat lot of isoglosses running between the two islands; most dialectal divides would put England-- or even southern England, heh heh-- on one side and the rest of the British Isles on the other.

topr8




msg:4567841
 8:17 am on Apr 25, 2013 (gmt 0)

actually, some laws and procedures are slightly different in Northern Ireland (ditto scotland) and i think the education system is slightly different (scotland is certainly different to england)

sundaridevi




msg:4567864
 9:56 am on Apr 25, 2013 (gmt 0)

Thank you. Just curious because I've seen it listed as Great Britain several times lately.

lucy24




msg:4567882
 10:59 am on Apr 25, 2013 (gmt 0)

actually, some laws and procedures are slightly different in Northern Ireland (ditto scotland) and i think the education system is slightly different (scotland is certainly different to england)

Which again comes back to: the most significant differences are between England and the rest of the UK, not between Great Britain and, er, other islands.

I've seen it listed as Great Britain several times lately.

This wouldn't be in Irish sources would it
:: snrk ::

Samizdata




msg:4567924
 1:44 pm on Apr 25, 2013 (gmt 0)

Just curious because I've seen it listed as Great Britain several times lately.

As Leosghost pointed out, it is complex.

UK vehicles travelling outside the country use a GB sticker for identification.

The country was represented at last year's Olympics by "Team GB", while athletes from Northern Ireland could represent Ireland if they preferred.

The abbreviation GBP is often used to denote the UK currency.

But for a "country select field", United Kingdom is the correct usage.

"surface transport to London"

The UK encompasses numerous islands, including the Orkneys and Shetlands. Ferries are more commonly used for transport than submarines.

most dialectal divides would put England-- or even southern England, heh heh-- on one side and the rest of the British Isles on the other.

Welsh and Gaelic are not English dialects, they are distinct languages. And the southernmost part of England is Cornwall, which historically has a language of its own.

the most significant differences are between England and the rest of the UK, not between Great Britain and, er, other islands

The main UK political parties have no parliamentary representation in Northern Ireland and most refuse to organise there or put up candidates - but they happily compete with each other in all the constituencies of England, Wales and Scotland (collectively Great Britian).

I suppose it depends what you mean by significant.

...

g1smd




msg:4567999
 5:34 pm on Apr 25, 2013 (gmt 0)

Country selectors are usually labelled "United Kingdom" but often select a value of "GB" behind the scenes, e.g. language selectors resulting in en-GB.

lucy24




msg:4568071
 9:47 pm on Apr 25, 2013 (gmt 0)

Welsh and Gaelic are not English dialects, they are distinct languages.

:: beating head against wall ::

It therefore follows that dialects OF ENGLISH spoken in regions with a strong underlay of a different subfamily will differ significantly from dialects in regions with a longer English-speaking history.

Ferries are more commonly used for transport than submarines.

"Surface transport" means "non-air". Please tell me you already knew this. You can put your car on a ferry. But you don't generally drive from London to Dublin. (London to Paris, possibly.)

The main UK political parties have no parliamentary representation in Northern Ireland

Oh, cool, so that's another area where the GB:UK distinction is significant. If your website is about British electoral politics, you'll want to know if your user is GB or elsewhere. But you'll also need to know if they're UK at all. A site based in the US might conceivably need to know whether you live in a state or a non-state (= territories plus DC) but in general, on average, the important distinction is either "continental US" vs everywhere else, or "lower 48" vs. everywhere else, depending on whether you charge extra for shipping to Alaska.

Samizdata




msg:4568191
 8:51 am on Apr 26, 2013 (gmt 0)

you don't generally drive from London to Dublin. (London to Paris, possibly.)

Dublin is not in the United Kingdom.

And no, it is not possible to travel by road from London to Paris as you suggest.

:: beating head against wall ::

I doubt that this will help your understanding of the subject.

But hey, knock yourself out.

...

piatkow




msg:4568560
 7:09 pm on Apr 27, 2013 (gmt 0)


And no, it is not possible to travel by road from London to Paris as you suggest.

But you can go by train.

The underlying confusion arises partly because the ISO-3166 code for UK is GB. I don't know the real background for this but the story is that the official responsible thought that his brief excluded Northern Ireland.

Crown Dependencies have their own ISO-3166 codes and have different tax regimes.

topr8




msg:4568585
 9:52 pm on Apr 27, 2013 (gmt 0)

personally speaking as a british subject, whatever the niceties might be i use GB and UK synonymously and everyone i know does the same.

although back to the original question, as Samizdata said

>>But for a "country select field", United Kingdom is the correct usage.

and this is what i personally would expect to see, and whether it is technically correct or not, it is conventionally correct.

... as an aside regarding the differences - many years ago i bought a car with NI plates (eg it had originally been registed in NI) and legally i was supposed to re-register the car with the DVLA and be issued with a new number plate, this would not have been the case if the car had originally been registered in either scotland or wales.

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