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GoDaddy Withdraws from China
tedster

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tedster us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4104254 posted 6:14 am on Mar 25, 2010 (gmt 0)

The world's largest registrar of internet domain names said Wednesday that it was pulling out of China in the wake of strict new laws that allegedly will increase government surveillance of web sites...

Jones [Christine Jones, general counsel for Go Daddy] said the new Chinese policies required every website owner to submit photographs, business information and individually signed forms, as well as their physical address, email address and telephone numbers.

'We didn't want to act as an agent of the Chinese government,' Jones said. 'We can't let them be strong and us be weak all the time. We just have to stop it, and then we'll start offering .CN domain names again.'

[sify.com...]

I watched a bit of this hearing on C-SPAN - the Congressional-Executive Commission on China (CECC). GoDaddy's spokeperson was asked if Google's situation influenced them. She emphasized that tey made this decision independently and were not influenced by Google's situation in China.

 

tangor

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tangor us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4104254 posted 6:26 am on Mar 25, 2010 (gmt 0)

This is big news. China has sufficient infrastructure and population to cook their own version of the Internet, but I wonder if they can cook it enough to increase their commerce without support from Western companies. Scratching head...

martinibuster

WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4104254 posted 6:26 am on Mar 25, 2010 (gmt 0)

Was this their decision or what their hand forced by the new regulations [webmasterworld.com]?

...new regulations that forbid individual registrations. You now need to be a corporate entity and provide proper identification to apply.


and

...overseas registrars won't be able to register .CN domains "starting with January 6, 2010, 18:00 PM (Beijing Time). The registration stop is planned to be temporarily. According to the Chinese registry, difficulties in handling the comprehensive new application material are the reason for this drastic development.


From the WebmasterWorld post [webmasterworld.com] of December 2009:

...major non-Chinese registrars such as Go Daddy have also removed the ability to register .cn domains from their sites.


If GoDaddy has not been registering .CN domains for almost four months now, how is this news?

tangor

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tangor us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4104254 posted 6:40 am on Mar 25, 2010 (gmt 0)

The pull out is the news... not that they had previously suspended domain registrations. Maybe it is just me (and I freely admit that!), but it looks like the commercial climate in China for Western companies has become more difficult since (and I hope this survives the modghods) Obama's Internet Czar started flexing muscles. Recently it all seems to be politics re: Internet and China...

martinibuster

WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4104254 posted 6:57 am on Mar 25, 2010 (gmt 0)

>>>The pull out is the news...

I agree that it sounds like news. But GoDaddy's announcement from almost four months ago reads like a pull out: "Go Daddy have... removed the ability to register .cn domains from their sites."

If removing the ability to register .cn domains isn't a pull out, then what is it?

[edited by: martinibuster at 7:03 am (utc) on Mar 25, 2010]

tangor

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tangor us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4104254 posted 7:02 am on Mar 25, 2010 (gmt 0)

Agreed... it is the public announcement, following Google, etc. which is the interesting part. I wonder how many other companies will use this point in time to back off from the Chinese economy which is not welcoming to Western interests. And I also need to state that I missed that first announcement, so am a bit behind in the times.

martinibuster

WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4104254 posted 7:15 am on Mar 25, 2010 (gmt 0)

This is another report [domainnamewire.com]:

On January 5, .Cn registry CNNIC announced without warning that non-Chinese registrars were no longer allowed to register .cn domain names to customers. ...It then re-opened registration to registrars such as... Go Daddy, but required them to collect a color headshot photo identification, business identification (including a Chinese business registration number), and physical signed registration forms from the registrant.


The Chinese business registration would be difficult to obtain considering that GoDaddy.com could not be reached within China because it was being blocked. In essence, GoDaddy was pretty much kicked out of selling .CN domains. You can't pull out when you're already out the door.

Nevertheless, contrary to what the title of this discussion says, GoDaddy will continue to do business in China. They will still sell .com domains, for example. They just won't sell .CN domains.

Some media reports today are suggesting that Go Daddy will no longer offer registrations in China. But to be clear, it is merely dropping .cn as a registration option. Chinese citizens can still register unrestricted domain names such as .com through Go Daddy.


This looks less and less like a pull out the more one looks at it.

workingNOMAD

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4104254 posted 11:17 am on Mar 25, 2010 (gmt 0)

I have a really good .cn domain name and a well established website, although the site is not generating too much in terms of income.

I am starting to think I should get rid of it before it is taken off me?

jkovar

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4104254 posted 11:32 am on Mar 25, 2010 (gmt 0)

It's kinda sad really. China is taking steps to control their source-of-spam problem, and everyone is abandoning them for their efforts.

walkman



 
Msg#: 4104254 posted 11:40 am on Mar 25, 2010 (gmt 0)

It's kinda sad really. China is taking steps to control their source-of-spam problem, and everyone is abandoning them for their efforts.


