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Japan Seizes Google User Records
bill




msg:4228733
 6:50 am on Nov 10, 2010 (gmt 0)

This is a big deal in Japan now. Someone leaked a video of an international incident at sea between China and Japan. The media is really hyping the story.

Tokyo seizes Google user records over video leak: reports [news.asiaone.com]

Japanese prosecutors on Tuesday seized user records from Google in an investigation into the leak of a video on YouTube showing a tense maritime incident that sparked a row with China, reports said.

The move, reported by the public broadcaster NHK and other Japanese media, came after the government confirmed the authenticity of the film showing a Chinese fishing trawler colliding with two Japanese coastguard vessels in disputed waters in early September.

The footage was taken by the Japanese coastguard during the incident in the East China Sea and not released to the public for fear of inflaming the already bitter dispute with China, but it was uploaded on to YouTube on Friday.

After an in-house investigation, the coastguard on Monday brought a criminal complaint in Tokyo against an unknown suspect, citing breaches of the national public service act and other laws.

 

Sgt_Kickaxe




msg:4228757
 9:29 am on Nov 10, 2010 (gmt 0)

They should have just said "hey google, who uploaded that vid and can you send us some satellite video footage of the whole thing while you get that name? Thanks.".

Pfui




msg:4228758
 9:38 am on Nov 10, 2010 (gmt 0)

This just in: Japan coastguard employee admits collision video leak: NHK [news.asiaone.com...]

Sgt_Kickaxe




msg:4228759
 10:01 am on Nov 10, 2010 (gmt 0)

There's two videos showing two different hits on youtube.

One video has the Chinese fishing vessel with the Japanese coast guard ship running along beside it when they come together and the other video has the Chinese fishing vessel running into the back of the coast guard ship at a right angle.

Neither video clearly tell you whom the instigator is.

At first glance it looks like the Chinese vessel hits the throttle from a dead stop to run into the back of the Japanese coast guard ship but it you look closely and listen to the engine sounds the Japanese ships essentially stops right in front of it, if it had continued its course/speed it would have been missed.

You can tell just how powerful the much larger Japanese coast guard ship is in the other video when, after they bump into each other while side by side, the coast guard ship hits the throttle and pulls away from the Chinese ship in seconds.

While the video, at face value, suggests the Chinese fishing vessel is to blame for the collision it's clearly the Japanese coast guard ships that are harassing the much slower Chinese ship by going around it in circles repeatedly.

The Japanese coast guard ship should have set the example and NOT positioned itself a few meters in front of the Chinese ship repeatedly. The video doesn't say how long the coast guard had been doing this.

The bottom line is that this Chinese fishing vessel was absolutely no match for the coast guard ships in any way and it would require some extremely poor decision making by the Japanese ship to get hit at all. The Chinese vessel wasn't the party looking to pick this fight and the waters aren't Japanese owned so fault lays with the Japanese, imo.

StoutFiles




msg:4228814
 2:31 pm on Nov 10, 2010 (gmt 0)

Japan should publicly punish whoever was responsible for this on the Japanese side. Making an assumption...it seems like the Japanese ship was harassing the Chinese ship which eventually caused the collision.

kaled




msg:4228901
 6:14 pm on Nov 10, 2010 (gmt 0)

it seems like the Japanese ship was harassing the Chinese ship which eventually caused the collision.

I haven't seen the footage, but my understanding is that the Chinese vessel was in waters that Japan considers its own. Coastguard patrols all around the world might behave similarly and impound offending vessels until a court has heard the evidence. The only difference here is that we are all expected to kowtow to the mighty China.

What do people think would have happened if a Japanese trawler blithely sailed into Chinese waters to do a spot of fishing (and refused to leave as has been alleged)?

Kaled.

Sgt_Kickaxe




msg:4228945
 9:06 pm on Nov 10, 2010 (gmt 0)

Japan considers the waters Japanese and China considers the waters Chinese. Since the dispute is well known to both sides it's provocative to be trying to detain any of each others ships. No co-operation can be expected at sea between the two countries since no authority is recognized by the other.

Watch the video, the Japanese coast guard ships know this yet the pair of ships seem to circle the Chinese fishing vessel endlessly, an accident was imminent in that situation. Fishing in disputed waters is one thing, causing an accident is another. Now they're intertwined with Google and it's members. The Japanese coast guard should have relented in known disputed waters.

kaled




msg:4229006
 12:38 am on Nov 11, 2010 (gmt 0)

Since the dispute is well known to both sides it's provocative to be trying to detain any of each others ships.

I could equally say it's provocative to go fishing in disputed waters. Let's be realistic about this, a Chinese trawler is unlikely to enter disputed waters unless ordered to do so by the Government (or possibly as a result of a navigational error). However...