It's not worth for anyone to go back and forth for documents between clients and the Chinese government, especially not for GoDaddy.

And then, China might change the requirements again, making it even harder. Why bother?

Rugles

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4104254 posted 1:14 pm on Mar 25, 2010 (gmt 0)

Bravo GoDaddy! Glad I do business with you folks.

I get the feeling that the Chinese are purposely trying to get these non-Chinese internet companies to leave. To give their companies a closed market.

topr8

WebmasterWorld Senior Member topr8 us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4104254 posted 1:35 pm on Mar 25, 2010 (gmt 0)

Jones [Christine Jones, general counsel for Go Daddy] said the new Chinese policies required every website owner to submit photographs, business information and individually signed forms, as well as their physical address, email address and telephone numbers.


sounds like a good idea to me, i think it should apply around the world, IMHO you shouldn't be able to have an anonymous website.

Alcoholico

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4104254 posted 2:40 pm on Mar 25, 2010 (gmt 0)

Good, too many people in China already, it seems to me that now godaddy wants to take advantage of the same PR stunt google did, godaddy is trying to bite a little bit. Despite of the corruption claims China impresses me because it has shown they enforce their laws no matter how big or threatening the companies can be, good for China, every country and institutucion should be like that, enforce laws equally for all. As an institucion, for instance, google is not able to do that.

StoutFiles

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4104254 posted 2:53 pm on Mar 25, 2010 (gmt 0)

required every website owner to submit photographs, business information and individually signed forms, as well as their physical address, email address and telephone numbers.


Is it bad that I wish every website had to do this now? This would clean up a lot of questionable sites if people knew that their information was common knowledge. I would willingly do this if it was standard.

artek

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4104254 posted 5:20 pm on Mar 25, 2010 (gmt 0)

sounds like a good idea to me, i think it should apply around the world, IMHO you shouldn't be able to have an anonymous website.

So any jerk from any place in the world could send you junk mail, call you on Sunday, spam you with emails and one day maybe even ring your door bell.

It is not about hiding, it is about privacy and personal safety which hard working and honest people want.

It is about domains. Some domains are worth a lot so it is advisable to keep their ownership away from public information for the basic personal protection of the owner.

On the other hand, if you run the honest commercial site it should be your business decision what you want to do about your contact information to build your customerís trust. In some cases you may not need them except email address, in other, you better have 1 800 number, address, your establishment picture, etc.

StoutFiles

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4104254 posted 5:34 pm on Mar 25, 2010 (gmt 0)

o any jerk from any place in the world could send you junk mail, call you on Sunday, spam you with emails and one day maybe even ring your door bell.

It is not about hiding, it is about privacy and personal safety which hard working and honest people want.


In my mind that information would be shown only if the site was being reported for questionable behavior, not displayed for everyone to look at.

hutcheson

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4104254 posted 6:03 pm on Mar 25, 2010 (gmt 0)

>In my mind that information would be shown only if the site was being reported for questionable behavior, not displayed for everyone to look at.

Ah. That explains the confusion.

In the real world, things are very different. In the real world, that information is inappropriately installed by bureaucrats or employees on their own computers ("for company use"), which computers are then lost.

Or stolen by hackers who broke into the server.

Not to mention the little fact that, in large parts of that real world, things like, say, quoting the words of that Jesus dude go beyond "questionable" into the territory of "capital crime".

That is why in, say, U.S. constitutional tradition, there's such a strong presupposition in favor of anonymous publishing. You have to _prove_ that there's a case to answer, before you can even begin to discuss breaching anonymity.

I'm surprised that point even has to be made in this forum, where so many members even do business anonymously (which is, and ought to be, given much less protection than _publishing_ anonymously.(

Rugles

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4104254 posted 6:27 pm on Mar 25, 2010 (gmt 0)

good for China, every country and institutucion should be like that, enforce laws equally for all


You do realize how this all started .. with a severe hacking incident. So I would not be turning them into saints or anything.

topr8

WebmasterWorld Senior Member topr8 us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4104254 posted 7:18 pm on Mar 25, 2010 (gmt 0)

well, i can see the reservations but i still think it should be applied everywhere.

if you are selling online you shouldn't be anonymous - for all kinds of obvious reasons

if you publish information you should still not be anonymous, there is a big difference between a free press and an unaccountable press, yes publish what you want but you must be accountable for what you say. you must also abide by the laws in the country where you publish - you can't be worried about other countries, if they want to filter/censor data from outside their country then let them, why shouldn't they.

furthermore there are whole issues around malware websites and the like, the owners should be prosecuted.

o any jerk from any place in the world could send you junk mail, call you on Sunday, spam you with emails and one day maybe even ring your door bell.


well, there are plenty of ways of avoiding this, to name one the domain could be registered in the name of a limited company and the registered office would be the contact details.

On the other hand, if you run the honest commercial site it should be your business decision what you want to do about your contact information to build your customerís trust


i'm pretty sure visa and mastercard require a physical address to be published on any ecommerce website

You do realize how this all started .. with a severe hacking incident. So I would not be turning them into saints or anything.


yes, i don't consider the chinese saints, especially in business - however i think (and i don't know it to be true, but i imagine a lot of people share this view) that there is industrial espionage and all sorts of shinanegins going on all over the world and the Brits, North Americans, Europeans and Chinese are all at it.

Alcoholico

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4104254 posted 8:13 pm on Mar 25, 2010 (gmt 0)

You do realize how this all started .. with a severe hacking incident. So I would not be turning them into saints or anything.


Yes, I do. I'm not saying the Chinese are saints, far from that, googlers aren't either. If I go to Mongolia, I'll have to abide by Mongolia's laws, whether I like it or not, that's the theory, the reality is so much different when you have big money and big threatens. That's what I applaud, China's fiber on that matter. Hacking incidents have happened to myself many times, especially from India, should I not eat curry any more? Oh, wait, there's one going on now right now from Russia, no more vodka for me...
Google is just Google, a parasitic company that has been fed for years with the blood and work of webmasters who have put contents on google's plate for them to suck, and its desire to get rid of those who feed it once while still profit from them grows everyday, not saints for me.

artek

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4104254 posted 8:21 pm on Mar 25, 2010 (gmt 0)

topr8, GoDaddy's privacy managing site DomainbyProxy.com has this on the home page:
Display your domain name Ė not your personal information.
Did you know that for each domain name you register, anyone - anywhere, anytime - can find out your name, home address, phone number and email address?
The law requires that the personal information you provide with every domain you register be made public in the "WHOIS" database. Your identity becomes instantly available - and vulnerable - to spammers, scammers, prying eyes and worse.
Getting a Private Registration will:
- Stop domain-related spam
- Prevent harassers & stalkers
- End data mining
- Protect your family's privacy
- And more!

But GoDaddy also says:
If you are in law enforcement, click here
For our subpoena policies, click here

And you get this:
Domains By Proxy Civil Subpoena Policy

Domains By Proxy's Privacy Policy prohibits the release of customer or account information without express permission from the customer, except when required by law, to conform to the edicts of the law, or to comply with legal process properly served on Domains By Proxy or one of its affiliates.

If you seek the identity or account information of a Domains By Proxy customer in connection with a civil legal matter, you must fax, mail, or serve Domains By Proxy with a valid subpoena.


As you see they have implemented very sound interpretation of the basic laws of the majority of democratic countries.

China does not give a d... about spamers or hackers, they just want to have access to every bit of information on the web.

[edited by: artek at 8:25 pm (utc) on Mar 25, 2010]

martinibuster

WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4104254 posted 8:21 pm on Mar 25, 2010 (gmt 0)

I'm not saying the Chinese are saints, far from that, googlers aren't either.


FWIW, most of the Googler's I've spent time with are decent upstanding people.

JS_Harris

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4104254 posted 10:40 pm on Mar 25, 2010 (gmt 0)

Most of the Chinese people I've spent time with are too, this is just a bad mix of politics/business and doesn't reflect on individuals.

Right now Democracy isn't looking so hot which also doesn't reflect on individuals. The real problem is that the majority of every dollar spent by government in the US is borrowed so you can't blame China for wanting nothing to do with western practices.

martinibuster

WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4104254 posted 3:44 am on Mar 26, 2010 (gmt 0)

The real problem is that the majority of every dollar spent by government in the US is borrowed so you can't blame China for wanting nothing to do with western practices.


Heh. Guess which is the top country that the U.S. is borrowing from? [ustreas.gov] :)

I agree though that democracy isn't the only way to govern, and that there are many ways of governing that still give a vote to the people. And it's not our place to impose our will on them as it is for China to tell us what to do. But it is within our place to decide if we want to participate in their system or not. Which brings us back to Godaddy. GoDaddy was pushed out of China, they didn't pull out. They're pulling a Pee-Wee Herman by picking up their dropped bicycle and saying, "I meant to do that."

tntpower

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4104254 posted 4:26 am on Mar 26, 2010 (gmt 0)

Did GoDaddy step into China?

Do not tell me being able to register .CN domain is equivalent to enter China.

topr8

WebmasterWorld Senior Member topr8 us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4104254 posted 8:01 am on Mar 27, 2010 (gmt 0)

artek

yeah i get your points - although i've read many vehement attacks on goDaddy over the years here on this site, i don't know anything about them as a company, so i have no opinion about the procedures they have in place and how safe the data is.

however i still feel that the owners of domains should be publically identifiable and it's a point of view that not everyone disagrees with.

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