Let's assume the trawler went astray accidentally, the correct procedure when challenged is to slow down or stop and await instructions. It's exactly the same as a car approaching an army checkpoint - if you try to get away you can expect to be shot at. I only watched two videos but I didn't see the Japanese Coastguard vessel do anything that was out of order even if its manoeuvres were ill-advised.

You might want to check this out if you think China should be treated as cute and cuddly
[nytimes.com...]

Kaled.

bill




msg:4229072
 4:21 am on Nov 11, 2010 (gmt 0)

Here's some background from a more Japanese perspective: [yomiuri.co.jp...]

The Chinese boat on Tuesday allegedly ignored orders by JCG patrol vessels to halt and in an attempt to flee collided with two of the JCG vessels. Believing that the fishing boat's actions were deliberate, the JCG took the captain into custody on suspicion of obstructing official duties of marine safety officers.

At the time of the collisions, about 160 Chinese vessels were illegally operating off the Senkaku Islands.

The Chinese Navy is dispatching warships on the pretext of protecting Chinese fishing vessels in the South China Sea, increasing tensions with Southeast Asian nations.

If China is trying to increase its influence in the East China Sea by sending fishing vessels as an "advance guard," it will affect the national security of Japan.

walkman




msg:4229113
 7:07 am on Nov 11, 2010 (gmt 0)

This is serious as it can easily harm state interests. I can see why Japan is concerned.

China and Japan (and Russia, Vietnam, Philippines, Taiwan, and...) have a lot of islands to sort out and with possible $trillions at play it can easily turn into WWIII...with US and India right in the middle of it.
[usatoday.com...]
[bloomberg.com...]

Green_Grass




msg:4229166
 10:51 am on Nov 11, 2010 (gmt 0)

China has always had territorial ambitions and wants to grab as much as land as possible. India has no issues at stake in these islands and has enough problems with China, claiming huge amounts of land on its eastern and northern land borders. With China using Pakistan as a proxy in its various disputes with India, India may be fishing in troubled waters..

walkman




msg:4229167
 11:11 am on Nov 11, 2010 (gmt 0)

China has always had territorial ambitions and wants to grab as much as land as possible. India has no issues at stake in these islands and has enough problems with China, claiming huge amounts of land on its eastern and northern land borders. With China using Pakistan as a proxy in its various disputes with India, India may be fishing in troubled waters..


If China goes to war so will India, that's how it always goes among big neighbors, even if they didn't have a land dispute. But China has overplayed its hand, US managed to gather everyone against them :)

And India is now being armed to the teeth and supported by USA. Would Pakistan go against everyone else to support China? Hmmm....not so sure. A losing country might cease to exist or get much smaller, depending how much blood is shed.

IMO, China is very close to the tipping point, one spark and you will see unprecedented internal chaos, so their strength is grossly overestimated. Nationalism can win them a few weeks but eventually people will want jobs and security.

Green_Grass




msg:4229176
 11:41 am on Nov 11, 2010 (gmt 0)

All out war is a rare scenariao these days,in the era of nukes. Mostly it is moving troops and grabbing land with aggressive intent, slowly but surely. China has been doing so already with India on its eastern borders with India slow to respond. Indians just don't know how to counter this tactic. Recently India has made a few moves to enlist the support of Vietnam, Combodia and other smaller South eastern countries but China dominates both militarily and economically..China seems to have too much 'Pride' and also seems to take offense at every small gesture or action which it deems ( imagines) to be an affront. For example, it hates India because they give sanctuary to the Dalai Lama and they would want India to deport him to China. After grabbing Tibet virtually unoposed, they naturally believe that the world holds them in awe and fear. Little that they realize that their support to Pakistan to forment trouble in India leads to the same fundamentalist elements creating havoc in their provinces also. Chinese are good at suppressing dissent and controlling press coverage..but when public anger explodes..sometimes even the army and secret police is not enough..

If and when they make overt threatening moves against India, they will have to take into account the Russians also and that is why they use Pakistan for creating trouble and support it with arms and nuclear tech..

The trouble in the East China sea ( and also the South China Sea) is primarily again a Land grab and ego satisfaction exercise to show the world that they are 'Great'. They challenge the world and test their eco. and military might with brinkmanship..It is for the world to respond and they are not enjoying the reaction so far.

menj




msg:4231408
 1:43 pm on Nov 17, 2010 (gmt 0)

Regardless of who is right and who is wrong, is it correct for Japan to simply seize the Google user records without any warrant?

bill




msg:4231771
 4:10 am on Nov 18, 2010 (gmt 0)

According to the article there may have been a subpoena or court order asking for the records in question. Apparently Google complied to Japanese law, but they haven't released details, nor do I expect them to.

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